Can Love Your Family,But Don’t Have to like them as People

[ABC01]

Dear All,

I have been told by many people including mental health professionals,that you can love your family members, but don’t have to actually like them as people. Or even choose them as friends or people you would interact with otherwise.

 I am finding this very truthful at the moment. Throughout the years, I have consistently lowered my expectations and they still haven’t been met. And if I were to label them from an outsiders pov, narcissistic,debasing, gaslighting,enabling and the ability to not be empathetic would be words I’d use to describe some of my family.

Sometimes I have come to accept that this is a certain aspect of this person and still find a way to love them,knowing they won’t change. It hurts and it takes some time to come to terms with.

What are your experiences/thoughts on this titled topic?

And when if you wouldn’t stand for it from a friend or acquaintance,do you not stand for it from family?

And then what choices do you have?

Thank you.

ABC01

[smallwolf]

I don't mind talking about it.

And this is something that I have said to my psychologist... I feel I'm 13 years old still. 

Except the looks are different, and I am jaded and cynical.

But I feel like this around people at work as well - the 13 year old. 

[ABC01]

That is interesting smallwolf,

I have often thought I am trapped at 16.

I obviously have aged. But my life experiences have stopped and alot has to do with my dependency on my parents. And the fear to go against them on my own, for the criticism and what would happen if I failed.

 I definitely have more sarcasm. And cynicism.

 I am currently trying to figure out how to be independent without them. Moving out, a roof over my head, food, my car and medical expenses. I honestly have no idea how to achieve this. And not feel lonely. But I have to go slowly. I don’t need to cut them off cold turkey,but I need to find my own two feet. And they don’t cover all my expenses in life. I have my own budget. And have found services that are low cost or free. It is more that they are there in emergencies. And the roof over my head.

Thank you for your honest answer.

ABC01

[smallwolf]

I feel my parents were over-protective and controlling. For example in my high school years I was not allowed to socialize. And when it came to going to school, parents had neighbours kids (at the time) watch after me on the school bus. It is nice they cared but it was also too much. Of course, this is just a small glimpse into those years, but it is also the reason I navigated towards extreme music - it was a way of letting out frustration and otherwise. I do have to add that I was more open (to ideas) than parent to ideas, but parents thought these were evil.

So...while I have children, married, earn a living to help pay bills, and stay healthy, I am also detached from it all, because of the above. Or maybe what I feel is normal?

As for you... take your time. It sounds like you’re going through a significant and difficult transition, but taking the time to think it through and move at your own pace is a positive step.

It's completely normal to feel uncertain about how to achieve independence, especially when there’s a lot to juggle—living expenses, emotional support, and the fear of failure... Small victories along the way can help build confidence.  (Interested though in what you define as failure?)

[ABC01]

Hello,

In my life I have been taught from my young teens onwards that it is sink or swim. No safety net under you. Pass or fail. First time around. And that if you did fail, there would be alot of people waiting to take advantage of you. Failing is weakness. Failing shows you are weak to other people. Granted my family has been in situations where this was true. We had to fight/advocate for one another. But those situations were intense/circumstanced and came only every so often. Not all day, everyday. My father being ex-military was shaped very young by the military. He is very rigid, almost emotionally void and practical. But to protect us, he taught us to fear everyone. That they want something from you. That we shouldn't just go with the flow with others. That there can't be just nice people in the world. And he still does believe that. We didn't have extended family around us, we still don't. So it is us against the world. (Granted I understand how he may feel like this. How those experiences we had would lead to those conclusions. His POV. I have empathy and I am an adult now too and see more and understand our circumstances more than I ever did as a child. However, he doesn't want to change that POV, even though circumstances have changed in our lives as they have gone on. Doesn't want to see that what worked for him, may not be suitable for today's time and climate.)

I get criticized if I park a little off in the garage or driveway. I haven't blocked the driveway or ran over the garden roses. I often get corrected if I say something in a conversation. Even just yesterday he tried to cut me off to correct me, I kept going and we said the exact same words to finish the sentence.

