Don't tell me I'm not alone. Don't tell me there's help.

[foodwithsauce]

I'm tired of hearing these thoughtless and frankly false platitudes from people who have no basis on which to rest such assertions. I want to be dead. That's the ideal. Past-tense. I don't want to have to go through the stress and cost and drama of finding a viable exit. I just want to not wake up tomorrow. But I don't want to live out a natural life. That's for damn sure.

I hate being told there's help. If actual, practical help exists then I've somehow managed not to find any in the last sixteen years. So either it's well-hidden or I'm just unworthy of it. I've found the opposite. People who were perfectly willing to kick me at my lowest and make things worse. People willing to exploit, abuse, cheat, beat and rob me. There's no shortage of that.

[therising]

Hi foodwithsauce

I hear your frustration. I also hear your intolerance to people or systems that make no obvious difference.

I admit, it would have been handy to have been told by experts that the way out of depression was going to be thoroughly depressing at times, seriously depressing. It would have been handy to have been told at the onset of my depression 'The next 15 years of clinical depression are going to be filled with a lot of disappointment and people or systems that make no obvious difference but you will come to find the difference at the end of those 15 years. The difference will be mind altering and life changing'.

While the first of my anti depressants made a difference, the difference stopped. The variety of meds that followed made no difference at all. Finding the right med became a depressing quest that resembled a search for the Holy Grail, with the question 'Does this thing actually exist' coming to mind on more than one occasion. The psyche I saw, made no difference. In fact, he actually triggered me. I always sensed an obvious distance between us, as opposed to a connection. All the people who reassured me that 'Everything will be okay' made no difference. 'Everything will be okay' is no management plan when it comes to making a difference. I could go on with all the things that made no difference but that would be depressing 🙂

I believe people can have that moment where they do feel the difference. I remember experiencing this feeling on more than one occasion within, of all things, Post Natal Depression group therapy. Never in a million years would I have imagined myself in PND group therapy. By the way, I didn't want to go. My mum pushed me, so I went just so she'd stop nagging me. I 1st felt the difference when I felt 'normal' in that group. To the outside world, I was sad, angry, unmotivated, constantly disappointed, a control freak and so on. In that group, where everyone felt the same way, I was normal. 'Normal' felt seriously weird and foreign to me. The most significant difference came through a revelation, 'If all these traits are the traits of depression, who am I without these traits?' I had no idea who I was. I know, sounds weird. Won't go into any great detail about my quest to 'find my self' but lets just say that in any life altering quest there are a heck of a lot of questions and many revelations.

In depression, I believe we are constantly searching for difference because the sameness is depressing in itself.

🙂

[foodwithsauce]

There's way too much here to respond too with such a tiny text-box.

White Rose - you have nothing empirical to support that assertion, but at least you're honest in saying it's predicated on your belief. It's a belief that can readily be falsified, not that this has, or will ever stop people believing in things they want to. I too have irrational beliefs about everyone's innate value, but reality has falsified those beliefs so many times and I'm tired of arguing with it. I'm sick of pretending that I, and everyone else is special and worthwhile in a culture where many are in fact demonstrably regarded and treated as worthless human trash.

I have no one who cares and no job and I've given up looking. Sorry, I'd write more but there's a character limit.

smallwolf - there isn't much to tell. I had an incredibly unstable upbringing, already had issues with anxiety, and probably something like Aspergers (never diagnosed or treated); was sexually assaulted in my teens, obtained zero support or acknowledgement from those sources I was willing to approach, family imploded, mother was an alcoholic, surrogate father had to flee the country after a botched drug deal, blah blah blah. I could go on. I eventually gave up trying to get help because I sincerely don't believe it exists save for people with mild psychological issues (no resulting physical and social issues) or those with pre-existing support networks, like family, but I was able to get over my anxiety and other physical issues myself. However there is little hope for anyone attempting to start a life from scratch so late. People will gas-light you and claim otherwise with false-equivalencies about people who changed careers when they were older, but that's all that is. I've been running up that particular down escalator for about ten years. Anyway that's enough. There's more but I really dislike talking about why my life is shit and all the things that have gone wrong. It changes nothing.

