Desperately need help in helping an adult victim of online sexual predation/grooming/narcissistic abuse

OatyBoaty · ‎05-04-2022

Hi,

I can't summarize this situation if I tried, but I have attempted to condense it as much as possible (13 posts...lol)

My ex-girlfriend of 4.5yrs (who I will call Sara) a 27y/o from NSW, Australia has been successfully groomed by an online sexual predator (21y/o from Laredo, TX) that she has never met last year, and his abuse continues. (I will call him Miguel), and I need help stopping it.

I was (un)fortunate enough to have experience with almost exactly this scenario before before with some female friends about 13yrs ago, so immediately saw all the red flags and identified what was going on after the break-up, otherwise I would have up and left her the moment she broke up with me (as a result of his influence), and viewed the whole thing as "she monkey branched, she cheated, she's a horrible person, don't look back", I am staying and fighting because the women I knew who suffered at their hands of online predation engaged in suicidal behaviours...1 died by suicide, the other lived to tell the tale, in great detail. I hoped I would never have to have that experience...but here I am, in the midst of it.

He groomed her over a 2 month period, caused her to 'break up' with our mutual friends, and mistreat her family. Her poor behavior created a divide between her and I, and since she had no friends, she went to him, and he manufactured a break-up (which I've since found out she WASN'T wanting to do, but did it because at the time, she was angry), then immediately (within 3 days...possibly less) told her he loved her and started love-bombing her, and isolating her from everyone, right as we had JUST moved into a house on our own that her parents owned after living together at her parents place for the last 2.5yrs in a DLUG that we renovated.

9 days after the breakup, she questioned his intentions in a really naive and silly way (I snooped messaged to find out what I was dealing with, I had never snooped in my life), effectively telling him that she wishes she didn't care what people said about him, but she does, and is hoping he will clear up her doubts, before asking him if he is manipulating her (doh!).
2 days after that, he sexualized their relationship online.

I lived with her for 2 months in the new house, it was hell.
Whenever we got close, he told her things like "Be careful of yourself around him" and "You had a moment of weakness". He would match her hours of sleep, or cut his sleep so he could be with her more (almost 24/7), and hoover her with love bombing.

OatyBoaty · ‎12-04-2022

Yeah, you are right about all of that.
So every time she said "I don't know", I started to ask closed questions, to try and get her to think about why she doesn't know, and as a result, I got her to open up a bit more...but to be honest, I was so exhausted, and so over the Miguel Mode stuff that I didn't really even want to be around her.
Plus her behavior was just so confusing, especially when she said that I make her cry every single day (despite me being in no contact for ~8 months), after telling me the previous day that Miguel made her cry every day from things that he says or does...it was difficult to not argue and get angry with her attitude...it honestly feels like dealing with a 12yr old spoiled brat when she's in this mode.

The fact that she has seemingly shunned myself, and mutual friends now just doesn't really look very promising, plus I know that she has been spending almost all of her free time talking to Miguel online, Face-timing, playing games etc. He adjusted his sleep cycle to match hers (except when he works) and she doesn't ever really have any time alone unless he's at work, but even then, he messages her any opportunity while he's working. When we first spoke, she expressed how suffocated she felt, but the next day it was like this wasn't a problem.
I understand that victims who are hoovered will typically behave like this for a variety of reasons, and when I asked her why she had stopped playing APEX with mutual friends, or ignored them etc in the last few months, she said that Miguel had expressed that he doesn't like when she plays games or does activities with other people when he's not working (yet there's no problem when he spends time with his friends)...which frustrated her as she felt like she can't have any friends without upsetting him...
It has now been 11 days since she said she would let me know when she's free to play APEX. She is seemingly shutting her mutual friends out now too, so I suspect that she is doubling down on appeasing him (or SHE is the one who is the narc).
My birthday is end of month, so I may hold out from messaging her until after that, but I just don't know...I feel like there's not going to be any more chances to talk to her when she is thinking straight.
But the longer I, and mutual friends leave it, the more Miguel will continue love bombing her, and it only takes one really good day for him to suggest buying those tickets to Australia again, and then it's almost too late to stop it.

therising · ‎13-04-2022

Hi OatyBoaty

Sounds like she might be largely going with her feelings. If this is the case, every time her feelings change her mind will change. I like to imagine a kind of spectrum where at one end you have pure feeling and at the other there's pure analysis (without feeling/s). At times, I'll 100% trust my feelings like if something simply feels 'off', at other times I'll go for pure analysis (emotional detachment) in order to make sense of things and on occasion it'll be somewhere in the middle. All depends on the situation.

