Insight and faith

[white knight]

We all try, but how many of us with a mental issue can accurately gauge if we are well or the seriousness of our problem.? After all, our problems affect others doesn't it?

Are our partners/carers the better judge of our wellness?

I'd suggest they are with a proviso (a little on that later).

Let's take moods from the up and down bipolar disorder. When I am in a bad mood I feel angry at something or someone. To another person its a bad mood, an extreme of what would be classed as normal reaction. To me its none if that. Its something I'm angry about. Who is effected by the mood? My partner not I. In all honesty I don't feel my moods are extreme but too many people give me feedback so I can't deny it. But you can understand the struggle within. To believe others about your behaviour you think isn't extreme. Its a tough call. And I constantly question my own actions and words.

One exception with this blind faith of others account, is the alterior motive. I had a partner once that used my moods as a lever to justify her side of arguments. It seemed that possessing bad moods meant you forgave any right to disagree with opinion. Be aware if this for although extreme behaviour is all part if the bipolar package, you should not resign your rights to opinion.

We that need to jump daily hurdles in our quest for stability and happiness and crave for empathy from others should realise that our partners and carers need empathy also. It must be so hard for them to keep convincing us we are not being tolerable, easy going or fun. All the while we go about our life with no thought of how difficult it is for them.

Insight into our own Illness is not a given. Some don't have it. If you have insight you are one if the lucky ones. If you have empathy towards others for the tolerance they need to constantly judge our mood then you have extended yourself to be considerate and have placed much faith in your carer.

And that is a good goal, for you are returning effort. You are in fact a team.

It is not likely we can step in others shoes and see us from their position....hence the level of faith needed.

In most cases carers are better observers of our behaviour.

What do you think?

Tony WK

[white knight]

Hi V

What my psych meant was that what often happens is that our personality traits can be quirky, different, uniquely ourselves and an over thinking partner or carer can interpret such behaviour as elements of mental illness.

"To pay a price" he meant that where ever I turned my mental illnesses would haunt me. Claims of "its your illness" if unwarranted can pop up regularly and I'd be constantly defending myself.

Eg. When I work hard in the garden I work very fast. A partner could interpret that as being manic and want me to get my medication changed. But I work fast because I don't like heavy physical garden work and strive to get it over with so I can do my hobbies

Tony WK.

[V17]

Thanks Tony - I appreciate you getting back to me on this.

I've recently discovered I had been in a relationship for the past 4/5 years with a man who is narcissistic. I had thought that it was all my fault for how I was acting. I'm beginning to see why I have been like I have. Things are making a whole lot of sense now.

V.

[white knight]

Hi V

It's great I can help out.

i have a narcissistic mother. I haven't seen her for 6 years and never will.

But it all fell into place when I read extracts if a book called "walking on egg shells"

Dr Christine Lawson describes it best on google. So google...

Waif, queen, witch, hermit.

Youll be surprised.

Tony WK

[Dreamwish]

Hello

Sorry to butt in, this is an intriguing and thought provoking thread, thank you for creating it Tony.

I have a question I've been dwelling on recently and with a lot of self doubt and no confidence I'm hoping someone might have an opinion they'd like to share on it.

My question is, does your therapist (if you happen to be seeing one) tell you that you have insight into your illness, or is it something you feel within over time and just know about yourself? I question this in myself because before therapy I didn't have a clue that my behaviour and thinking patterns have all stemmed from being abused and my never ending struggle to "stay safe" or "play out" roles and situations that I had been through as I thought they were normal. Everything I've ever done, the choices I made, the interactions I have with people and myself are all because of how I've been treated in childhood, what I grew up believing from a very young age. It was quite shocking for my therapist to basically tell me mostly everything I do is because of an underlying belief I hold and thats why I do it, not necessarily the conscious decision I tell myself.

I'm sorry if I'm not making much sense it's really hard to explain. For example I have ocd, I tell myself it's because I hate germs and dirt and don't want to get sick but it's really about subconsciously staying safe in my environment and having total control as I had no control in childhood. As I know that now, is that having insight? Even though I know this is why I do it, I am not willing to stop my ocd, I'm not willing to test the "unsafe" just yet, maybe in time.

My partner can tell me if I'm being hysterically angry over small things, and I even know myself (afterwards) that my rage and hysterical emotional outbursts were not balanced with what happened at the time, that it was actually a symptom of my ptsd coming out, I can see how my behaviour was extreme but other times I cannot see and I believe it was applicable (being paranoid etc), am I good at insight or not?