Failure to me can also mean, having stood at the fork in the road and stared for how many days, weeks or months it takes me to get the courage to pick one, I choose one road and it is "wrong" or doesn't work out for me. No one ever taught me, that I can go back to the fork and try the other road. So, I stand and stare at that fork in the road. Scared to try any of them. It makes me feel like I am stupid. Actually like I am not an intelligent human being.

Failure means criticism, belittlement, embarrassment and decreases my confidence and self-esteem in my ability to be an adult. Hence why I feel like I am stuck at 16. And this is all linked to anxiety.

When I feel this pressure from my own home and I get a job, if there is pressure from there too, my stress builds x2 and usually I get too overwhelmed to stay at my job. I don't recall many experiences in my life where I have been uplifted. My expectations of my parents are so low they have started burrowing into the earth under my feet now. I do remember small kindness from them from time to time though. Like when I had a panic attack right before my last exam in high school, my Mum picked me up with a bottle of champagne, a plush toy cow and a tiny foil inflated balloon saying Congratulations. If I ever mentioned I had my period, my Dad would bring me home a block of chocolate. My Dad has set up Excel spreadsheets for me as I don't know how to use it. The formula's go straight over my head. 

The sad thing is, that if I don't have them, then I don't have anyone else. So I choose to stay with them. I also do love them. But nothing really gets by people in my house, probably because they are bored if I am honest. They know where you are going ect. So if I were to try to get independence, they would know and be judging how I am going. I know I don't have to tell them everything. But they will be judging. And so, this is why I fear failure so much and haven't actioned my independence before.

Thank-you for asking and listening smallwolf,

ABC01

[smallwolf]

My dad was like yours in regard to being emotionally void, and very practical. And very rigid in his thinking. And thoughts about failure. 

And perhaps he also shows his love in the practical like the excel workbooks. Just thinking out loud here. 

Then the way forward might be to the accept that you and he won't agree on some things and for other things it could be "that's just ...".

But I really wanted to talk about failure here. Keep in mind that I am over 50 years old when this happened and as I say this. I was talking about failure with my psychologist and this was probably over the course of a few sessions and in one she told me to read a book about inventions through failure. Things like the donut was an invention of failure ... Hanson Gregory impaled his fried dough on the ship's steering wheel's spoke to keep his hands free while navigating rough seas.

But the real kicker was listening to a Ted Talk in which Brene Brown talked about failure and how many attempts other talkers tried to get their thing (invention) to work before it did. As much as it would be nice for things to work first time... we only (?) learn really through failing.

And this brings me back to something from my psychologist ...

a mistake (or failure) is an opportunity to learn from.

And as much as I hate that, it's true.

[ABC01]

Dear smallwolf,

Good to hear from you again.

 I love my dad and knows he loves me. So yes, the excel worksheets might just be that way of showing me support. However the critical analysis of my every move,may too be out of love and not wanting me to get hurt. But I do get hurt anyway in life. And it is easier to be uplifted then be brought down by the people around you.

It is interesting what we use today that were considered failures of there time. And how long it can take for people to get their inventions to work. I mean Apple did a pretty great job in defining a whole market, with just an ipod to start. However, I am not Steve Jobs. I am me. I can’t imagine what it is like to be so rich,you don’t have to worry about anything.

Your psychologist is right. There are always opportunities to learn from everything,not just failed attempts. Risk taking is a developmental stage I missed in my teenage years. That has been diagnosed and recognised by psychologists. It is so hard to make a move as I am frozen in fear.

But in my anxiety journey I have sat in many uncomfortable situations until they become comfortable. I just need a 3 or 4 week head-running-start to make a move.

 I wish everything just wasn’t so complicated.

Fight, flight, freeze or fawn. I have to deal with this on a daily basis. I am a little tired of it now.

Thank you for listening and replying.

How have you been doing smallwolf?

ABC01

[smallwolf]

You said:

 I wish everything just wasn’t so complicated.

100% there with you on that statement. I will give you a longer reply tomorrow. Today (Monday) I felt quite flat and empty.