Questioning some things

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Those of you who know me know I have been bouncing from one rough life event to another for years, without really any time to take a breath in between. I can state well enough the things that have happened to me, but haven't had much energy to delve deeply into what those things have done to me. In the time off work since my partner had major surgery (yup, another fun crisis), I had time to start pulling at threads, to get a Mental Health Care Plan, see a psych and talk to a counsellor. As much as I always knew my life has been a steaming pile of crap, the threads I am pulling are connecting dots and giving rise to possible clarifications of events and what has arisen in their wake.

My childhood was severely neglectful. Mostly emotionally, but also in some physical ways. We kids didn't sleep in the (perfectly good) house, we slept in a caravan nearby - Mum cleaned up her and Dad's bedroom and the kitchen after the mouse plagues, but apparently our rooms weren't worth the effort. He carries on about her "unfit" parenting, but it's not like Dad did anything about it either. We were fed and clothed well enough. Never a lot of attention from either of them. I don't remember a single hug from either one during my childhood. Mum would immediately disinfect her hands if by some chance she came to touch one of us. Some years later, post parental divorce, Mum's settlement money ran out and we endured a brief stint without a home, a much longer (years) stint of inadequate food and no hot water.

I actually became pretty functional after moving out. Worked, studied, maintained a place on my own. Went through a couple of less than healthy relationships and endured with surprising resilience. Then came the last relationship. First two years, no major problems. Then bam, he's unfaithful. Enter ol' Blue's depression, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Damn fool remained in contact with him and we tried again at the relationship. To be fair, he didn't repeat that particular mistake. He tried hard to redeem himself and be a better partner. Until the ring was on the finger. Engagement in place, all effort fell away little by little. Dear gods did the neglect become overwhelmingly severe. I kind of got that there was a theme, but it's literally only now, years after breaking up with him, that I see why it was that straw that began my depression - just how closely what he did mirrored my parents' behaviour.

[Jstar49]

Hey guys,

Blue I'm so impressed with you buying 7habits! Good on you!

Yep, I picked you for the independent type. Nice mental pic with your man gently guiding you twds interdependence...Heaps of love there I can feel it.

Thanks for what you said, about not blaming my self as I'm doing this work, but rather, be gentle and take a 'modify' approach (my interpretation of your words). I CAN be hard on myself!

Making heaps of time for fun and relax times atm, along with reading my books, hence haven't been around much. I'm still getting headaches which makes me want to avoid computers.

That thing about trauma re life events- so true that it depends on your personality /character, and where it impacts on you. I remember talking to my bro early on re our upbringing, and for him it was fine-then- but for me, being highly sensitive, a girl, and teased into the bargain, the physical aspects of the punishment hit me early and hard, being related to my self esteem much more than for my bro. Trauma and damage are very personal I think. For some ppl it can become a means to their armour, for others it's the stumbling block which takes literally years to unpack.

I guess the thing is to honour your own experience, try not to compare too much to others except where it's helpful, and find what works to get to a plce where you can thrive.

When I look back on my life the thing I'd most like to change is the constantly critical voice telling me I have to be other than what I am right now, whether that's hurting, lonely, afraid, sad, happy, mindlessly drunk...lol! It's that judgemental voice which causes so much damage.

Hey Em, I love the Brene Brown netflix special! I like the 'story I'm telling myself' bit- altho I'm guessing it only works with someone who is prepared to go there too. Unfortunately any attempts at this kind of stuff with my sis don't end well. Or start well. Or have a good middle.... So I'm left with guesswork, and my own work.

I'm putting Coveys work into practice and focusing my thoughts and actions on what I am in control of. So Em I finished painting some little cards, have chosen one and popped it in an envelope (hand made too lol cos none would fit...) and now I just have to write some words and find out d's address. Being proactive!

If the only thing I can control is how I enact my love, then thats what I will do.

Found lots of inspiring Brene Brown quotes to encourage me in this work of vulnerability (sorry Blue 😉

Cheers,

J*

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

Good on both of us, methinks.

Yeah, I'm not a wallower. Watching my mother just makes me loathe that sort of thing even more, I see what her life could so easily be like vs what she chooses for herself. I come home wanting to clean and minimise every time I've been to visit her. As for your mum, she can't rescue any of society if she can't even manage her own household, that is a perplexing mentality.

Yeah, there's the whole narcissistic altruism thing going on. Sure she did a fair bit for my partner surrounding the surgery but there was a strong sense of doing it to look good, you know? As his dad said, "When it's about him, it's about her being about him". And so when the chips were down, she went from working with me to "if we can't both see him every day, it's me, I'm the priority". Who the hell says that? I said no, my partner is the priority and he didn't move hell and high water to make sure I was interstate with him so I could sit in a hotel room worrying about him while his mother had a paddy about thinking she was more important. You can take a guess how well she took that.

