Men isolated

[white knight]

I'd like to hear from men. I want to know your inner feelings about anything that you feel isolated about. I'd like to know if you feel that the revolution towards equality of the sexes has gone too far to a point whereby you are feeling inferior to women or you feel women are being treated better in any way - just because you are a man.

Emotionally, are you feeling that you get enough support from females? Do you feel women are afraid to hug you to comfort you for any reason? like you'll take advantage of them? Do you have many female friends? Do you feel that women socialize better? What do YOU want socially?

Feel free, talk, let go of your restraints, take advantage of the anonymous environment to let yourself be heard. We can do this and be in error, that our presumptions are ill directed and unfair. It could be our own inapproachability for example that can sway women away from us when we need them most.

Are we misread? I know when I'm in conflict with someone I come across as a little aggressive or arguing in a normal male manner and that can portray someone that is not in need of support but is someone to avoid. NOTHING could be further from the truth.

So that's one gripe. I feel women don't pursue the friendship care far enough. Such limited care results in my feelings of isolation. I think I'm a "giver" apart from my supportive wife no woman supports me anywhere near the level I give to them. Is this an illusion? What do you think?

Two people. One a woman that enters a group, say a hobby group. She sits down and isn't feeling emotionally well. She is asked a question like "how is your day"? She burst into tears. The whole group of 10 ladies stand and hold her hand, hand on her shoulder, comforting and reassurance. She is not alone. They even ring her later and talk at length. The other person a middle aged male enters a motoring clubroom in his local town, his male friends restore cars and share drinks. He sits and realizes he was in no shape to attend. A guy asks him how his restoration is going. He is upset thinking about his car as due to his depression he hasn't been to his shed for weeks. He suddenly starts crying. The men, all of whom start to feel uncomfortable, mention a few things like" you'll get there don't worry". He is worried because he knows that half of the men there actually think he is a softy by crying, to stand clear of him because he has problems, to avoid him as it might upset their own happy day in the sun....

Tony WK

[Quercus]

Hello everyone (Tony this thread gets more interesting every time I read),

To answer your question about walls forming when we need to discuss something 'deep'... Yes Tony it happens to women too. Happens to me all the time.

How do you notice it? I'll make a joke, change topic, divert conversation to others, point out things others are dealing with, go quiet, isolate myself and worst case scenario if all those things don't work I lash out and get angry. Not usually at the person asking. Usually at myself in the form of self depreciation and self hate and negativity in order to push people away from me.

How to get around it? Trust. Patience. Persistence.

Random mentioned his brother who is closed off yet sometimes hugs. That's me. Sometimes I can't get the words out so I resort to touch. To show others I care but also that I need them. I'm not a touchy person so people tend to notice.

Time and patience and trust are my tools to chip at the wall. Hubby is one of the few I have let in and it took years and two children before he started to see me clearly. He is patient. Rides out the days where I push him away. Waits and reassures me he's not going anywhere. It took a long time. He earned my trust.

The other thing that works is persistence. Eg My friend texts. I can't or won't reply. A week later she texts again. No reply. Three to four days later another text... "Are you alive?". It is her telling me enough Nat... Get your head out of your butt and acknowledge that I am worried about you and I matter too. One day she'll probably give up on me. But I value stubborn people.

[quirkywords]

Tony, this a great thread .

I feel it is like a never ending buffet as you do not know what delightful morsel you will find.

I think clamming up may also be for some people a personality trait as well due to one's mood.

I agree with what Nat said.

I have a cousin who always asks questions so she does not have to answer any. This is a real cousin and not me!! So she shuts down builds walls by pretending to be so interested in everything other people say. if you get a chance to find out how she is, she just asks more questions or gives a one word answer.

Since I am aware I do a lot of self reflection on here, in real life I tend not put up a tent around my emotions , not a wall. You can get in but only if you can undo all the knots at the front.

I know this has been mentioned but with men old and young I find talking to them doing what they like doing- being walking, carpentry, gardening, labouring etc. helps the conversation.

Quirky

[Quercus]

Yep Quirky I totally agree with finding a topic they are interested in.

Sometimes that means awkward one sided conversations (sounds like me anyway actually) until you hit the jackpot in a topic that they light up about. For me it's gardening. For hubby it is self sustainability. Everyone has topic(s) they could talk about in their sleep. It's a matter of finding them and then listening.

I find for me the people I feel safest with allow and encourage me to waffle. When I'm not feeling good hubby takes me to Bunnings or a local nursery called Zanthorrea and listens to the waffling begin. In between the waffle he listens to what's bothering me. But for me anyway a safe topic helps me to talk.