If she's going largely with feelings, it first pays to identify what feelings really are. Taken me some years to come to realise that feelings are more than just 'things'. Pretty much every experience, every person, every thought, everything we imagine and so on has a physical/energetic 'feel' to it. Joyful excitement has a feel to it. What's depressing has a feel to it. Judgement has a certain feel to it. Thoroughly inspirational genuine people in life have a certain feel about them. Most of us will want to ramp up certain feelings and get a real natural high out of them. At other times we'll want to shut down certain feelings, typically the ones that are uncomfortable or challenging.

If she doesn't like the feeling of 'judgement', she'll detach from anyone who leads her to feel judged. If she thrives on the vibe of 'complete acceptance', she'll gravitate toward anyone who leads her to feel this emotion or energy in motion, in her body. While judgement tends to lead us to feel what 'down' feels like, complete acceptance typically leads us to a high. Of course, 'down' isn't always a bad thing, such as with coming back down to earth (out of a destructive or irrational high).

Would you say she's only interested in feeling what leads her to be on a high, shutting everything else out? If this is the case, maybe you could help her better tune into and trust her feelings. If she feels there's something off about this guy or she feels a sense of repulsion or if she feels elements of mistrust towards him (she feels he has an agenda), get her to start wondering about why she's feeling these things. Appeal to her intuitive nature. While she might resent you for leading her to doubt herself, flip her perspective: What you're really doing is getting her to exercise and trust her intuition.

That Other Guy · ‎13-04-2022

I think you've had a lot of good advice already. You're certainly an incredible person and a great friend. I agree that she sounds like she has low self esteem, i know what that's like. My advice is, try to get a mental health plan from a doctor for her to see a counselor. They will discuss her situation in a safe environment and help her examine and unpack what this guy is doing, what it seems to point towards, and if it's what's best for her. She needs to understand what's going on, in order to see the steps she needs to take to make herself safe.

She's VERY lucky to have you in her life.

OatyBoaty · ‎13-04-2022

When I talked to her on that first time on 19th March, when she was listening to what I was saying, asking questions and telling me about the abuse. I suggested that she talk to her family about this, but more importantly, to talk to a professional, someone without bias, someone who is NOT their ex boyfriend of 4.5yrs, someone who didn't just watch Youtube videos and read articles and studies for 9 months, but someone who has been dealing with helping abuse victims for potentially DECADES of their life, and have dedicated their profession to doing so.
She declined seeing a professional, and said that she understands everything I am saying, it all makes sense, and she trusts me, but just doesn't know how to end things with him, as she didn't want to hurt him, and she's so tired of hurting people, and admitted that one day she could be like she was on that day, but then other days, she could be in Miguel Mode.
I had iterated to her multiple times during the 7 hours together that she would be best to speak to a professional, rather than me, and she would just say she doesn't need to, that she knows she has to leave him, but doesn't know how.
The fact that she is just flat out ignoring her friends to the point where they are annoyed and don't want to try with her now, and the fact that she is ignoring me, avoiding me, giving me the cold shoulder too, just doesn't really bode well, and raises question as to if SHE is the one who just used us for the attention and validation.
I'm struggling with giving her the benefit of the doubt here...because I feel like once Miguel is out of her life, and she focuses on healing herself, she's going to find herself again, because right now, this is far from who I remember her being.

My assumption is that Miguel has successfully hoovered her, and will not leave her alone. Typically, when it comes to attraction, this is a huge red flag, it turns most people off, but since I was her first relationship partner, she has zero experience with this kind of thing it seems, and there is every likelihood that she is taking Miguel's constant attention as some amazing form of love, when in fact, it's extremely controlling and abusive, even though I pointed out to her what this behavior ACTUALLY is.

I don't think I'll get another chance to talk to her.
If I reach out, I fear she will shun me again.
And she's most likely going to be talking with Miguel, who will likely tell her what to say/do in response to me, like he has done before.

