Narcissism

[white knight]

Hi.

Narcissism is very common. Tyrants from our blood relatives and friends right up to some country leaders..Gaddafi, Hitler, Hussein and many more.

Chances are you are in contact with some. Here is a description from the www.

What is the personality of a narcissist?
Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is characterized by an extreme sense of self-worth. ... People with narcissistic personality disorder are not interested in the feelings of others - they lack empathy; they are unable to feel or appreciate feelings that are not their own

Do you have NPD?. If so then as with BPD and any other mental illness if you have swallowed your pride and sought treatment then thats great. Well done. The victim however might not be so forgiving.

The narcissist could run with the line that its their makeup, their nature and they've inherited the condition but as narcissism is inheritedly to include lack of empathy their focus should not be on them but on their victims. Thats an education process that would be a difficult journey and where psychiatry has a firm place but your recognition is a major step forward.

The victims of narcissistic people is not determined by age. Even adult children can dominate their parents to the point of no respect. Nor is it gender biased.

Having a narcissistic BPD parent I tried for 55 years to toe the survival tight rope. Lengthy separations, counseling etc, to no avail. A narcissist will often go to extraordinary means to "win" and to "own" you, thoughts and all.

As a younger man my mothers actions made no sense. An unavoidable arguement days before my first wedding (1985) all but ruined it. Manipulation has always been an extreme past time of my mother. It still saddens me and even embarrasses me to mention it!

Numerous upheavals later and my second wedding was under threat of ruination. Finally an AVO was sort and finally I had the wedding of my dreams. Such is the extraordinary measures one must take to counter the vicious nature of a narcissist.

Google

Queen witch hermit waif

The power a narcissist will rock your world. Manipulation could result in losing relatives, being left out in wills and personal harassment. There is one answer. Let them go!

Releasing a narcissist from your life has no half measures. You will find it impossible to "just keep in touch".

If however you observe effect of them getting treatment then its your call if you can endure the process of support.

No one can judge that decision- its yours alone...

Tony WK

[CMF]

Thank you Tony.

[demonblaster]

Yes thanks Tony

I put up a thread re what goes on with other MI, exactly stuff I want to learn , to understand what goes on.

This is one we hear a lot on these forums.

[CMF]

Came across this today;

Narcissists are such hypocrites. They pretend to have morals, standards, feelings and a conscience but they possess none of these. They will lie, insult, cheat and disrespect you but in return they will expect fidelity, respect and all your time and energy spent on them. They can do whatever they want, whenever they want but you are to remain loyal and perfect at all times. This isn't healthy; it's toxic and definitely not love.

Sums up parts of my life.

[Positive_Vibes]

Hi Tony, thanks for your post I think it gives good advice. I was recently diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, apparently that has been the major barrier to treating my other issues- I didn't want to confront bipolar and epilepsy because I thought I was too good for that or could handle the conditions on my own. Still trying to understand it. Doctor says that like most personality disorders it is a maladaptation, the way a person chooses to hide or disguise low self esteem.

I've been doing some research and the more I learn and reflect, I see she is totally correct. And it has really affected my relationships too, obviously in a negative way. I don't think I've had the manipulation problem you describe but I definitely dominate conversations and try to be right all the time.

The lack of empathy you mentioned is only one of the possible diagnostic criteria for NPD. As you said, google it. A person has to satisfy a certain number of the criteria regularly to be diagnosed, usually four or five it depends on severity and frequency. My big ones are an over-inflated sense of self worth, a preoccupation with success and money, and thinking that others are focused on me. I'm empathetic, but I have a lot to work on.

One thing that will apparently help is Dialetical Behavioral Therapy (DBT) or any sort of behavioral therapy, its the choice for personality disorders. So I'm doing a DBT program now and I'm hoping for the best. It is also good that I know so I can talk about it with the people I'm in relationships with, its good to acknowledge the behaviors I get wrong sometimes and I have to work on it.