Sophie_M - they were unpleasant at best, traumatic at worst, and worth nothing in the long-term. Thank you for the link. I might call them today if I can speak properly.

Roads End - I'd rather honest negativity than false-positivity. If I want false positivity, and for people who know nothing about me to lie about how everything is going to be fine, and to trivialise and or invalidate my issues (assuming they don't hang up) there are dozens of help lines I can call who literally do nothing else.

therising...

[foodwithsauce]

therising - depression and anxiety I can manage, but not in a support vacuum and while living a life that would leave most healthy people miserable. From my teens I've slowly ratchetted down my aspirations and dreams until they got to where they are now. I'm square with the fact that I will never have a family. I'm fine having no partner. I can even handle having no friends. I just want some sort job to impose some structure on my life and give me a reason to get out of bed. It's not going to happen. In theory I could 'buy,' a job. I've saved money because I never do anything. I even have the skills and equipment to start a business. It's not going to happen though. Maybe five years ago but now I fear catastrophe in everything and on the rare occasions I can self-motivate through depression that stops me. There's no way I can start and run a business. Now the one thing I think about more than anything else is dying. I am mostly at peace with it. I mean, I know my body and genes will fight it and make the experience as fearful and horrible as possible. I hate my body and genes for a reason. But I've trained myself to do things in their despite.

[smallwolf]

Compared to you, my life has been a dream. But here I am. I am also not asking for your age, but I started seeing a psychologist at 47 and then a psychiatrist was added and medication. I will sometimes confess to my psych* I feel like a fraud when there are others who need help. And then there was one time, when one of the persons whose life was harder than mine said that it does not matter what puts you in that low spot you are worthy and deserving of help and support.

I also likened the feeling of being low as normal, and happiness was not deserved and abnormal. Feeling low was like comfortable slippers. You are so used to them you don't want anything new as they don't feel the same.

I was also one to hold my feelings inside and not speak about them. Again, not smart on my behalf.

I can imagine there are lots of people who take advantage of us. Could also be through ignorance or there own issues?

I cannot think of a person on this forum who would be negative towards you.

Finally, and I am aware there are things you don't want to talk about and you sound like a very interesting person. Your post gave me so many questions. Curious to find out more about you.

[foodwithsauce]

smallwolf - I used to, and still try to be honest about how I feel, but the reality is most people don't want to know, and in many cases they will hate you if they find out. Yes, there are countless people who will try to take advantage of you. Exploitation the most fundamental component of our social order.

I am happy to talk about most things. It's just a matter of being in the right head-space and having the energy. So feel free to ask anything.

[smallwolf]

I only have 2 questions at the moment:

1. where did your name (foodwithsauce) come from? Cooking is one of my hobbies and something I do as a distraction.

2. you mentioned it too late to start a new life. Wondering how late is too late? I am 50 (a few weeks ago) and changing paths next year. I am not suggesting you are right/wrong and it is a very subjective thing so just interested in your thoughts.

Tim

[foodwithsauce]

1. It's just words. It has zero relevance to anything.

2. You can change your job, career or industry at almost any age. Which is exactly why stories of people doing this are the go-to red herring of counsellors and psychologists trying to invalidate your experience when you point out that there is simply no path for people starting from scratch with no network to help, no familial or peer-based connections, etc.

Your resume can't exactly say, 'I spent those ten years unable to go outside due to PTSD.'

[Aaronsis]

Hi foodwithsauce

I wanted to share with you a story of my brother, he is living alone (my mother just passed away), he has no friends, he does not engage with the family, he too was as you say "starting from scratch with no network to help, no familial or peer-based connections, etc."..but the part where I wanted to shine light on was the part where he started work this year. He is 44 years old and in January of this year he commenced his first job...ever...

