Suicidality and perimenopause

[Eagle Ray]

Has anyone else experienced severe suicidality in relation to perimenopause? Did anything particular help? There is apparently a strong association for some women.

 I had a major drop in oestrogen a year ago resulting in severe anxiety/depression/suicidal ideation then. It’s re-occurring now. I have complicating factors of c-ptsd and complicated grief. Saturday was the anniversary of my mother’s sudden and distressing death. I was extremely bad on Friday and early Saturday.

I’ve been calling helplines and had some practical help. It helps regulate me for a few hours then I start to disintegrate again. It’s a feeling of totally failing apart. I do have a psych appointment on Thursday and I’ve booked a counselling appointment with the Australian menopause society as well.

HRT may help but I have to look at how it will interact with my liver disease which can be a complicating factor. It’s a rare disease and not well understood or even known about by most medical practitioners. I just feel totally overwhelmed.

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I am so disgusted with the way you have been treated by general practitioners, I was under the impression that they all took an oath to "first do no harm". Shame on the lecturers for making jokes about anyone who is suffering, it goes to show just how backward western medicine actually is.

I have just done a bit of searching on the internet for you and because I don't know what state you live in, I am going to give you some search terms in the hope you are able to find a solution to your lack of medical support.

I understand you feeling at a loss after all those experiences with ignorant GP's, so let's find someone who actually cares about your health and not what they were told to believe about your health.

Australian Integrative Medicine Association - has a find a practitioner button at the top right of the home page

I suggest just using minimal search terms to begin, then scroll down and on the left I ticked the chronic inflammation box at the bottom of the filters and a few doctors came up. There are other options in the filters which you may think are more appropriate to you.

National Institute of Integrative Medicine - scroll down the page to see options for practitioners (this one is in Victoria so not sure if they would be suited to you but may have the ability to refer to clinics in other states. I only briefly looked at this site, so perhaps reading a couple of pages may give more insight as to wether they have connections with interstate clinics)

(this is a general search term) holistic medicine practitioner (insert your state) australia

I hope this information will be helpful to you in finding the right doctor who will actually listen to you and actually try to help you. Clearly not all doctors are as interested in their patients welfare as they should be.

Thinking of you with great care,

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Dear indigo,

Thank you so much for making an effort to help. I want to stress that the GP in question is not a bad person. But it is the nature of medical training combined even with societal attitudes to certain groups of people. Those living with fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome know what I’m talking about. There is a severe mind and body separation where you are seen to have either a physically real illness with a defined aetiology, or a mental illness that is somehow connected to a detached mind. The fact the two are one and the same in relation to pretty much everything is just not how conventional medicine operates. So as I am ascribed with fibromyalgia (and that has a bad rap as a psychological illness by so many practitioners), when I am identifying symptoms I know are something different and outside regular fibro symptoms I am not believed.

 I know you already understand those things though, hence why I know you are drawn to integrative medicine. I’m in WA and I have an excellent naturopath. He is the one health practitioner who has heard me. In the first session he spent about 1 hour 40 minutes with me. He did advanced microbiome testing and is strongly evidence based. He found a major overgrowth of a pathogenic bacteria and intestinal permeability. He prescribed supplements directly relevant to the aetiology of the liver condition which he researched. It worked. The next microbiome test showed the intestinal permeability had healed and the pathogenic bacteria was greatly reduced. My liver readings stabilised and normalised for the first time. But no GP has wanted to look at those results. The liver specialist just says “my job is done now” because the liver results normalised. But when I have become very ill again, and I know the liver disease pattern, no one can hear me, except the naturopath. But his voice is invalid to the DSP. The liver specialist does not invalidate him and they actually work in the same clinic, but at the same time does not look at the microbiome results and discuss them with me and has quickly dismissed my questions. So really, apart from the naturopath, I’m on my own. I feel I have gone down every path I can now. I am finding it really hard to feel safe anywhere.

 I read a study a few years ago of doctors and rheumatologists who treat fibromyalgia patients. Some of their comments were extremely prejudiced and included statements such as “they should all be shot”. In another study of a hierarchy of illnesses (what doctors view as valid and their perception of patients), cirrhosis was at the very bottom because of its association with addiction and fibromyalgia was second from bottom. Even forms of cancer were rated differently based on the type.