*sigh* how I'd love to turn my brain off for just a day to have some peace and quiet.

dreamwish

[white knight]

Hi Dreamwish

good question. In my opinion those with any mental illness that have insight into their behaviours due to their MI will only have so much insight, not all. If they want a full picture of the ramifications of their behavior they need to rely on professional medical people or their partners/carers. That takes faith and faith cant be used against you in a relationship. Arguments will often have the comment "I'm angry because your bipolar behavior is why you treat me badly" and so on.

Back to insight. It's all about if you are 'aware' of your surroundings and others reactions. Is it obvious when you don't fit in, or people don't visit, or members of clubs leave you out of the loop? The problem with groups is the same and likely worse than a partner reacting as above.

Google, Topic: so what are their mental illnesses?- beyondblue

Google Topic: ostracized, who's fault is it?- beyondblue

Humans can be cunning and in denial. Some might well know their behavior isn't within the bounds of normality but if they get a suggestion there is a problem then they quickly deny for their own reasons. So they might have insight but prefer to tolerate their life without the medical processes. This can mean in worse cases, that they leave controversy where ever they go.

Then there are those with no insight at all. They are sometimes so ill they aren't aware of their illness. I'm no expert in these fields, its just my experience talking. I was a prison officer for 3 years and dealt with all sorts of people with and without insight.

If you have insight then you are conscious of your illness and the effect you have on other people. But bare in mind, your personality has a right to be expressed and your illness is a part of you that is nothing to be ashamed of. As pointed out in the threads listed, many people have variations of mental illness that at times never gets revealed.

Nobody is "normal" is heard a lot....I'd prefer to say "everyone is normal but some need help to keep on track".

Tony WK

[JessF]

Hello Dreamwish, my personal feeling is that insight is only half the battle. Knowing why you think or behave in a certain way is not usually enough to extinguish that if it's unhelpful, and in some cases I think it can become an excuse. For example, having poor relationships over and over again, and instead of trying to repair those relationships falling back on "well, this always happens because I had bad parents with a bad marriage, how was I supposed to learn?" . Knowing that how you think and feel now is just an echo of a distant past can be helpful, but it still takes some work to make changes in the here and now.

[Starwolf]

The substance Vs shadow aspect of relationships, particularly applies to those where one person has narcissistic tendencies...or is overwhelmingly dominant. Due to their own issues and hidden insecurities, such types need to assume control over a vulnerable victim. They need to feel in charge...at all cost. Guilt inducing, manipulating, belittling etc...Sometimes the abuse is only emotional, sometimes it is also physical, even sexual. Their vampire like behaviour sucks a victim's power away in order to strengthen their own.

Ideal victims also have personal issues, lack of or shaky self identity, self-worth, self-confidence etc.... A narcissistic person will work on gradually, persistently eroding whatever is left of that. S/he will thrive on the "challenge" and enjoy winning resulting battles and confrontations. And winning s/he must.

[V17]

Thank you so much for elaborating on this Starwolf, seriously - it's been a great help. V.

[Cornstarch]

Sooooo true Star!

The only problem is that unfortunately feelings of unworthiness and self-doubt are in all of us. I don't care how successful you are, sit on a meditation cushion for 5 years and it will reveal itself one way or another!

Therefore it is not just people like us that are vulnerable to being sucked into their controlling vortex, but all people are. Yes, in lots of ways we are easier victims in that we've already been primed, but if you chip someone long enough they will begin to question their goodness and self worth.

If a person has no prior experience with this sort of a personality style they will become extremely defensive at the suggestion that their partner may have narcissistic tendencies. They will cut friendships or point blank decide within seconds that 'I don't like you', because they're not ready to question the authenticity of the intimacy they have experienced with them, and it makes them angry that you dare doubt it.

[Dreamwish]

Hey Jess

thanks so much for replying, and I totally agree with your post! Having insight is only half the battle and I think once someone has some insight it can really help them in changing the negative behaviour, or at least start to question the legitimacy of the behaviour and think "Mmm why am I really doing this?" but yeah knowing is one thing but actually changing is much harder. I made my partner go to therapy to get help with his issues and he was diagnosed with a serious personality disorder, which he says he felt somehow during his life that there was something not quite right but never said anything but I was honestly in total shock when I found out and wondered how on earth I never saw how *different* he was and I've been with him for 6 years. Maybe I was in denial or just blind or really stupid the whole time, maybe I can't trust my judgement of people, I was gutted after finding that out. We both didn't have much insight at all. So its something I really want to work on - gaining more insight and making changes. Thank you again Jess you made a valid point and I'm in total agreeance.

dreamwish