So main reaction to post- a bit harsh, but the message rings true. I would lay off the anger a bit if you want that message to be accessible to more people. The ultimatum "let them go" won't be appreciated by everyone, and is hurtful to some. Especially narcissists, we respond poorly to criticism or ultimatums, so many of us wouldn't get as much out of the post. Its important for people with NPD to know what it is and how it affects others.

So I agree, for people in relationships with narcissists, evaluate the situation and be very careful to see that your feelings aren't being walked over. If its happening, don't need to get out right away, if you care about the person you could first push for psychotherapy. And for my fellow narcissists- my psychiatrist says behavioural therapy takes work but helps a lot of people, so give it a try!

[CMF]

Hi Positive Vibes and welcome-love the name.

Firstly, I sincerely hope my post did not offend you, I was coming from the place of a person who has been treated very badly as Tony would have been too.

Secondly, i take my hat off to you for acknowledging and accepting NPD and being proactive in dealing with it. I enjoyed learning more about it from the other side. I personally tend to forget that it can come from a maladaptation and to know this and try and remember can help when dealing with someone who has NPD. Unfortunately in my situation the person does not see it and never will, it is extreme controlling behaviour.

Thank you for your insight into narcissism. I appreciate it.

Take care

cmf

[white knight]

Hi positive vibe, welcome

I echo every word CMF said.

Im receptive to your post PV, as we are peer group members so our expertise is very limited.

Id like to know the statistics on how many people with NPD are diagnosed, of those diagnosed get the treatment to the extent you are and how many are proactive in bettering themselves personally.

I would guess we'll never know but narcassists go through life (generally) wreaking havic and causing harm and those undiagnosed would be very high. They dont have the insight you have. Hence the people that have to tolerate such behaviour are the victims, so many its frightening and many here on this forum.

CMF is right, Ive been a victim of a parent with, I suspect (she's in denial) of BPD with at least traits of NPD. In the end after 54 years I had to move on from her. Had I not, my second wedding would have been destroyed. Alienating her was the only option. I tried for 20 years to attend her doctor with her. You said "If its happening, don't need to get out right away, if you care about the person you could first push for psychotherapy". Of course, yes, but the victim needs the sufferers agreeance. In my experience the sufferer is the opposite to you, she enjoyed her power and control not unlike a tyrant.

Ive also covered BPD in threads and sadly walking away from a relationship with some, most of these people is the only real option. For their mental health l as caring person relay such an option of alienation ...why?. In my case and my sister, both whom have attempted suicide, its a case of our survival. Its that serious.

However, it is and always has been my view that those BPD/NPD people that seek treatment dont fall under such a banner, no way, people with your attitude are to be commended and embraced and hopefully not taken advantaged if in the process of such honesty. Hence my comment "If however you observe effect of them getting treatment then its your call if you can endure the process of support."

So in summary the victims of some BPD or NPD people and their battles surviving ill treatment is so many in number we cant as a society ignore their plight. This attention to them cant be done without offending the sufferer of the illness. But in your case as with anyone getting treatment it eliminates you from the equation.

I hope that clarifies things. Please rest assured we as community champions is here for you as well.

Tony WK

[Positive_Vibes]

No worries, thanks guys. I appreciate the clarification but the initial posts were helpful to me, I'm trying to pay more attention to how it affects relationships. You're right I imagine most cases go undiagnosed and theres probably a big difference in severity as well. I think most people don't confront it. If people are severe and won't even admit it or commit to treatment, it causes really painful relationships. I'm glad you were able to get out safely and I hope others in that situation can have your resilience.

[demonblaster]

Heyaz

White and Positive just wanted to say yous both spoke very well and with respect. Great communication.

[white knight]

Hi db

How could I not admire and respect someone getting treatment for NPD or BPD. Both illnesses that have commonly have patient resistance?

Along comes a new member that also gives insight and frankly educates me on the topic.

I hate being called a "nut case". So being labelled a narcissist would be hurtful. Its a nasty word.

Tony WK