Desperately need help in helping an adult victim of online sexual predation/grooming/narcissistic abuse

[OatyBoaty]

Hi,

I can't summarize this situation if I tried, but I have attempted to condense it as much as possible (13 posts...lol)

My ex-girlfriend of 4.5yrs (who I will call Sara) a 27y/o from NSW, Australia has been successfully groomed by an online sexual predator (21y/o from Laredo, TX) that she has never met last year, and his abuse continues. (I will call him Miguel), and I need help stopping it.

I was (un)fortunate enough to have experience with almost exactly this scenario before before with some female friends about 13yrs ago, so immediately saw all the red flags and identified what was going on after the break-up, otherwise I would have up and left her the moment she broke up with me (as a result of his influence), and viewed the whole thing as "she monkey branched, she cheated, she's a horrible person, don't look back", I am staying and fighting because the women I knew who suffered at their hands of online predation engaged in suicidal behaviours...1 died by suicide, the other lived to tell the tale, in great detail. I hoped I would never have to have that experience...but here I am, in the midst of it.

He groomed her over a 2 month period, caused her to 'break up' with our mutual friends, and mistreat her family. Her poor behavior created a divide between her and I, and since she had no friends, she went to him, and he manufactured a break-up (which I've since found out she WASN'T wanting to do, but did it because at the time, she was angry), then immediately (within 3 days...possibly less) told her he loved her and started love-bombing her, and isolating her from everyone, right as we had JUST moved into a house on our own that her parents owned after living together at her parents place for the last 2.5yrs in a DLUG that we renovated.

9 days after the breakup, she questioned his intentions in a really naive and silly way (I snooped messaged to find out what I was dealing with, I had never snooped in my life), effectively telling him that she wishes she didn't care what people said about him, but she does, and is hoping he will clear up her doubts, before asking him if he is manipulating her (doh!).
2 days after that, he sexualized their relationship online.

I lived with her for 2 months in the new house, it was hell.
Whenever we got close, he told her things like "Be careful of yourself around him" and "You had a moment of weakness". He would match her hours of sleep, or cut his sleep so he could be with her more (almost 24/7), and hoover her with love bombing.
 

[Sophie_M]

Hi OatyBoaty, 

We are really sorry to hear that you are going through this at the moment. We can hear that you are a caring and empathetic person who is looking to support others. We also really want to make sure you are looking after yourself. 

Safety is most important, if you think that you, or anyone is unsafe please all 000 straight away as this can be an emergency. 

If you want to talk to us about this experience, you can always call on 1300 22 4636 or, if you prefer, our friends at Lifeline on 13 11 14. 

We also suggest checkign out Relationships Australia to find specfic resources realted to Domestic Violence that may be helpful.

You can also check out 1800 RESPECT who have excellent support for those who may be experiencing abuse. 

Thank you for sharing your story with us today, we hope that was a valuable experience for you. Please know that if you ever need support we are here for you. 

Kind regards, 

Sophie M

[geoff]

Hello OatyBoaty, I can't tell you what to do, but can suggest ideas, but this isn't not only being safe but also predatorial by someone who certainly does not know Sarah but pretends he does and promises her things in talking online and trying to find out any snippets he can build on.

He may have her mesmerised with ideas that aren't true which he does online, promising her the world with false accusations convincing her to believe in, which is totally different than living with someone you love.

Are you able to convince her that she needs to see her doctor, because what a doctor tells someone makes more sense than another person trying to tell them, unless they personally very close.

What needs to be kept an eye on, is make sure she isn't scammed by this person, pretending to be her friend and wanting money or anything else.

A concern.

Geoff.

[therising]

Hi OatyBoaty

You're so obviously caring, to be looking for a variety of ways to help your ex. She's so lucky to have someone watching out for her.

I've found, there's nothing quite like instilling a sense of wonder in a person to lead them to begin opening their mind. To lead or guide someone to wonder constructively, without directly telling them what to do can feel frustratingly slow yet it can prove highly effective at the end of the day.

A few examples

• Do you wonder why or how he's led you to become so isolated from everyone?
• Do you wonder why he's suddenly talking about sexually based stuff?
• Do you wonder what it would look like to naturally develop self esteem without relying largely on him? You could even suggest helping her look into that, self development. If she's potentially a mind/body/spirit sort of girl, there's so much out there

Sounds like you have led her to wonder at some point, otherwise she wouldn't have questioned him. Could you lead her to wonder more, in a variety of ways. People tend to wake up faster the more you lead them to wonder.

You're a good friend 🙂

[OatyBoaty]

One of the things that Sara was obsessed with and still is obsessed with, is a favourite video game called APEX: Legends. Miguel HATED the game, and yet during the grooming process, played with her all the time.
Whenever her and I would get close, there was a very noticeable cycle he went through with her, which he continues to this day.

