SLEEP

[Doolhof]

Hi All,

In the past there may have been threads on sleep and how to improve our quality of sleep.

I am starting this thread up and hope to include past thread titles.

For some of us sleep is a real issue, the more we can learn about it the better informed we will be.

Funny stories on weird places you have fallen asleep are welcome as well.

For me, I had just moved house and was very busy getting everything organised. Friends invited me to the drag races. I was so tired and exhausted that I sat down, leant against the fence right near the starting line and fell asleep for most of the evening.

Hope to read some of your stories and tips.

Cheerio for now, from Mrs. Dools

[Lici]

Hi Fred, Grandy and Dools,

I got in to see the sleep Dr through seeing a psychiatrist at uni, he told the gp to write a referral out. It was bulk billed under Medicare though, so definitely talk to your GP about getting a referral. I know that a few times when I spoke to gps about my sleep they'd think I was just looking for pills, so maybe starting off with "I want to get a sleep study done to work out why I'm having problems sleeping" might be more effective.

It's true what your psychologist said about getting up, we were taught that in our sleep lectures last semester along with them talking about other therapies. I do the same thing if I'm not asleep within 15 mins. Before my medication I'd be in and out of bed 3 or so times before getting to sleep. I could write up the other therapy stuff if anyone is interested, none of them include medications, just things people can do depending on their sleep issue past the sleep hygiene stuff.

It's funny I used to have trouble getting to sleep at night. Now with this medication I have trouble waking up!

[Doolhof]

Hi Everyone,

LICI, yes, maybe I need to be more specific and state that I would like to have a sleep test done. My Dr thinks that I just don't sleep because I am a light sleeper and have forgotten how to have a good night's sleep.

Any information you would like to share here may be beneficial to lots of people. We have many people who just read the forums and don't contribute, so we may never know how many people our information and ideas reach.

My concern with getting up during the night is that I will soon learn to get up and stay up! My psychologist said he didn't think that was possible. Guess I won't know how effective it is unless I try it!

Grandy, It certainly isn't going to hurt if you try something a little different. I find that when I try to work out a Sudoku puzzle there is no room in my mind for any other thoughts! Don't know it is a good idea when I am trying to sleep though, a book might be a better thing for me.

Hope you have some success. You might need to try for a few nights to see how you go.

Cheers All from Dools

[Lici]

Hi Dools,

The fact that your gp said your just a light sleeper kind of shows that they don't know much about sleep.

The first thing we were asked in our sleep lectures was if we thought that people just went to sleep, went into a deep sleep and then woke up. Most people (including myself) did. The fact is that we don't sleep like that.

There's 5 stages of sleep, stage 1, 2, 3, 4 and REM. We go through each stage like a roller coaster in 90 minute cycles each night. Stage 1 and 2 are the light stages of sleep, stage 3 and 4 are the deep stages of sleep and REM sleep is when we have vivid dreams etc. Deep sleep happens after around 20-40 mins after we fall asleep and we gradually drift from stages 1-3 however REM doesn't happen straight after stage 4.

For normal sleep patterns, people have relatively rapid varied cycles of sleep and after 90 mins will enter stage 1 again and after around 5 hours of sleep people will only enter stage 2 and will wake fully a couple of times for brief periods before waking up fully.

As people age, they need less deep and REM sleep and will spend more time in stage 1 and 2 sleep with an increase in stage 1 from age 60 onwards and an increase in the number and length of awakenings from around age 50.

For insomnia, there's three main types:

• delayed sleep phase (what I have) which is where people have difficulty falling asleep at a "normal" time due to their circadian rhythm being delayed

• maintenance insomnia where people have difficulty staying sleep and wake up during the night (this is only insomnia if when they wake up they can't get back to sleep)

• Early morning insomnia this is caused by an advanced circadian rhythm and people with this insomnia will end up getting tired at around 8-10pm and their sleep time will be from around 12-4am and then they'll wake up. Treatment depends on the type of insomnia someone has.

For DSPD, people are given bright light therapy in the morning for 1 hour (I sit outside for an hour after I wake up) then advance their wake up time and bright light by 15 mins each morning and avoid bright light before bed. Stimulus control therapy is also applied.