I don't think you need to hear that to know what not to do as a mother-in-law, EM, you're just a better person than that.

Honestly, I don't blame your kids for picking carnival over your ex. Totally different situation, but it does bring to mind my mother often commenting on how Dad just "went off to the football" while she was giving birth. Really sets the stage for what followed, doesn't it?

What the heck was wrong with your in-laws? As you say, you weren't together any more, not your problem. What did they think they were going to achieve, delivering him to you? Can I ask what you did, when that happened? (No pressure to answer.)

Yes, I understand. Parting ways with the man-child took a lot of weight off me, too, allowed me to be there for myself, even though there was a tonne of stress and work for me to get through I wasn't being pushed out of existence by someone else's thoughtlessness.

Haha, fair enough with the caricature. Me, I prefer not to imagine them at all. Put them behind me as much as possible.

Yeah, boundaries. Before the surgery I used to sometimes have lunch or go walking with the mother-in-law. Haven't since, that's for sure. Yeah, I don't know why she bothers, either. She's not without some good points, but how she behaved re the surgery, there's no trusting her after that. No way.

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

Cheers. Seemed like it could prove useful. Still haven't read much, I got engrossed in Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

Haha, methinks I'm pretty obvious with that. So bad at asking for help, certainly never expect it. Yes, my partner is very loving and supportive. We've been together for years, but it still hasn't really sunk in. Gonna take some time.

No worries. Yes, you've interpreted correctly. Be gentle with yourself. I think that's a big theme in this thread, we all struggle with that somewhat, if for different reasons.

I'm really glad you're making time for fun things, J*. Sorry about the headaches, though. Do you know what's causing them?

Yeah, I'm finding trauma is so different for different people. Interesting your gender comparison with your bro. Funny how my bro and I reacted much the same and it was my sis that came out different. That said, I was very much a tomboy, took a pretty masculine stance about a lot of things as much in terms of strength and responsibility/role as in appearance and suchlike. I could go on about the Myers-Briggs personality thing, INTPs do not like traditional gender roles and just don't fit in them. That's me all right. Anyway, yes, trauma is hugely personal. For me I'd say it's been both armour and a stumbling block, if that makes any sense. EM might relate.

You're right about honouring one's experience. I've not consciously done a lot of comparing myself to others, but it has inadvertently come up in trying to identify trauma. It's literally been defined so often as reactions to acute, physical things, kinda hard to draw from that to identify my own crap. I'm not sure if that's a matter of comparing myself to others. I dunno.

On the bright side, working on your inner voice is something you can do at any time. I don't have the answers for how, got some work to do there, myself, but I would say step one is identifying it. Notice what you're telling yourself and challenge it when it's not helpful. That should help you accept just being, instead of wanting to be otherwise.

I haven't seen the special, but I'm wondering, is the "story I'm telling myself" thing necessarily relevant to communicating with the other person? Seems to me like something to apply to your own thinking, to shift perspective on it. Just a thought.

Nice work. My psych is big on focusing on what we can control. Rightly so, I try to keep that in mind. It's come up in Rich Dad, Poor Dad, too.

Oh no, inspirational quotes! Haha.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Hey J*

How very sweet the way you made those cards to enact your love. Hugs.

"Be persistently and consistently YOURSELF" my C told me during that huge long (corrupt) separation from eldest d for me. I really hear you and I'm so sorry this has happened and is happening still.

Sorry to hear about these headaches... Blue asked if you know what's going on, so I'll read any reply you may give.

Yes what a GREAT piece of work by Brene Brown!! omg I love that woman lol.

Agree, you almost need a psychological screening on a person BEFORE using that line...

From what I understand you would only use it in a close, trusted relationship. So far EVERY single time I've used it with BF it has ended so beautifully.

So the sentence is more like "So when _______happens (OR when you say or do ____) the story I'm telling myself is_______".

It takes alot of willingness in the other person to love you because of your vulnerability.
Opening oneself is NOT a safe space with all people, that's for sure.

Only SOME ppl as Brene also points out.... don't care what ALL people say about you, just SOME people who you can trust to pull you up when required. People who love you.

Since I've used this "magic sentence" BF and I haven't argued. NOT EVEN with super sensitive topics!

Anyway it's been fun trying it out on him lol!

COVEY is divine.
Just too amazing for words.
Did you know he and his wife had NINE children? lol.

I cried for 2 days solid when he passed away. He had a bicycle accident coming down a Colarado mountain or somewhere mountainous in the U.S. Wow what a man.

Nice to have you back J*, really hope you're looking after yourself.

Love EM

[ecomama]

Hey Blue

"What the heck was wrong with your in-laws? As you say, you weren't together any more, not your problem. What did they think they were going to achieve, delivering him to you? Can I ask what you did, when that happened?"

