Sexual Health and the Idea of Never Having a Partner

[Azzdog]

Hi everyone, I'm not sure how to put this but hopefully it will make sense.

I am a 24 year old male who currently is in therapy and sees a psychologist regularly. I have OCD, anxiety, depression, and autism, and when you put those all together, it becomes understandable why socialising is a major problem for me. One major cause of my current situation is the fact that I have never hd a girlfriend or had sex. Because we live in the digital age, it is almost impossible to avoid the fact that a lot of people are in relationships and that modern society is obsessed with the concept of sex. You would almost have to live on a deserted island in order to completely avoid all the triggers associated with it.

My cause of concern is that I have no one that I can relate to on this and that I feel like I struggle to articulate how bad it is for my mental health. My psychologist says that I am well in the normal distribution for young men but that doesn't really make me feel any better. Because I am shy, introverted, and have a lot of hobbies and interests that are not in line with contemporary society, I genuinely feel like I will never have a girlfriend, never have sex, and die alone. This fact alone has meant in the past 6 months, I have had 5 separate stints in a psychiatric ward due to concerns of my own safety. I was wondering if there are any other young men out there who feel the same way and are currently in the same boat, and if there are any young mens health groups around? I feel the latter would be important for me and reassure me that I am not the only one who feels this way.

[Azzdog]

I have no hope. Women find me repulsive and unattractive. I have nothing that is attractive and there is nothing I can do about it. I have given up on dating sites because seriously what hope have I got on one of those sites? I am a clean cut, shy young man who has interests that are not aligned with the contemporary mainstream. Pleeeeaaaaasssseeee. Move on son, you have no hope whatsoever. Let the thick-as-plank guys have their fun. There is no hope for someone like myself to make it on the big time. I have to know my place and suffer in eternal damnation in the pits of hell. What a messed up world we live in.

There is no possible context for me to meet women. The board games group? That won't happen for a couple of weeks and they wouldn't be interested in me anyway, because its moi. The ugly, messed-up-in-the-head moron who is awkward and a repulsive sack of matter who doesn't deserve to live on this planet.

If there are women on this forum, could you please answer this question. What is it about those morons who can't think and have no real interests in life that is so attractive? It seriously cannot be because their confident because, no offence, that is an extremely low bar to set. I have played football with some of these guys and you should have the comments they make about women. They're not good people everyone, when will people (women) learn? I seriously am puzzled by this because I don't know what I am doing wrong.

[Quercus]

Hi Aaron,

You asked an honest question so I will be honest in return.

The difference as I see it IS confidence. It is truly that simple.

Not just confidence though but not being needed. Being wanted just for you rather than what you can give someone is a powerful feeling. Even if behind the scenes the true attitudes towards women are shown there is still something appealing about a person who does not need you to be comfortable in themselves.

I was reminded today of how people pleasing backfires on us. I often fall into old habits and try too hard. I may mean well but sometimes people make it clear they see me as annoyingly needing approval. Other times as obnoxious or irritating. And like today I cop the brush off. And how it HURTS.

For me I'm not talking romance but friendships but the same applies.

The best advice I was ever given (and it took me a long time to accept it let alone put into practice) was to stop and think hard about whether you are trying too hard to get validation from others. As adults we need to learn to validate ourselves.

And funnily enough it is attractive. An example. Hubby wanted help fixing a gate. He had an idea of what he needed me to do but his communication was crap. And he started getting ridiculously angry at me. Rather than keep trying I put my end of the gate down and told him I am not a mindreader. So rather than being rude and making me feel crap he can tell me specifically what he needed. Or do it himself. But I'm not a dumping ground.

He stopped and stared. Apologised. And was a hell of a lot nicer for the rest of the day.

So... This is not my story. It's yours.

It is not the role of a partner to make you feel worthwhile. That is dangerous anyway to rely on someone like that. What happens if the relationship ends? You are back at square one.

I'm anticipating a reply like before where you point out that I have the benefit of knowing someone, anyone, finds me appealing. But that is bollocks.

Yes I am loved. It came at a cost. I was belied I needed to be wanted/desired/needed somehow to validate who I was. The type of person that attracts is not worth your time. A hunter/user. Then it is back to square one feeling just like you do now. But worse because you've allowed yourself to be taken advantage of.

What made a difference? Accepting I deserve basic kindness and respect.

I don't like myself much at times. That's ok. I still expect to be treated as I treat others. That's confidence isn't it?

Nat

[james1]

Hello Nat and Aaron,

Your discussion about what women want and why "morons" are attractive prompted a thought which has been bouncing around in my head for a while, but never had the context to talk about.

So the thought is: why do we (generally) look down on things like wanting to be desired, wanting to be attractive, even just wanting casual sex? Yet, at the same time, why do we often look for partners who give us these very things?

For example, many men complain about women being too clingy. They take too much of our time, etc. etc. The question I have, then, is why do you seek them out? The obvious, and probably true, answer is that they make us feel good. They make us feel loved/wanted/needed. Is that bad?

