Religion + Sexuality = Guilt + Shame?

[Paul]

Anything that differs from heterosexual missionary position sex for procreation is considered the work of the devil or deviant or dirty. Our parents and many others have probably made the odd remark about "those" acts or "that filth" - that can become an unhealthy reverberation in our heads. 

Why should religion dictate who I have sex with, how I do it, why I do it and how I express my sexuality, let alone how I feel about my sexuality and gender expression?

Paul

[Paul]

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Paul

[Embracing_Tiger]

Hi Paul,

This is a big topic with so many facets and personal belief structures. I don't know which religious organisation mandates that only that particular sex act is acceptable, but I suppose from an individual context for adults, religion is a subjective experience. On a larger context, I advocate for a more secular structure, but the reality is that this is not the case for all countries.  

Spirituality is an important part of a lot of people's lives, but I take issue with others that police or impose their values on others. In sexually or gender/intersex diverse people, the beliefs of a lot of religions creates a deep sense of shame, trauma and internalised homophobia/transphobia in them, or, can promote discrimination in the legal/political/community systems. It used to really upset me when I discussed this issue, especially around reparative therapy or school education. I think, in general things are getting better, but there are still A LOT of problems and only a select group within the community have benefited from the marriage equality campaigns.

What do you think?

E.T.

[Gruffudd]

I would only talk to my own experience because faith is a personal thing, I am part of a religious community and find myself accepted and loved, I have been encouraged and celebrated for all that I am including gender and sexuality. When I have been at my lowest and contemplating ending things, they were the ones who stayed and listened, and through being still and reflecting on the words on Sunday I found hope and got through it. 

Once I heard the Dalai Lama speaking and he made a lot of sense to me when saying, "If it gives you life and love - engage with it, if it takes life away - walk away from it." For some I know walking away has been the necessary when it comes to religion and some of the people there, the guilt, the hurt, and all of that. It is something that makes me feel incredibly sad and angry because it is never OK for someone to be made to feel that way.

What to do with it though? I suspect the remarks might be like the ones some of my teachers made, the ones that come back in my mind when I am having a bad day to remind me how I am "utterly useless", "will never be accepted by my peers", "need to be a man", "can't come into the formal if you are not with a girl"... I know that stuff is not right but still hear them saying it and take it on all these years later, and worse perhaps, from time to time that stuff still gets said to me by people I respect. 

My answer to the question is that no one, no religion, no ideology, has the right to dictate to you who you are and how you live, who you have sex with, how you express your sexuality or gender... only you can dictate those things for yourself. 

Another thing the Dalai Lama said that I responded to was, "Our prime purpose in this life is to help others. And if you can't help them, at least don't hurt them." 

[Paul]

Hey E.T.

I appreciate your thoughts on this.

I read an article today about a Dad who gave his 14yr old daughter and 12yr old son a speech on sex. This was brought about because he was talking with his kids about what they learnt at school and they said that in sex ed they simply learnt that and man and woman have sex, that's how babies are made (paraphrasing) and that kids should wait until they are old enough to have sex and if they do use a condom, but even if you do have sex you'll die. Interesting.

The Dad then gave them 4 rules. 

1. have sex when you're ready

2. get to know the person, hold their hand, talk, cuddle kiss

3. Don't go doing it behind some school building, the kids each have a bedroom with a lock on their door and their bed mate is welcome to stay for breakfast

4. use condoms and use them properly

What a brave Dad!

Spirituality doesn't interfere with sexual expression

Religion and worship of a deity in most cases does, apart from the immoral teachings in the books, the threat of burning in hell for eternity because of sexual expression and something we are wired for is wrong.

My own case.

I go to the gay sauna. I used to feel guilt because I would have my mother in my head as my self talk telling me how disgusting it is and that "those people" are wrong and I'll catch AIDS (No, she still thinks you can catch AIDS). That disappeared when I started saying to her "I went to the sauna the other day, picked up the hottest guy, he had great legs" words to that effect. I think I put my mother through sex education in a different sense - non judgemental sex ed for mothers of poofs.

Anyway that was almost a rant. My whole point is that the indoctrination of people into belief systems as children still has an effect on them when they are older and decide that they no longer hold those beliefs. I believe when it comes to sex, it's hard to escape the societal norm which in fact is a mask. If society really were to be open about sex, I think we'd find a lot more happens and it's a lot more liberal than we think and teach.

Paul

[Paul]

Hey Rob,

I agree with what you have said and find that the purest form of the message of christianity and islam and judaism and almost every religion is love and be loved. Unfortunately that's not enough for most who take it upon themselves to "play their god" and cast judgement.

It's such a loving thing that the folks at church do for you in terms of acceptance and support.

 I read something the other day it resonated with me.

"Parents, remember that your outer voice will become the inner voice of your children when they grow up"

Paul xx

[Gruffudd]

Isn't it scary how we end up so like our parents in some ways, most teenagers say it will never happen, I was one of them once... 

Each time I hear someone going on with that mean judgmental stuff I find myself holding onto the idea that the world can be changed for the better, and that the answer in part comes from the queer community. So many of us find ourselves working to nurture others or volunteer somewhere or have children of our own, and in those roles what kind of 'parents' do we want to be? When another LGBTI kid comes to my agency will they feel welcome, valued, and capable? I know what it is like to be both privileged and marginalised, and can see the destructiveness of both those ways... I think those of us who can stand up and challenge for better should, remembering that some in our community still can't - this is how I think we can break up that guilt and shame. Those voices of the 70's who said, "we are born this way" and "glad to be gay" saved me so much heartbreak.

Rob.

[justinok]

The problem is that religion dictates a lot of our laws and societal norms, even for the non-religious.  The objection to marriage equality is entirely driven by religion. Access to proper contraception and abortion for women, religion again. The objections recently to the documentary about gay parents of kids being shown in NSW schools, religious.  The funny thing is, these people have all the power and control and they still feel like they are the ones being discriminated agaiinst.
My early experiences around my sexual identity were driven by guilt that came from religion. I'd go as far as to say I became HIV positive because of them.

[Paul]

Here Here!

Do you feel like sharing your experience with religion and sexual identity and how that impacted your HIV status?

Paul

[justinok]

Hmm let me think on that for a bit 🙂 sometimes it's a bit of a trigger. I should have added the whole "unclean" paranoia that gets thrown at poz people has religious undertones too. And that bleeds through into wider society. You see guys on dating sites or apps saying they are "clean" as a way of meaning that they are neg. hmm, OK, so what does that make me then?