Narcissistic Dad...and his blame game.

[Aria87]

Over the past few years, my dads behavior has taken a toll on my marriage.

My father treats my husband like he does everyone and anyone. Hes rude, he talks about people, and blames everyone else for any action. My husband had enough, and cut himself off from my parents as he was over my dad calling him only when he wanted something, then when my husband would reach out back he would ignore him or reject his calls if it wasnt a convenient time for him then my dad would stay all quiet acting like he did nothing wrong. Months have gone by, and my dad hasnt asked where my husband has been, because he knows he has stuffed up again. But my dad, will blame my husband and also backstab him to my brothers. My mum would ask, as she is the fixer for all these situations however my husband wont back down now until my dad contacts him back and my husband wants to tell my dad how he upset him so he can learn to stop doing it to him. My husband will every now and then comment about my parents, and i believe this is unfair as i have accepted what they have done, i dont ask my husband to attend things or anything. my dad would call, and call when he wants something, then i would call back when it works for me and he would drop comments like how hes disappointed i haven't gone over sooner, blah blah blah. as strong as i try to be with this, it manages to get under my skin.

and, whats worse, i work with my family, so i cant always stay away from my father, unfortunately. 

im anxious that when it comes down to it and i tell my dad what he did, he will just blow up and blame me and my husband over and over again causing MORE troubles. its like he picks a fight with a new person every month. 

[Aria87]

I have felt that all my life...  after this mornings hash out, he still thinks he is correct. He keeps saying im the liar,and i shouldnt talk to him the way i did.. when i replied, as a father you shouldnt of ignored me for 3 days. 

He still manages to convince my brothers that he is right, and that i shouldnt be mad if he comes to my house unannounced (my husband hates that!) and tells me my husband needs to get over it for him to do what he wants. I disgree 100%. I have always said, i didnt marry you, i married my husband. he hates to hear that.

The comments of this weeks victim, i have said to my mother as she is understanding and too knows how my father is. I told my brothers flat out, if you want to listen to him, do it, hes a liar. And they just laughed.

Its like they are afraid to admit it. 

I will definitely google and read your request! 

[white knight]

Families can have habits that remain though they are bad ones. This is because they dont think they are bad even when pointed out to them.

A good example of that is your dad convincing your brothers that he is correct is a form of engaging support from his sons as a means to make his position stronger. That isnt very mature nor is it productive when it comes to being the head of a family that is suppose to lead by example. Again this is an example of how his habits have formed. The real challenge you face is growing so that you take over as the one that leads by example. How difficult is that?

It's really hard but I'll try to give some clarity- 

• Your dad labels you are a "liar". Leading by example is to not label him as one rather reply like "I dont agree with your account of that incident". It stops the-  you are - no your are.. type arguments.
• Your dad seek the support of your brothers to ridicule you. Better not to reply to your brothers as " if you want to listen to him, do it, hes a liar". Better to say "if you choose to believe him thats your choice". 
• Turning up unannounced when you both have informed people of your desire they contact is mildly violating your rules. It isnt uncommon for family and friends to "drop in" so this is a grey area even though its your rule. So, in light of the more serious issues here with your dad, better to be a little more flexible on this topic and at least be thankful your dad feels comfortable enough to drop in. Talk to hubby and see if he can at least allow this imo
• "as a father you shouldnt of ignored me for 3 days.". This is another unacceptable aspect of his behaviour but I dont think he'll change. I have a relative that doesn this and I palm it off as "Joe has the ..its so I'm staying away for a few days". Better that than trying to change an oak tree for a pine.

I think you are brave to stand up for what you believe in. Sometimes however it is preferable if you want family to remain in your life that "absence makes the heart grow fonder" and as you said "I married my husband" and thats where your life as a whole, is, to focus on what goes on under your roof and allow your dad to drift enough away that his habits and techniques dont bother you near as much.

Make sense?

TonyWK 

[Aria87]

Hi Tony,

You are so right.

Bad habits, that i never want to teach my child. I agree!

I did when confronting my father tell him, i would NEVER ignore my child for 3 minutes let alone 3 whole days, its not right. And i hope he heard me, for his own sake. And even if he didnt, my brothers understand because our dad does it to them also. More so the middle son, and i get that treatment.. as we dont allow people to say we did one thing when its a lie, whereas the eldest is the people pleaser and wants to respect the fact he is our dad.

I most definitely will be taking on the - i dont agree, if you want to believe him thats your choice.

However the fact my father cant 'drop in' is because he has such a clashing with my husband over his lies, and my husband saw right through it. This was too a trigger for my father, that fact he didnt win the situation and had to apologize.

I had a chat with my mum today, to see what she was told, and he told her nothing.. because he knows very well that my mother would not be happy with what he has done, again and again and again.