Also, why do we keep mocking women who take time to do make up or go through such and such beauty treatment? We may not personally think it is necessary, but what is so shallow about wanting to look good? It's no different to dieting or going to the gym or buying a nicer shirt. I used to be so bewildered by why many women dress up for occasions and agonise over what to wear/makeup/hair etc. Then one day I wondered why I bought my shirts rather than picking out some rags on garbage collection day, and I realised I was being quite hypocritical.

We keep looking for others to make ourselves feel better - whether for validation or to put them down for being "slutty" or "cheap" or whatever term is in fashion. Can we not just accept that people are different and have different wants, and look inward instead?

I hate looking inward because I don't like what I see, but that's my problem to deal with and I can get help for it. Too often we project our self-hatred onto others and start seeing everybody as ugly too. All these people are so insecure, or so clingy or so narcissistic...maybe they are, but what's that got to do with me?

I watched mean girls yesterday for the first time. I actually found it really humbling - as adults we think of ourselves as more mature than teens. Yet we respond to our insecurities in just the same way.

James

[james1]

@Aaron,

More specifically for you, you've described yourself in some pretty negative terms there which I don't agree with, but I realise it feels very real to you. So I guess I am wondering what you think you need to not be those things you called yourself?

Would you like to tell us what you think you want to change, and what you want to keep the same?

Your opinion of yourself seems to bounce between scum and better than other men. I wonder if you have had a chance to stop and really take stock of what you have.

James

[Azzdog]

See, there are two problems that I have found i what you said.
Confidence. I have believe, and have always believed, that confidence is overrated. If thats the bar you set then thats a really low bar to set. Because some of the most genuinely nice people I've ever met in my life, who were authentic and true to themselves, were not confident people. I've always believed 'ignorance is bliss' applies to these people because they are not deep thinkers. They don't think about the world in the same way I do. I read a lot about politics and I am scared to death that WW3 is going to happen sooner rather than later. This has brought me down so much that I went to hospital for it. How can you expect me to find some form of confidence when we have gone past the point of no return on climate change? Seriously. I have a lot on my mind constantly but I care deeply about trying to reverse these changes, help improve mental health services for young people, trying to teach the young generation coming through, trying to help my friends with their mental health difficulties (trust me there's been some heavy stuff thats happened this week that I was genuinely worried for someone else's safety). What does that all say about me? It says that I am loyal, respectful, honest, and trying to do what I can to change things around me. And guess what? I severely lack confidence. So can we stop with this idea that somehow confidence is the be-all-and-end-all please? Just because you lack confidence does not make you any less of a person. It sickens me.
And another thing, you keep assuming that I am this needy, whining-for-attention kind of person. Please, please, please stop that. I have made this far IN SPITE of what people have done to me. I have had to rely on myself to get me where I am today. I have been mistreated and disrespected for far too long. You say you believe that you were allowed to be treated with respect and kindness? Why am I not allowed to be treated in the same way? Seriously, when you say its not the role of a partner to make you feel worthwhile, then why are you married then? I am sick to death of this condescending attitude towards single people. Do you even know how hard it is in the dating world? Particularly if you have crippling mental health problems that make people seem uncomfortable to be around you? This message has made me really angry because it highlights just how easy it is to forget what it was like to be single.

[Azzdog]

You also say that you treat others as you want to be treated.... what do you think I've done all my life??? So stop, stop, stop calling me needy. Stop saying that I need a partner just to love myself. I know full well that won't be the end of my self-loathing. Haven't you also considered that I have had a lot of awful friends in my life? Haven't you considered the toll that would have been built up over the years of being rejected by women? My dad has cancer as well which I'm not dealing with well at all and my family are struggling to deal with that on top of my condition.

Here is what I am trying to say. Firstly, lets dispel the myth over confidence. It is not the defining characteristic of someone. I personally believe that people who lack confidence are quite attractive because there is something quite humble about knowing ones limitations. They may not necessarily be correct in thinking they can't achieve something but it is quite refreshing in this time of humanity's existence. Too many people in this day age go into situations guns blazing and don't give a damn over who they hurt.

Secondly, I am not a needy person like the one you keep assuming. I have the same needs that everyone else has. I would imagine I have the same needs as you do. It's just that, time and time again, I am astounded by the amount of rejection I get from women and the inability of anyone to tell me what I am doing wrong. I have had terrible experiences with people and its shaped who I am today. Quercus, all I want is what you have. Does that help contextualise what I want, or am I still needy?

[Azzdog]

What I want is a functioning social life. Not much but but just something small who understands that I have difficulties in certain situations. Obviously I want a girlfriend. I want a job that is meaningful and brings the best out in others. I would like to do some volunteer work in the mental health community and I would love to be able to bring more awareness to body image and sexual health and how they are interrelated.

What I would like to change is my response to triggering stimuli. I would also like to change my overall physical appearance. I would like to be better at guitar and I would like to have better social skills . What I would keep the same would be my interest in music, my morals and values, my political beliefs, my sense of altruism, and my undying loyalty to those who treat me as I would like to be treated.