All of this massively triggers my complex trauma as well, the lifelong feeling and experience of not being heard. I am always respectful to doctors, but have been treated in awful ways multiple times. The GP yesterday was not rude or awful, just disbelieving. I think it’s just the straw breaking the camel’s back. I am so exhausted. I’m drifting into dissociation. I’ve been awake since 3am. I went early to my favourite place by the ocean, just trying to find some solace and comfort.

Thank you for caring 🙏

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I totally understand what you are saying and a GP doesn't need to be a bad person to be ignorant of certain areas of ill health. Not listening and not believing is unacceptable in my book, as a GP they don't know everything there is to know about how a body will behave under a certain set of conditions, they only think they know, a big difference between the two.

The info I put in the last post is not for finding a naturopath but for finding a GP that has broken away from the brainwashing that medical teaching institutions put them through during their training. Please at least have a look at them before deciding. I am really glad you at least have the naturopath who listens to you, but you need a GP who will do the same and work in co-operation with each other for the betterment of your health.

I hope you are finding some peace in nature today.

I really do want to help you in any way that I can,

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Dear indigo,

Thank you so much. I meant to also mention I have tried two integrative GPs in the past couple of years. The first seemed ok on the first visit and I was hopeful but on the second visit dismissed everything as anxiety. Yes, anxiety is present, but there are many other things going on too. She totally dismissed the autoimmune liver disease as valid to the Centrelink 3 month medical certificate I was applying for. I was applying for this at the advice of my disability employment agency. Only putting anxiety without context and explanation meant the certificate application was rejected. At the end of the consultation she then admitted she knew nothing about the liver disease I have and asked me to explain it to a student doctor who was sitting in on the consultation. It made no difference to her decision to only put anxiety on the form and I can only imagine what the student thought about the interaction.

The second integrative doctor I saw was competitive with the naturopath. She wanted me to switch to me only buying supplements from her. I naively thought she may want to work in with the naturopath to actually help me. I soon realised her main interests were cosmetic medicine and injectable nutrients in the context of “lifestyle” medicine. She was primarily interested in patients who could pay a lot for these expensive procedures. I realised I was really irrelevant to her and she showed no interest in seeing the results from the testing I’d done with the naturopath.

So my experience has been so far that integrative doctors have been no better. I’m sure some are but I am exhausted from telling my story. I’ve travelled some distance away from my town to see these people too. It is too painful to keep being vulnerable and trying to explain things. I emailed my psychologist very early this morning in an activated state. I see her tomorrow but I’m almost beyond trying to explain to her too. I am beginning to even dissociate from that. I can only exist at the moment. I have found helplines supportive. I found one trauma-informed GP online that someone from Blue Knot also located, but she is no longer taking new clients. I think I am, as I have always felt, outside the human world. Attempts to reach into it have not been safe. I do understand people who become hermits. I actually used to fantasise about that as a teenager.

 I just exist now. I can only go one step at a time. I just have my inner parenting self-care system to rely on which is fragile but doing it’s best to support me.

 I hope your day is going better and your headache is all better too. I hear small birds twittering in my garden. They are sane, normal little beings.

Thanks again 🙏

ER

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

I'm so sorry, you seem to be trapped in a box, every way you turn you seem to hit a brick wall. I know there are good GP's out there, but you seem to keep coming across the ones who are not helpful and I can understand that telling the story over and over has become exasperating for you, not to mention triggering. You deserve so much more than life is handing you, I just wish there was something I could do that would be of help to you.

Your psych is one of the few people in your corner so I hope you find some level of relief tomorrow. For today, perhaps you can get some time in nature to feel a little better. Maybe photographing the twittering birds in the garden will distract you for a while.

I empathise and am here for you,

indigo 💜

[Eagle Ray]

Dear indigo,

Thank you 🙏 I just had my session with my psychologist. It was actually today. It's just that I sent my previous post here yesterday but it didn't appear until today. It was helpful speaking with my psych and I feel better. She agrees I am better off doing the DSP application with a GP who actually gets my situation and understands my experience. I have a bit of a plan for searching for a new GP and feel a bit less hopeless. I called Suicide Call Back Service about 3am this morning and they were helpful as usual.

I did some photographing of birds yesterday morning. Birds are normal. Humans are frequently not! I would happily live in a cottage in a forest surrounded by birds and animals. I am very lucky here to have a lot of nature in close proximity.

Thank you so much for your kindness. I hope it is a good day for you.