Stimulus control therapy:

• Restrict bedroom to sleep and sex
• Don't go to bed until sleepy
• If not asleep in 15 mins, get out of bed
• Go back to bed again when sleepy
• Keep repeating 3&4 until asleep

• Have a fixed wake up time regardless of amount of sleep obtained

• Don't nap during the day or at the tv before bed.

I've run out of room but there's more

[Lici]

For maintenance insomnia, bright light therapy isn't used, instead Bedtime Restriction Therapy is used:

• Work out your average amount of actual sleep per night (usually done by completing a sleep diary). Hours spent lying in bed awake are not included. Plan to stay in bed for only the length of the average sleep time.
• Choose a regular wake-up time and stick to this 7 days a week
• Set your bedtime by starting from your wake-up time and subtracting the number of sleep hours calculated in step 1.

In conjunction with this, caffeine consumption is reduced or eliminated, no activities are allowed in bed (step 1 of stimulus control therapy), daytime naps are to be avoided and education on sleep is provided (so what I wrote about the stages of sleep, the cycles of sleep etc). A sleep diary is usually given during the therapy to monitor progress until the person's sleep efficiency is at 90%

For early morning insomnia, bedtime restriction therapy is used as well as bright light therapy in the evening. People with this insomnia are given evening bright light to delay their circadian rhythm and stay awake an hour longer than usual and avoid bright light in the morning by wearing sunglasses. Sleep education is given and then relaxation strategies such as progressive muscle relaxation, meditation, mindfulness, self hypnosis etc.

The important thing with these insomnia types is there must be daytime functioning impairment if there's no excessive daytime sleepiness and other functioning impairments then it's not considered insomnia. This is where a sleep doctor comes in as they'll know for sure by doing a sleep study if there's any circadian rhythm issues etc. These treatments are what they would suggest though and I'm sure they'd be available on Google if anyone wanted to look into the therapies more or the different types of insomnias. Either way, hopefully some of these things might help as while they're hard to stick to, they've been researched a lot and are proven to be the most effective treatments for insomnia.

I hope everyone is enjoying their weekend!

Lici

[Guest_1584]

Hi everyone.

Just for my own personal situation and what works and been going on, which is probably every no no in the book but l don't care if it works it's a yes for me.

But l'm pretty pleased with myself. A mth or two back l decided with a nudge from my daughter and the fact l work for myself at home so l go to bed or get up when l want, which is not good for steady sleep.

So being a night owl for years , 4 or 5am off to sleep, or often at sunup.been on 3 or 4 hours for years so l've been trying to get back to normal hours , miss the night though so much. It's been going well though and l'm up to 6 to 8hours a night now. ; l crash at 11/30 to maybe 1/30, , 2 max. Set my alarm now for 7. 15. week days. and for me that right there is the key.

For me 7.15 just means once l get use to more sleep , by midnight or 1 l'm dog tired now after 2mths , and l'm out pretty easily. No day naps or after work , if l take a nap l'm fulla beans at 1 am or 2 am, so it's very important for me that l'm dog tired by about midnight , 1 or 2 max. And it's been going really well.

But for me no way l couldn't eat after 7 , l'd never sleep hungry and l often have a toasted sandwich and a glass of quick or something round 10 , 11 or 12 .

WEirdest thing and l've found this other times too when l've got back to normal hours and enough sleep , l'm tured all the time, why is that ? l'm never tired on 3 or 4 hours and have oodles of energy even at 3 or 4 in the morning. But now l'm on off tired through the day and def' kaput by 12 or 1 yet l'm getting 6 or 7 or 8 hours first time in years .

But anyway so that's roughly what's been working for me. The only thing's been that because l'm now so tired all the time by 7 or 8 just lately l'm allowing myself a bit of a nap. Trouble is for sire though l want sleep till about 2am though when l do. But it still works out all up about 6-8 hours so no matter l suppose.

Ps , if my minds too busy to sleep l have a glass of red, out like baby after that.