James, honestly I do, I wonder what life would be like if I didn't have the same musical tastes as I do? What would happen if i drank alcohol? Would that open up more social opportunities for me? I honestly feel as if these things were different, would my life be any better? I can play guitar, I am authentic and genuine, I have a broad range of interests, I am training to be a teacher, I am a keen traveller, I am passionate about improving mental health services for young people; this doesn't seem to be enough for anyone. I have a lot to offer, I just never get the opportunity to express it because I'm clearly not allowed.

[HamSolo01]

Hey Aaron

Sounds like you're in a particularly hard place at the moment. That's probably an understatement too.

Your point about confidence is interesting and also an important one. However it sounds like you've confused confidence with what I'd call cockiness or arrogance. The people you describe who trample over others display bravado, cockiness and arrogance. My view on confidence is that one has to ground themselves in real, well founded intentions and beliefs about themselves (the sort of stuff you've spoke about in relation to being a good friend, genuine and independent in mind and spirit) so I'm a little stunned as to why you don't think you are confident. You have every reason to be. You are intelligent, humble, aware of your limitations and genuinely concerned about good issues. You should be confident because of that. This does not mean one can't be humble. Humility and confidence aren't opposed to one another - arrogance and humility definitely are however.

You listed off a range of topics there ranging from the global down to the personal. Focus on the latter first I should think. What's one guy against the world right?

Your desire for companionship is one I share. It's one we all have. It's what makes us human. But I'm wondering what you can do in the meantime to stave off some of the inadequacy you feel because of your single status? I know what you mean when you speak about the culture and its insistence on relationships and sex etc. I guess the great thing about living in this day and age is our freedom to ignore, disagree and live out our lives free from persecution for thinking otherwise. So what can you do to tune out from the crap spouted everywhere?

I'm also sorry to hear that about your dad. That is tough stuff. On top of your own situation as well. Could you do anything to keep the bond with your dad intact as much as possible? I'm sure he'd love that. You are his son after all.

I'm not sure what else I have to say in response to a good deal of what you've written. I guess I can only ask what you want to get out of the forums and what you would like us all to say or do in response to some of the self hate that you are expressing. I mean it's your thread, say what you like yeah? But I'm not sure we know what we can say in response to it. That is of course if you want us to say anything at all.

Might leave it there for now.

Take care mate.

[james1]

Hi Aaron,

I hope you don't mind if I touch on something you said in your post to Quercus first?

You said: "Just because you lack confidence does not make you any less of a person."

I totally agree with you that a lack of confidence (in terms of being comfortable in your shoes) does not make you any less of a person. But Quercus was answering the question of what is attractive, not what makes a better person.

If you were to ask instead, what makes a person dateable? Well, confidence would be in the mix, but as you say, it's not the be-all-and-end-all (nor do I think Quercus was suggesting that). It would be values, confidence, personality, "chemistry", and probably a good deal of luck as well.

Just a note: you said nobody is able to tell you what you are doing wrong, but I gave you my opinion earlier. Perhaps you did not agree which is totally fine, but it does make me sad to hear that I tried to help but I'm being lumped in with "nobody".

Anyway,

You have mentioned a lot of the things that you would like to do and I think you have a really great list which is quite broad as well. I think you absolutely deserve the chance to get what you want, or at least be able to give it a real go.

It is good to have a think about what you'd keep and what you'd change, because it can be your own barometer about what things may be hindering you from your goals.

For example, you mentioned you wanted to change your response to triggering stimuli. This is something I had to do as well because I have an incredible fear of abandonment, and I respond as if I'm a sociopath, and nobody wants to date a sociopath.

Do you want to share what kinds of things you are trying to work on, and whether we can help you at all with that? I think you mentioned you have a psychologist as well who is helping, right?

James

[Azzdog]

Hey Mitch,

Bravado, cockiness, arrogance are great examples of why I think confidence is overrated. Because too often it is misconstrued for this very things you listed there. That’s why it baffles me why women chase after men like these who don’t give a damn about their feelings. These just so happen to be the same women who then blame every other man in the world for their misjudgment. It annoys me to no end. I guess it’s natural to be stunned. I have very well defined beliefs on a lot of things and people have said to me that they are surprised I’ve never had a girlfriend. That’s what makes me angry, if it’s obvious to them why isn’t it obvious to women? I’ve simply had it now. My therapist is genuinely worried for my safety right now. She wants to see me first thing Monday.

What I do to tune out of the crap spouted on TV is to just not watch it. I watch comedy shows and gaming shows on my computer or documentaries. I play guitar as much as I can and I focus on my work. However it’s lonely. I’m mostly on my own and I do feel like crying everyday.

I guess what I want to do is to highlight the significant gap we have that exists in the public health system. There is a vast amount of knowledge we don’t have on the subject of body image and sexual health. I also want to challenge anyone who makes condescending remarks towards single people and try and change that narrative. I’m sorry to pick on you Quercus but what you said about me being needy and “the job of a partner is to not make you feel worthwhile” has really put me in an awful mood. Also this fascination over confidence is why so many people get hurt in relationships. Because we forget the line between confidence and arrogance and too many people get hurt in the process. I’m not needy, I just have the same needs as everyone else can we please get that into everyone’s heads? I’ve so many bad experiences with women that I don’t take rejection well. That’s the issue here.