ER 💜

[indigo22]

Hi ER,

Glad you are feeling a bit better today, please keep me updated on your GP search, I so hope you find the right person this time. We humans have the largest brains but the rest of the animal kingdom is way smarter, with some exceptions to that rule of course 😉

[Eagle Ray]

Thank you kindly indigo. I’m driving an hour later today to another town to try a new GP. I’m awake since 3am with the sickening terror of being attacked by yet another doctor who labels patients with fibromyalgia as pathetic time wasters. But I’m going to try anyway. I should know pretty quickly from their energy what it’s going to be like. Seeing doctors over my lifetime has been a re-enactment of my childhood trauma - a mixture of being invisible to being viewed as rubbish and denigrated. I have to remember I am not rubbish no matter what they try to put on me. I am a bit hopeful about this doctor based on what I read on the website, but I know from experience not to be too hopeful. I just have to manage the terror but I am going try to do my best. Even if it takes multiple attempts I have to keep searching to find a doctor without prejudice. I had one briefly in the city before moving here who was truly kind and the only one who was really present with me and had no judgement and no prejudice. I said to her “you have been such a good doctor” and she said “you have been such a good patient”. With her I could sit in the doctor’s waiting room without being crippled with anxiety about how I’m going to be treated and I could actually feel some measure of safety. She had to go on extended leave for family reasons and is still on leave now, but if she wasn’t I would even travel to the city to see her. I feel sick and exhausted now but I still have some spirit to keep trying. Thanks for your support.

Hugs,

ER

[Croix]

Dear ER~

Finding a compatible GP is a bit like winning Tatts.

Good luck -flippers Xed

Croix

[Eagle Ray]

Thank you for having your flippers Xed Croix 🙏 

Unfortunately I don't think she was the right fit as a GP. She also said as a private practice she would charge $500 for the DSP report. I certainly wasn't expecting her to write me a report today as she doesn't know me and couldn't possibly do it until she has documentation from others (liver specialist, psych, past medical records). She thinks I should still try and get a report from my existing GP. I don't really know what to do. I rang my usual GP practice and he still hadn't provided one yet anyway even though he said he would send it on Monday. I find it so incredibly hard communicating my experiences to doctors. I feel rather stuck at the moment. But just have to trust that I will find a way through.

I wonder if Professor Porpoise from the iceberg would write a report? He is a doctor of sorts. He has a PhD in quirky inventiveness. Hmmm 🤔

I feel sad tonight, but I think I'm managing some kindness towards myself despite the sadness. I'm sad this is all so hard when it really shouldn't be. Oh well.

Yes, the winning Tatts thing is so true. The really good doctor I found who just got me without me even having to explain myself was someone I saw out of the blue after being bitten by a redback spider. It wasn't a practice I normally went to. Her kindness and helpfulness was incredible. I remember nearly falling off my chair in shock during my first visit to her. I was like this is amazing, I actually feel seen by this doctor and safe with her. It is so hard for me to feel safe with people so I was amazed. She was really intuitive too. One day I was out on a walk and I was starting to feel really unwell, the bouts of unwellness I get with the liver disease. Then my phone rang and it was her. Like a doctor actually rang me on my phone - wow! She said straight away, "are you ok right now?"  I said not really and explained how ill I was feeling. She told me my recent blood test results showed my liver readings had spiked. So she ordered some further testing and organised for me to come in and see her again. I am still getting these bouts which I know are part of the liver disease, but my current medical practitioners do not believe there is an association. So I am going through these periods of intense illness with absolutely no support. I am totally alone in that sense and I have no idea how to get anyone to hear me. I asked for a blood test from my current GP on Monday and he refused because my last liver results were good from December. I'm really not believed. Even the liver specialist said "my job is done" because of my liver test results stabilising. But I know something is still wrong. I know from the current literature from leading researchers in the disease you can have normal liver readings but still be sustaining liver damage, but this is not considered by my liver specialist or GP. They don't believe you can know your own body.

I guess I'm just accepting the extreme difficulty in getting help and will just keep finding a way forward. It's just an awful feeling these are the people who represent you to Centrelink if they are the practitioners on the DSP application and you know it isn't even going to accurately reflect what is happening for you. At least my psychologist said yesterday, "I believe you". I have one person who understands my situation and is genuinely supportive.

Thanks again,

ER