I wanted to share this story to perhaps give you something to consider in that there are organizations that support those whos life story is not "grow up, get a job, get married and have kids"...

My brother has admitted he is damaged, I have no idea how or why, he would never share that with me, he has never had a friend, he has never had a partner, his baseline for how humans think and interact was my mother...who suffered her own demons and extreme anxiety.

I lost my younger brother (19years old) to suicide last year (father's second marriage, different mothers) and I am not sure if this situation had anything to do with his next moves but in January he walked into Coles, he asked if they had a job, they mentioned that they were interviewing the next day and he went....these two things in themselves I was so very interested to see let alone the next ones. See he went to the panel interview...yes with other people...and then not only did he manage to get to a second interview, he got a job. He works hard and he stacks the shelves. He doesn't speak to anyone really and just goes on about his role. His supervisor is very happy as he is a hard worker, he is often called in to do extra shifts as people call in last minute or want to do other things in their life. He does not have other things so he is available.

I am so beyond happy he has this job as I have no idea how he would have coped being in a house alone without my mother, even thought that relationship too was beyond toxic, the were codependent and needed each other, and hated each other too.

My point....you just don't know what situations tomorrow brings, that may strike a chord with you and to make you choose something you would not usually choose, like walking into Coles.

Also, there are places that will give people a chance...you just have to ask for it.

You have so much more to offer than a resume.

Sarah

[Nicotine]

I feel you on that... I'm in much the same boat. I don't want to claim what helps for me will help you, or that it is a fix-all (I'm on beyond blue aren't I? heh. Oh well, it's here for a reason.) but I've been getting more structure into my life by trying to keep the big-picture stuff at the /back/ of my mind and setting myself small incremental goals towards 'out of this hole'.

one of the positive things you identified about yourself is that you have skills... but feel running a business is too overwhelming right now. 'Just get a job!' is a commonly offered solution to isolation but ...kinda hard right now. Are your skills things you enjoy doing? if you do them as a hobby, a local facebook group who share your interest can be a helpful starting point for 'some interaction centred around a thing you enjoy'- you can lurk as long as you want to feel out the group before jumping in with posting your own stuff or engaging in the discussion. Once you start posting, you'll make acquaintances, and may meet some people you want to talk to, which can turn into friendships... and people to 'show stuff to' can make it easier to keep plugging away even on the days you don't give a damn and it seems pointless. Once you've gotten yourself accustomed to the 'people' part....which can take some easing in if you're used to extreme isolation... it can make other things that will further your goals easier. From there it might not seem so hard to attend a weekly hobby group or one of those hangout-for-mentally-ill-people places (former is good because you know you have something in common with everyone there, latter is good because it's an environment where everyone /understands/ 'can't talk, anxiety') for in-person socialising a couple times a month- I wound up with a few people I chill with now and then by doing that.

If they're not skills you enjoy doing so doing them as a hobby seems ..not appealing, but it is a field you want to work in, then classes/gig work can still be a way to put /something/ on the resume gap, as is seeking a place willing to give work experience.'The system' can be ....brutal.... when you're seeking out help or mental health support, but IME jump right on it when you go to them with'I am looking to get off unemployment and am seeking assistance in finding a position that will make reasonable accommodations for my mental health while providing me career-relevant experience to make up for the resume gap that is currently impeding my job-search' 😄

[foodwithsauce]

Nicotine - of the two skills I have there are no facebook groups for one, and as far as I know I'm the only person in Sydney who does it. The other is surrounded by a toxic industry that has no place for people like myself. I've been trying to find work experience there, willing to work for free, for years. It's caused me more than enough trauma and wasted more than enough of my money.

Mind you I honestly don't care about money anymore. I have savings, and since they're never going to be enough to retire to anything I have no problem using it.

I am sick of being alone, and it's becoming clear that's not going to change. It isn't even about reaching out at this point. Only toxic, abusive or exploitative people don't consider me sub-human, and that's only because they see a target on my back.