My estranged daughter turns 21 today

[Jstar49]

Hi everyone, I'm completely new here so Hello and thanks for being here.

It's my eldest daughter's 21st birthday today and I'm feeling pretty emotional about it. She hasn't spoken to me in 4 years, and refuses to have any contact with me, my husband or our 10 yr old daughter. I was a single mum with her, stayed around her dad's town in order for her to have a relationship with him but finally left when she was 8, to return up north and be closer to family. That's a whole other story.

She was impacted by my PND, for sure, and things have always been intense between us. Chaotic too. Interesting, but not exactly stable. My marriage when she was 10 was the start of some kind of normal, and now I've never been so content or mentally/emotionally stable, even tho I still need to take care of myself, not get overwhelmed, and watch myself re: taking on others opinions/judgements.

I worry about her but I tell myself maybe it's for the best, maybe she just needs time and space to discover who she is, and learn to forgive the mistakes of the past and accept herself and myself for who we are.

It's hard tho. Today I just would love to see her, see her smile at me, hug her and tell her how proud of her I am. And hear whatever she has to say.

Anyhow, thanks for listening. I know there's others out there with similar stories. It seems like the world just needs a course in family harmony! It's so sad for the kids that get caught up in it.

Cheers,

Jstar

[Jstar49]

Hi Sleepy,

thats an interesting thought!- For me, beginning to think that 'my parents are doing the best they can' even now, enables me to think more compassionately about them. I have to recognise that my mother hasn't had the type of culture I have, one which empowers women and values healing. She had no choice but to just accept her husband, and soldier on thru her own PND, which she also never talked to me about directly. Tho she did talk about it to a roomful of women she was mentoring. It's strange isn't it, how awkward and stilted family relationships can be.
I guess what I want to focus my energies on is living without being angry anymore. Without harbouring anymore old, rancid anger which has corroded my soul. The only anger I want to feel is the sort which motivates me! To make change, and do good stuff, or defend the weak and vulnerable.
However, I must say that I first had to find my anger, and be really really angry, before i could come to this point, of not wanting to be angry anymore! I have been angry for many years, and in recent years spoken that anger- most notably to my dad! It didn't go down so well, but maybe it was always going to be that way.
So maybe that person is right. That by saying to a trauma survivor that 'your parents did the best they could' it robs that survivor from being able to get angry, really angry.

I also think of the connection anger has with boundaries, and I cannot help thinking that if we are empowered to get angry, at a young age, then we will have healthier boundaries as an adult/young person. Which would protect from a lot of trauma!

Heaps of love,

J*

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

The handy thing about leaving a comment is it's still gonna be there when you're up to coming on and reading it. Glad our posts are a positive for you. I understand you needing a break, I get a bit sick of myself sometimes, too. That's probably a good sign that we're more interested in enacting change than grumbling about things. Sorry to hear you've been sick. Only recently came good from a bug, myself. It's not what we need when we're already overtaxed and exhausted. Doesn't sound like you've quite recovered yet.

A couple becoming more independent can be a good thing where the relationship is healthy, but it sounds like little departures from the norm aren't agreeing with your husband. Ultimately that's his problem, whatever the potato skins signify to him, he can think on and discuss with you reasonably, not the muttering and snarling. I think I saw somewhere that he has once again turned his back on marriage counselling? That's not a great sign for getting through these little things that blow up into big things. It might be worth reminding him that if it seems like he's the one having to work hard in those sessions it's because you've been willing to work on yourself independently and have been doing just that, you're not just sitting on your hands.

Yes, truth is always more complex than that, and conflict tends not to be resolved without an acknowledgement of that. I agree, we all choose our path - for some that means "going with the flow" and/or feeling like they have no choice. In reality, not actively choosing is still a choice, and still has consequences. Mindlessly conforming is just dooming ourselves to repeat the mistakes of others and learn nothing. Then again, I'm noticing there's a conformity to "non-conformists", too. Gotta pick it all apart, make decisions on every level, and make sure there's a reason, not just following the dude in front. Er, excuse the rant.

I'm inclined to agree with you about anger and boundaries, I've found it instrumental in drawing a line in how much BS I'm willing to give a person leeway for (after all, none of us are perfect). Many lines have been drawn, and it's a skill I value greatly. Hasn't quite protected me from trauma, but I'll wager things would have been a lot worse without it.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Dearest J*, I could really hear the pain in your voice in your posts. I'm sorry I wasn't here throughout all that. You're going through a lot of realisations and confirmations atm aren't you?