As i dealt with this on my own, i felt i didnt need to express to my husband what happened.. as my husband is very protective of me. My dad gets very nervous after these events, as he isnt sure how people will treat him when they find out what hes done and said. So next event will be interesting to see how awkward my dad is around my husband, yet again.

I dont know how my mother has dealt with him over all these years.

She used to defend him.. and now when we chat to her as support, she understands 100%. 

My dad can drift his drama into someone elses home, trying to be funny! 🙂

Hope youre having a nice day too!

[white knight]

It's tough on you, being the parent of a parent. 

Apart from full disconnect with a relative, we have to make effort to maintain some form of stability if possible. To do that apart from the more mature and subtle communications and wit as posted with that link I posted, we can when we feel like it, inject some encouragement. Eg

My mother I havent seen for 12 years (she's 92yo now) was the most hellish tyrant, narcissistic person ever. However, she had a nurturing side when I was a boy. This made it harder to break all contact because it is a side that I treasured and still do today. I've always said to others that enquired "Her good points are wonderful...her bad points I cannot live with".

So several times when we were in contact I tried to maintain peace and when the opportunity came I would say to her "you were a good nurturing mother when I was young". Thats because it was the truth. It made her feel valued and a good mother but frankly that encouragement didnt work to the extent of me being able to make inroads into her then behaviour in other ways like her cruel ways.

The effect of being truthful can sway someone to feel appreciated and sometimes that can repair some damage. Eg to your father if you said "dad, you provided for your family and worked hard, no one can take that away from you". Then followed up with "I'm concerned that not so truthful statements are made that hurt us, I'm hoping that can stop".

This technique is called "greasing the cherry tree" I dont know where it came from lol (and it isnt on google) but it means priming your communication in a - praise before education process. It can have limited success and can prevent an explosive argument to a more calm exchange.

TonyWK

[Aria87]

I must admit, i am very emotional... naturally. so when talking or if i am upset about something i can easily cry and raise my voice. But i have found when the excuse of ïm your father dont yell at me"is raised.. and i stand my ground stating "when i am in the right, and someone is telling otherwise i will fight till the end" seems to put realization into everyones heads. I have started to respond to my siblings when they involve themselves in what i do with"if you choose to believe him, thats on you" but when pushed again out of anger i repsond with "dont belive dad" and i storm off. I would NEVER push my brother to do things, never. Yet they involve themselves, more so my middle brother. I have come to terms that the way i felt as a little girl, too scared to ask a simple question because my dad would always be so angry and controlling is where i still felt as an adult, and i need to work on that feeling that im no longer that kid, and he can no longer make me feel this way.

Although we are moving on from our fight, slowly... he still manages to find ways to try make me feel guilty.

I just have to keep reminding myself he has the problem, not me. ANd just because he expects everyone to run around and be around him 24/7 i dont have to. Might buy him a cherry tree for Christmas? 🙂

[white knight]

LOL.

Some of the comments I've develped or picked up over the years to tackle these sorts of problems-

• responding to someone interfering in my relationship with another person "that has a lot to do with me, a little bit to do with my father and nothing to do with you"
• "So why are you commenting"?  They then give a reason so you say again "so why are you commenting again"?
• Replying to someone nasty "if I wanted my worst enemy here I'd have invited you"
• Responding to someone gaslighting me eg "he still manages to find ways to try make me feel guilty"... "gaslighting originated from the movie gaslight of 1944, have you watched that movie to learn how to do it"?

Some of the above are sarcasm, I learned a long time ago that if you are not equalising the battle ground, like a tyrant of one country... you will be run over. Then when you are defending yourself others on the outside will say "it takes two to fight".. which is rubbish if you are defending. Simple rule- they should mind their business.

As a rule I often expect loved ones to ring and say "how is it even possible that you are so nasty to your mother"? My reply is "why are you interfering, my relationship with my mother is between me and her... it there anything else I can do for you"?

Yes, stand you ground and apologize later if wrong and you'll be protecting yourself.

What do you think?

TonyWK

[Aria87]

I totally love the comments, however im growing as a person to answer in a calmly manner. i like people understanding what they are doing wrong, and admitting it to then leave me alone. LOL!

my middle brother, the most trouble maker had found himself in a pickle with his own wife.. as he seems to be doing my fathers ways with his own home, in which his wife does not appreciate. maybe now my brother will realize how right i actually was. .. not was.. AM right! 

[white knight]

Im glad you found benefit from our chat. Feel free to post again here or in a new topic. 

Study Borderline Personality Disorder.  It might help.

All the best

TonyWK 

[Aria87]

You have helped immensely! i cant thank you enough!