Before I knew I was going to move out of the house, I decided to try and have limited contact with her....stupidly I asked if she wanted to be left alone, and she said yes....but to my surprise, she didn't like this, because after only a few days of this, she got furious over the most simple thing, something that wasn't even more fault, and we had a bit of an argument as a result (I didn't know that this fury was a GOOD thing).
The limited contact continued, and she kept finding ways to interact with me.

Her parents gave her renovation work to do, so she could get some more money, and in this time, I did some more snooping, I wanted to go right back to the beginning, even further actually, to find out EVERYTHING I could possibly find to stop Miguel from destroying her mind.
What I found was shocking, I didn't understand fully at the time how the narcissistic abuse dynamic actually worked between victim and abuser, and so I was furious at what I found out (more sexualization, her love bombing him just as much as he was love bombing her).

She kept trying to get close to me, and a few days later, she wanted to talk about what I am going to do (stay or leave).
We had a 3 hour talk which at first was filled with anger, but I stood my ground, remained calm and stoic, and she eventually opened up to me about everything, saying she felt trapped, alone, like she couldn't think for herself anymore, she didn't recognize herself anymore, she regrets everything, hates herself, everyone hates her, she wants everything to be normal again, she wants US back, and didn't want me to leave and she was bawling her eyes out, shaking like a leaf while squeezing me tight while collapsed in my arms.
Sure, cheaters do this eventually too when the grass isn't greener, and technically, she cheated, but she did so while intoxicated by an extremely manipulative individual, so I can 'forgive' it.

Unfortunately, she spoke with him straight after, and within 20mins, that pattern happened again, she was hoovered again.
The next 3 days she treated me (and my best mate) like I didn't exist. I got furious on the 3rd night and decided to move out.

[therising]

Hi OatyBoaty

She sounds like a very open minded person. By the way, being open minded can be both a good thing and a not so good thing, depending on the circumstances. While a closed minded person will typically keep their mind closed around one idea or one particular belief system, an open minded person's nature can resemble watching a tennis match play out. Back and forward, back and forward, between one player and another. Could help explain why she's often in 2 minds about things.

A strategic open minded person is a different matter. While they keep an open mind, they're careful with what they let into it. They won't let anyone lead them to believe in what doesn't sit right. Kind of like them analysing all the information given before reaching a conclusion that makes the most sense. Whatever makes the most sense is allowed in, as a new belief/perspective. Dangerous stuff when you pair an open minded person with a narcissist. A narcissist is a strategist. They'll mess with an open minded person something shocking. They'll plant thoughts in their head and lead them to believe they're their thoughts (the open minded person's thoughts).

Perhaps approaching things in a complimenting way might help your ex see things differently. Saying something to her like 'You know, I never realised what an incredibly beautiful open minded person you are. This is a trait I wish more people had. What I really want you to consider is how you'd work toward become a highly conscious open minded person so you could see where people are coming from, whether they're serving themselves or serving you'.

While this may sound like you're manipulating her in some way, it's a constructive form of manipulation as opposed to it being a destructive one. If you can see manipulation as 'reforming' someone's way of thinking, in a way that's going to serve them well, it's not a bad thing. I've had people in my life who have manipulated my way of thinking to the point where I've been able to move forward constructively. I remain thankful to them and their ways. They've led me to evolve beyond destructive ways and perspectives.

Tell her the truth, she's open minded. Add to that truth, she's wonderful (full of wonder). Suggest she be careful with who leads her to wonder.

[OatyBoaty]

It's hard to condense all the posts, there's a lot, but basically I moved out of the house with her, found out 2.5 months later that she missed me (her mum told me), then ran into her at her new job and she broke down crying and ran away from her register, but she never reached out to me.
I reached out on the 13th March, met up on the 19th where she opened up to be about everything that was going on, the abuse with him and how isolated she feels, etc.
I educated her on what I knew and she was very receptive. She cried the whole time, and I was with her for about 7hrs. She was about to end things with him.
That night after I left her house, she spoke with him, didn't tell him that we talked about all of this, and he asked her if she wants to even be with her anymore.
The next day we met up to make an exit plan, but she was hoovered by him again, she had changed into what I call "Miguel mode", like a 12yr old who was smitten. She was defending him, rationalizing his behavior, excusing him, looking at her own actions and then saying things like "What if he changes though?" "I don't want to hurt him", and then "I think in order to make a decision, I need to meet him" to which I said if he comes to Australia, I'm going, I can't take it anymore. She wasn't happy about that and said "What if he comes here and we don't get intimate and I decide I don't want him? Why can't we still be friends?".
I explained to her the damage he has inflicted on our lives, and everyone who has been affected, and if she believes he is a good guy after everything she told me the day before, then I need to leave, I can't deal with it anymore.
She was upset by this.
After this day, I messaged her to see how she was feeling, and she ignored me.
We met up the next Sunday with 2 mutual friends, at her house, to remind her of good times, and it was fun, but something was off.
Since then, I didn't contact her for 5 days, then I got COVID, so had to contact her. I talked about playing APEX with her, to which she said she would be more than happy, so long as I get another person to play as well (otherwise Miguel will join). I organized it, she said she won't be free for the rest of the week and will let me know when she can play, but then the next 3 days played almost 24/7 with Miguel...and it has now been another 9 days, she has ignored an invite from a mutual friend to join us in playing the game...
Now I am starting to wonder if it was all an act for the sake of attention 😞