Seeing d must have been shocking. Esp in the way she treated you. I'm sorry that happened. My heart breaks for you, Hugs.

Reading what you and Sleepy and Blue said was really interesting.
Not sure if you know or remember (not sure if I posted about it but think I did)... when Alexa blurted out THE most confronting stuff to me - my instincts had told me "this was coming" for a long time and it CAME in tsunami fashion.
Woah.

I told her I was grateful she felt she could pour it out.
I also told her I'm not Qualified to help her process all these memories, thoughts, feelings, trauma.
Telling her this last thing broke her and my heart but it was true.
I can't!
My Counsellor had been preparing me for this moment, I'm so grateful she "went with me" and prepped me, otherwise I would have fallen apart completely.

The FEAR I had was all consuming.

After this majorly uncomfortable and totally unresolved phone call, she phoned her friends - can't explain their incredible back ground. One of them runs an International "Anonymous" group online which has been especially approved by the Organisation.
He asked if he could "do an Intervention" with her.
She did it. Just on one point of her rage and anger towards me.
It REALLY helped. (I can vaguely remember doing this decades ago with my Mentor in an Anon program - I went to many of them, basically for connection and understanding about "what to do" with my thoughts etc which was really trauma but I didn't know).

Alexa was then able to repeat this process again on other points. It was too much ofcourse. Then booked into a Psych and got a cancellation appt that week.

This style of Intervention and the other process they ask us to do (which is like a stock take), doesn't involve the other person BUT it grants huge relief to the sufferer.

That's where we're at. WE are the sufferers.
Because we are the sufferers, WE need help.
I know it's not fair the perps don't acknowledge any responsibility but ACTUALLY they don't need to for OUR healing.
Possibly to fully heal the r/ship - yes. But not US.

I hate the "they did the best" garbage too. But we get angry bec we want them to acknowledge the harm they did.
Mostly they won't.
Head / brick wall lol.

We can still heal. We MUST heal.

Empower YOURSELF.

Love you all
EMxxxx

[Jstar49]

Hey em,

Thanks hon, hugs are welcome!

Thats so true- that we get angry becos we want them to acknowledge the harm they did us.

Its a difficult one to process.

I tend to do most of my processing on my own thesedays. not sure if thats the best option- it feels like the only option with the level of adjustment required for work, and the effort involved in making appts.

Ah, my marriage is a lonely place! I guess part of me is accepting that, most days. Today I had moments of seeing very clearly that this cannot continue indefinitely.

I told him I'm beginning to feel like i'm in a relationship with a crazy person. As soon as I said it I was a bit worried! Why did I say that? Anyway, maybe it made him stop and think. He didn't react in the way he could have.

He wants to tell me how it feels, for him. I don't want to hear it. He doesn't want to hear what it's doing to me, to our relationship, to continue to disbelieve me, and be so antagonistic at times. And nothing I say in response to his 'concerns' (fears, would be more accurate) makes any sense to him. He's like a broken record.

School holidays!

And covid restrictions....

Even regional NSW is required to wear masks. Def a new stage in the covid journey.

My first holidays working right thru. Still, it's a bit of a break.

How are things going for Alexa now? I shall catch up on your thread. I'm so glad for both of your sakes that she's getting help. Bound to be full on for a bit, but the only way is forward.

Love

J*

[Jstar49]

Hey Blue,

Rant away! One of the things I like about this forum is the ability to just...vent. And stand on my soapbox sometimes, on an issue. It's reassuring that others can skim read if it's not interesting to them!

Yeah, H is hard work. We had been having quite a good day, which suddenly changed. Strange really cos I'd been coming to terms with life, and lowering my expectations. No Hollywood romance this! Anyway. Can't really be bothered. It is what it is.

Tonite, while I lay in the bath, and tried to relax, I realised that I was feeling much as I used to when I was a child, and my dad was in a mood. Most of the time btw. I had the whole fight/flight thing going on. His footsteps made me cringe, and I kept hoping, every time, that they weren't coming into the bathroom. Just like I felt about dad, hoping he wasn't going to be around, wary of him turning his anger on me.

Its the kind of behaviour that provokes a reaction in me, but I know that when I try and describe it, it doesn't sound so bad. But for me, it's awful, and I can't understand why he would be behaving this way one hour, then the next be saying he loves me. The two seem completely incompatible to me. I think that if he truly did love me, he wouldn't be so untrusting. He wouldnt be so suspicious and nasty and awful. He wouldn't hate my facial expressions, or half the words i say. He wouldn't belittle me, or disregard me.