Is that something men relate to as well?

[blondguy]

Hi TonyWK

I often drift off to sleep listening to the radio and heard a commercial (last night) re: 'Violence Against Women'. This is money well spent as a message has to get through to the men that think this is okay and good on the federal govt for the initiative too as this is a very important issue that needs addressing

Just for myself I find this commercial very hurtful and sexist as I have been a victim of domestic violence from a female partner and hospitalized as a result. The stats are unhelpful as there are many men that never report domestic violence from a female partner until hospitalization.... unfortunately.

Please dont misinterpret my post as anti female as its only about a commercial that is poorly worded and should include men as victims too irrespective of the statistics and/or gender

Thankyou TonyWK for the pro-active thread and letting me post

Men Isolated

Paul

[Guest_1584]

Hi Tony.

l never have that problem with my women so never dealt that really, l like open women.

But also as l say l'm a modern person/thinker and l tend to mix with fairly in there thinking fellas too so most l've known or know see nothing wrong with talking about their stuff. Have spent hours and hours and hours over the years with mates or brothers either of us talking all kinds of stuff and problems.

l think the idea of most men clamping up is an old school old fashion thing , a different era and thinking , so ya got a few mentalities at work. Old school old thinking clamp up types or modern thinkers that have none of that and think totally differently in this day and age.

[Guest_1584]

And yeah as a few of us have said it's often also a personality thing as well. but also too about who we share things with , it's not just anyone. People you trust,like, feel comfortable with. people you can talk too.

Or for example that brother l mentioned , that's just the way he is, it's just his personality. He'll touch on things but never goes much further with anyone,

And thinking more about women and l don't really wanna go back to this one but my ex wife had a bit of trouble coming out with things come to think of it , sometimes you had to squeeze things out a little. But once we'd get talking it was nothing to talk all night in bed, did so a million times, anything and everything, we actually use to lose our voices sometimes.

[white knight]

Hi all,

Yes, maybe many people male and female have these walls but disguise them differently, which is another angle on it.

Quirky, that might include your relative that asks questions??

Paul, an interesting topic- domestic violence against men. Several years ago the same thing occured. At 3am I was near Mildura listening to a similar "violence against women" radio show. I rang them and on air mentioned my 11 years of emotional abuse by my wife using techniques like silence and manipulation as ways to punish me. I was howled down "surely you cant compare silence as equivalent to assault"? I told them "it isnt a competition and one can be as bad as the other". Thankfully an old gentleman rang in to support my argument.

Random, I beg to disagree.

"l think the idea of most men clamping up is an old school old fashion thing"

I clam up all the time. Its like a lump in my throat.

Hi Quercus, is that method like distraction? Eg going to bunnings etc

Tony WK

[blondguy]

Hi TonyWK

The ad campaigns are necessary as Violence against Women is a huge problem that requires addressing

The last campaign cost 30 million dollars (in 2016) and thats fine too..no problem. I heard the new ad last night and it made me feel non existent/sad as a victim of domestic violence.

Im sorry that you had to go through what you did Tony...Physically or emotionally the pain is unbearable

Domestic violence is a two way street irrespective of the statistics

Best. Paul

[Quercus]

Hi Tony and everyone,

Tony... Distraction? Yes I think that is a good way to describe it. He distracts me with something I enjoy and once I find my voice he teases out the emotions I am burying.

Hi Paul... your discussion on domestic violence against men made me remember posts on the forums from male sexual assault survivors.

Noone talks about sexual assault of men. The few members here who do are so incredibly brave in my mind because they talk about something that many others suffer alone with.

The topic of rape generally has exploded in the media of late. But what about men? The statistics are there too. But they're just not discussed. At all!

I hope it is ok that I add that topic.

❤Nat

[white knight]

Hi Nat

Of coirse you can discuss anything to do with mens health on this thread, most welcome.

The damning of men is now widespread in the media. We have VAST satellite tv and have an advert of a child left on the side of a swimming pool. His dad rakes a mobile phone call. Wife appears and gives father an angry look, in that he left his childin a dangerous situation.

Like Paul mentioned thete is zilch wrong with these portrayed situations its just always men being the less responsible and the "target" of the wrongdoing. Like: the man is dumb.

Nat, with men, I feel that there is jokes aimed at men from young women that are hurtful. The length of our sexual organ to the lack of a six pack due to having a beer belly.

Of course men have done this for decades aimed at women but rarely now unless in a juvenile group. All of this is unacceptable now.

I think we can join togther here to promote equal treatment of the sexes, removal of all cruel behaviour and ill treatment of others and if it happens to promote proper care of those victims.

...including in our private lives

Tony WK