[geoff]

Hello OatyBoaty, what these people do ( Miguel) is to hope that Sarah has a wek spot where they can home in on it and give her the support, the satisfaction and fake promises that they believe people like Sarah need, unfortunately, it isn't the truth, how can it be, because he doesn't know her and hasn't lived with her, he is only trying to entice her into believing he is her soul mate, but they have never met and it's impossible for them to know whether they would be a match or for her to finally find out it was only a hoax, with the proviso of giving him money.

I have seen many people in newspapers and on TV say exactly the same as what Sarah is currently caught up in, left being broke and not knowing what's just happened.

I know you don't want this to happen, and caught in a difficult situation and ask her to look at this 'romance scammer tactics'.

Best wishes.

Geoff.

[OatyBoaty]

Yeah, that's something I spoke to her about; She has NO IDEA what he is capable of once he is here, and the manipulation will be worse when they are with one another for real.
The day that she was in and out of Miguel Mode (day 2 of meeting up), she expressed that the thought of being physical/intimate with him makes her physically ill and disgusted (he is...NOT her type physically, he's very unhealthy, very unfit, shorter than her too which she doesn't like), so I said to her something like "Then why would you want him to come here? Ultimately, once he is here, even if you feel revolted by him in that way, there is a sense of obligation that you may feel to appease him, and he will likely play upon that...he worked for months, JUST so he could save up THOUSANDS of dollars so that he can ENDURE a long 24hrs of travelling to get here. He will likely use those things to guilt you into doing SOMETHING for him sexually, and you KNOW that is what he wants, he has been pushy sexually, to the point where you two keep having fights about it, and the sexual talk and fantasy talks have ramped up in the lead up to him potentially coming here....if you know he is coming here for sex, and you don't want that, why would you want him to come here?"
She also expressed multiple times 10 months ago when this all started, and now that "I KNOW it's not going to work with him" (although he convinced her that he has a plan...), which I raised with her again "If you know it's not going to work? Why continue this?" to which she just sheepishly said "I don't know".
I asked if she thinks it is because there's no other options, or if she feels like she deserves this for what happened between us, and she agreed that it feels like she's not going to meet anybody else (I had to refrain from putting myself as an "option" here).
I raised the issue of her wanting kids, and asked her "If you know it's not going to work with him, and you don't want to be physical with him, and he lives on the other side of the world, plus everything you told me yesterday, then you need to leave, its not healthy for you, you're living off baked beans, you're miserable, he makes you cry every day, lonely, isolated, it's time to take back your life, and we are all here to help you"
She then went on the attack and said "YOU make me cry every single day because of the doubts you created at the start", and this kind of behavior repeated that day 😞
 

[therising]

Hi OatyBoaty

I think low self esteem definitely plays a part in how we see the future. You can have someone with low self esteem seeing the future in a certain way that can almost be bordering on sad and depressing yet the moment their self esteem begins to rise, their vision of the future changes.

If this is the case with your ex, that her perception presents itself through low self esteem, perhaps the only way you'll lead her to see things differently is through raising her self esteem levels.

You mention having asked her why she's continuing with this if she knows it's not going to work. Her response of 'I don't know' is worth questioning. This is actually one of my husband's most common responses when I'm asking him to be more conscious, put more thought into something. 'I don't know' as a standard response can actually trigger me a little at times. As I say to him 'In your life, it's your job to know why you say or think or do the things you do, so that you can evolve through such knowledge'. It's far easier to say 'I don't know' than it is to understand the reasons behind our thoughts, beliefs, choices, behaviours and actions. In some cases, 'I don't know' can stop a can of worms or a Pandora's box from opening up. Easier to say 'I don't know' rather than look into some confronting factors in our life, perhaps from our past.

I imagine, if you're looking for answers and looking for her to be more conscious, her shutting down her ability to be more conscious with 'I don't know' is going to trigger you to absolute frustration. You could try asking her if she really wants to know why she's taking this course of action. If she says she doesn't want to know then that's on her. Sounds a bit harsh but getting your answer will give you a sense of direction - whether you persist in helping her or not. If she specifically doesn't want you helping her explore what lies behind her reasons, you could always suggest she speak with someone else, before taking a course of action she could come to regret.

From my experience, you can't push someone to be more conscious if they have absolute zero desire to be more conscious. It'll just send you insane with frustration. We can get to a point where we have to begin looking after our own sanity and well being.