But I don't really know much about love.

Some days he can be very loving.

It's confusing.

J*

[ecomama]

Dearest J*

In your last post, you describe an abusive relationship with ribbons of narcissistic abuse threaded through.

Your responses are perfectly normal in this situation. I want you KNOW that.

What you're going through is as a victim of domestic violence but with a person behaving as a narcissist would.

Narcs give "kibbles" (you need to read up on it to understand this more).... they do this JUST when they see or sense their victim is recoiling / withdrawing from them or far worse for the narc, becoming independent - a narcs worst fear. (I truly believe that narcs have been emotionally abandoned and neglected as chn, a victim leaving would trigger these abandonment schemas).

They KNOW what they're doing, they just don't have another way of operating.
It's their M.O.

Between BF and I, we came to an expression we often use 'some people don't have the capacity to love'. This is better understood after reading "The Road Less Traveled" and having more understanding of personality disordered individuals.

It's no mean feat, trying to survive a marriage like this J*.
I completely understand the confusion.

For me, now things are as clear as day, but it took YEARS of study, processing, reflection and dare I say ALOT of first hand pain to deeply understand but better yet SEE things with a clarity I've never had before.
I'm grateful for these lessons, ones more easily understood now they are in the PAST.

I know T is still young.
You have time to get your ducks in a row, get Family Law advice, strengthen your career.

When the time comes, it's best to be able to springboard out with knowledge, understanding and resources.

Love Always
EMxxxx

[Guest_1643]

hey all

j i relate a lot and if its okay to say i see you blame urself and feel that perhaps you are in a way responsible....

it sounds really hard and i see u are questioning if it can go on. hugs. it's hard to feel that way, and i relate in many ways.

[Jstar49]

Hi Sleepy, Hi Em,

Hey thanks beautiful women! I know I just don't want it to be as bad as I think it might be. I want this to be able to be 'fixed'.

I do blame myself Sleepy. Less now than I used to. Interesting becos I was almost catalogueing, last nite, the ways in which I have or I could modify my behaviour. Noticing triggers, working out what I can avoid, what I should say in future.

This really sux.

I have a friend who likes him, as a person I mean, she's very happy in her relationship. Anyway, it's made me doubt myself a bit.

Part of me thinks, well, no relationship is perfect.

I don't know what to do. Apart from, continue on. Working, becoming more independent.

Anyway. Thanks for listening.

J*

[ecomama]

Dearest J*, I'm so sorry it sucks, it does. It's really hard!

I'm really feeling for you. Hugs.

BF said today "it's really hard to prove your innocence" and I think this is one problem.
But it doesn't really solve the whole problem, does it?

I'm not sure if H is a narc but so many behaviours you've described paired with your reaction, show a tendency for sure.

One thing is that a narc needs an empath, that's you.
So when an empath is in a relationship with a narc they DO take responsibility for things going wrong all the time.
Just as a narc wants.

But then again narcs on the extreme end of the spectrum blame everyone else but themselves for every tiny little thing.in their lives. (I knew one of these).
So in efforts not to upset them, and to attempt to keep the calm, we scurry around trying to make everything within our power, "right", so as not to upset them even more.

The thing about that is that the storm is INSIDE the narc.
The turmoil, fear, need for control is inside them.

And we can do our best but then they up the ante, change tack, increase the responsibilities on us.

One narc catchphrase is "I have all the rights, you have all the responsibilities".
There are various ratios of this imbalance dependent upon where the narc is on the spectrum.

Lastly (for this post lol) is sorry I didn't respond to your feelings of being lonely in your marriage.
J* that comment really hit home with me.

It IS LONELY.
You craved true intimacy.
Not only the healthy, loving sex life with your husband that you're within a reasonable person's expectations of marriage!
Also the close connection kind of intimacy that comes when your partner truly has your back and you can feel safe when feeling vulnerable.
You CAN be vulnerable.

From how you described feeling when you were in the bath, you don't feel emotionally safe.

So going backwards from that ... if we don't feel safe, we won't expose our vulnerability (we armour up), when we can't expose our vulnerability, we can't feel truly connected and intimate with our partner.
Hence the 'loneliness' you describe.

I wish you could have your own Counsellor to connect with and be beside you during this time.

Regardless of that, we are always here for you.

Love you lots!
EMxxxx

[Guest_1643]

hi EM

i had a narc in my life previously and i found ur comment just blew my socks off - I have all the rights, you have all the responsibilities...

it is hard. i know about trying to fix and please ppl who are not interested and really just draining...

sending love out