[Guest_1584]

For me it's all about knowing how you tick and forming a routine around that, for me the routine is very important .

[Ggrand]

Hello Dools, RX, Lici, Fred, Paul and everyone else...

Night two with no hardly no sleep, just getting bits n pieces here and there..I know that Sleep is nearly impossible when you've been triggered into a deepness that's really not a good place to be..

Tonight I have been laying in bed counting sheep, started with a 1000 of them, theyre slowly disappearing.but when I closed my eyes they all came running back to me with happy little faces...geez not sure if they all came back and thought I better start to count them away again..Maybe next time I'll count cows, they can't run back as fast as sheep, so I might have better luck...

Sleep...

Sleep, sleep I need to sleep tonight,
And to dream of the stars so bright.
Sleep sleep and dream of peace,
Relax your body and think of peace
Now Close your eyes and start to breathe,
Your doona get covered go underneath,


Let's meditate and try to sleep,
Or count backwards to make us sleep,
Nothing works because of my tears,
I have to try and let go of my fears,
My mind is taken over by the beast
it's time I stopped the beasty's feast.


Beasty leave me alone and let me sleep,
I need to sleep and sleep real deep,
While I'm asleep my thoughts might just rest
Then maybe I'll awaken and be at my best,
Sleep should give me the strength I need to fight,
To take you down beasty so you'll run in fright,


Sleep sleep you have to come my way,
So I can wake fresh for a brand new day.
I'll fight beasty off so the day will be mine,
My body, my heart and my soul will shine,
Like the sun the moon and the stars above,
Today is a day I know that I'll love,
All because Sleep came to me tonight.
This was my dream will it come to be true.
Will I wake up fresh or will I still be blue....


......It all depends on the little thing that they call sleep.! Will it visit me tonight or will I count all those sheep...

Wishing you all a good nights sleep, so in the morning and throughout the day you will shine..

Love and hugs 🤗

Grandy...

[blondguy]

Hi Grandy RX Lici Dools Fred DB and everybody 🙂

Some excellent ideas happening here....and Lici mentioning having a sleep study done

If we focus on the word 'Blank' and nothing else it can work wonders as its so very boring

Blank...

Have a good weekend everyone

Paul......Blank...

[Doolhof]

Hi Everyone,

Grandy thanks for the lovely, descriptive poem. I really do hope you are able to find ways to help you clear your mind so you can sleep. Maybe you could count elephants or maybe even whales swimming in the ocean, they are so slow and maybe there soothing motion while swimming might also bring a sense of calm to your mind.

Randomx routine can be very important to some people in regards to sleep. My husband has a friend who manages to fall asleep as soon as his head hits the pillow! That would be delightful!

Paul the word BLANK certainly does not conjure up too many images! I might try that next time I need to chill my mind.

Cheers all from Dools

[PamelaR]

Hi Dools and everyone else

Not sure if I've posted here before (oldtimers - sorry). Anyway, sleep for me -

My pattern (rhythm) for sleeping is topsy turvy - has been since a child. We used to play games (card games, board games) on weekends and holidays till all hours of the morning. My dad used to work nights and get home about 2am. I used to often stay awake until he came home.

In my 20s I used to party a lot and get home at 3-4 in the morning.

And I wonder why I can't get to sleep until 4am? When I sleep I sleep. But it's not what people call normal hours. I'll sleep from 4-9am. Doesn't work well with someone who's a morning person.

But while I've worked for the past 30 odd years, I've tried several methods to get me to sleep at a more convenient time. Tried - herbal medications (e.g. valerium based, st. john's wart), alcohol (2-3 glasses of wine early in evening), hayfever medications (e.g. zertec), herbal teas (calming, bedtime,chamomile), not eating or drinking stimulating stuff (e.g. coffee, chocolate, msg), regular exercise.

What's worked the best is - a mixture of regular exercise early in the day, herbal teas.

Funniest places I fall asleep - on the Adelaide city to Glenelg tram, the old rattly one, before they changed it to the newer one. Can sleep on trains, buses, planes. Always in the car, not when driving though - oh except for once a long time ago in slow traffic.

Kind regards

PamelaR