That Other Guy · ‎13-04-2022

Sometimes people can mistake attention for love, and think the controlling behaviour is normal. Honestly, if I were you, knowing I'd done all I could, I'd try to push her towards therapy when I had the chance, I'd make sure those close to her understand the peril she is in, and then I'd accept there's sadly not much more you can do until she wakes up and decides to get out. You don't know what seeds you've planted and when they may bear fruit

OatyBoaty · ‎14-04-2022

Yeah, I think I will message her after the weekend is over, or maybe even tomorrow, just to see if she wants to meet up and go for a walk again.
If I get the cold shoulder...that's what I'm not too sure of how to handle. I feel like I will be frustrated, and want to call her out on the avoidance, but that's a mistake that only pushes people away, it creates drama.
I wanted to do an ultimatum video where I tell her what Miguel is doing and what I think she should do, and that we should meet up and talk about it, but if I don't hear from her by a certain date, then I have to exit her life completely, I just can't handle it anymore...but ultimatums aren't good either, in dating OR this situation... so I feel kind of stuck.
Typically, in the world of dating, if someone ignores you or flakes on you or makes meeting up difficult, I would just forget about contacting them again, I don't have the time or energy for mind games or "tests" or anything like that, so I just continue focusing on my business and my own life and typically the girl would reach out to me within a week or 2, like they are testing to see if I will chase, but this is a tough one, because I'm not trying to get back with her, it's not dating, but it feels like those same principles apply, with the exception being that the more time she spends with Miguel, the more she gets hoovered.
I will reach out I think, but I feel like I need to time it so that she's spending time with her brother(s), so I may need to contact her younger brother to talk to him first, as he occassionally spends Sunday's with her, and contact her when he's with her then, so that I know she's not being influenced by Miguel.
Her parents I'll contact maybe a little later as a last resort, as they seem to like taking matters into their own hands, and completely messing things up, despite my advice on how to handle the situation.
I will try to have a conversation with them, rather than text messages. I'd like to speak to her family about the situation, so that even if Miguel comes to Australia, and I bow out (I don't think I could handle it anymore once he's here), at least her family are fully aware of the situation (at least from my perspective), and can hopefully try getting her to open up to them, so that she can make a smart decision.
I think the fact that I am her ex just complicates my involvement significantly, so it's better that she speak to a professional (even though she declined strongly), or her family.

therising · ‎15-04-2022

Hi OatyBoaty

You're such an incredibly thoughtful person, such a solid friend. I hope the reflective conversation the 2 of you have a little ways down the track includes her saying to you something along the lines of 'If it wasn't for you, I don't how far off track I would have gone with that guy and how many regrets I would have to live with'.

Hope you're looking after yourself and taking care of your stress levels.

OatyBoaty · ‎18-04-2022

I reached out yesterday afternoon at 4:20pm for Easter, to wish her a Happy Easter, and ask if she wanted to meet up for a walk and talk, and I sent her a cute cat pic of one of the cats I tamed and rescued for the both of us (back when I was with her), since back then, we didn't want kids (but since Miguel came into the picture, she wanted kids), so we adopted some wild cats and they are absolutely beautiful ragdolls with the most cheeky but loving nature.

She didn't respond until about 7:15am this morning to agree to meeting up, but also said she had to give me back a hard drive I gave her, which had all of our photo's, videos, memories on it. I gave her that hard drive the 2nd day we met up, because I knew she didn't have any of that stuff, it was all on my PC.
She said she will find out her roster tonight, but should be able to meet up this week some time.

I'm HOPING she backed up everything from the hard drive, but I suspect not...I don't want it back, it's hers to keep, and if she wants to throw it out, that's her choice.

I have to make sure that the goal of her and I meeting is to create a positive memory/experience, to just have fun, have a good, positive time, and enjoy the sunshine, enjoy the fresh air etc, because she doesn't do that anymore, she used to be adventurous, we both were, but once the breakup occurred and she monkey branched to Miguel, she admitted to just staying indoors pretty much 24/7, she doesn't walk, doesn't do fitness stuff, doesn't play piano, doesn't play guitar, doesn't do anything but work 2 or 3 times per week, buy groceries, and the rest of the time she spends with Miguel online, her words were "I don't have a life anymore".

There is every chance that she will try to ask a more serious question, again asking "WHY I am staying in contact with her and wanting to spend time with her", but it has to be up to her to ask that question, because if I start blabbing about my thoughts on the situation, then that's just going to be met with a wall of resistance unless she is wanting to hear my thoughts.

I've looked at some stories on Youtube from victims of narcissistic abuse, and online predatory abuse and listening to them was like listening to Sarah that first day of meeting up...I can only hope that she gets back to that emotional state again where she starts relying on her gut instinct again, not Miguel, not her guilt, not her cognitive dissonance, not her trauma bonded emotions.

I need to be prepared for this meeting.