Short answer, everything was wrong with them lol!!!
LIKE EVERY THING.

Long answer, after D Day I kept kicking demon OUT, then it went to it's parents (I guess lol who cares), then they kept sending it back! (They didn't want the baby either).
Like probably over 100 times.

Eventually demon used the "this is MY House too, you can't legally kick me out" line. Makes me sick to my stomach. (18 months later I literally SPLIT the house, changed the locks on the TOP storey, left the bottom storey to demon. demon kept breaking in to our storey, stealing, doing all sorts, it was scary).

demon in-laws took their version of their religion's stance which is the OPPOSITE to the Bible's word (they're Catholic) saying:
- Once you're married, you're married forever (to which I replied then I'm still married to my FIRST H lol)
- it was a sin to divorce (I replied Jesus said we're ALL sinners and the Bible gives ONE reason for divorce - adultery - there it is, I'll do a photocopy for you, read the Bible some time - they hated that I knew the Bible better than them lol).
- it was my "duty" to look after him (yah nup lol, adultery means we are no longer MARRIED and never was I found out later).
On and on bs bs bs. I said alot more but it might come out over time lol.

Basically they trained ALL their children to marry someone with property. Drain them. Divorce them and get 50%.
demon was desperate to prolong the marriage another 2y to make MY Inheritance part of HIS % in Family Law - I found out later in Affidavits - what a nut.

SO it wouldn't leave.
It was MORE than a nightmare, it was an IRL DV nightmare of all types 24/7.

I had to Report them all to Police and many other places.
Report to the Royal Commission bec of what they did to their children, the sexual harassment of me by them also, blah blah blah.

Extremely mentally ill and dangerous ppl all of them.

Yes I relate to the ARMOUR and PTSD stumbling, 100%.
I needed armour for all those Court cases against EVERYONE.
The Courts most esp, the disgusting Court Consultant's interviews and reports blerghh.
demon was even able to charm & manipulate THEM! demon could cry ON CUE, uses this every opportunity.

If they were educated in DV AT ALL they would've seen right through it.

EMxxxx

[Jstar49]

Hullo lovelies,

I have missed you guys!

headaches I thought were hormonal but maybe when I’m working at a table slightly too low. Being more conscious about engaging my core seems to be helping. Headaches used to be a major prob for me in my 20’s etc but have been really good , maybe until studying last year. So Idk. Eyes, hormones, back...?!

lol blue I feel like popping a quote in! I won’t I promise 😉

what horrible ppl there are in the world! I literally feel sick when you talk about your experiences with your ex Em. Can understand the armour...

yes, the lesson of only being vulnerable with those who have earned that trust is a lesson hard learned. It’s funny tho, becos good boundaries with that makes it easier to be friendly and caring, I’m finding. I guess instead of having walls and fears I have clear boundaries. Well WIP but yknow what I mean.

Blue I think in our family the abuse WAS gendered. Thinking about it, it was almost a calculated attempt to keep me down. My sis was much more compliant and shy/ quiet, so had an easier time. But I was a tomboy too, outspoken, feminist from young age.
In the scheme of things, not extreme, very common. Separating the aspects tho, and learning to name it, and hence get some power in the situation, took me many years.
my brother also learnt that the way to be on side with dad was to tease and ridicule. I was told it was a joke. Funny. Haha. Not.

Some physical also was very shaming, even as a teenager.

interesting that it’s taking the Brene brown teachings about vulnerability for something to click in place for me. What was my Achilles heel could become my strength.

Covey-9 children! Wow! He had lots of kids to practice his life’s work on. I’m guessing his wife was likewise amazing. Sad he died. I didn’t know.

cheers,
J*

[Guest_4643]

Hey everyone.

I never know what to say, but I'm thinking of you all.

[ecomama]

Yes 9 children!

The "Families" book of 7 Habits must talk about it applying to Family alot more lol.

His WIFE WAS / IS AMAZING. One thing he wrote in his book was very telling actually lol.
Can't remember exactly but I think they had 4 washing machines lol.

The story of their Wedding Day and how he took her to a park and what he spoke with her about what so powerful for me. Gorgeous.

YES! I found when I had issues at work I would dip into the 7 Habits.
When I had issues in my family I dipped into the Families one.

Ofcourse they haven't been completely comprehensive when dealing with MH issues within family, not sure if ANY book could be.

demon yeah.
Thanks J* - hugs.

My friends first jumped to major revenge over all this, like MAJOR.

Whenever I feel angry, upset or even questioning demon now, I remember what a twisted narcissistic psychopathic brain it has and know the utter hell it must live in 24/7 with it's "needs".

That's enough to evaporate any 'revenge' for me.

Plus Child Support ofcourse lol!!
Eventually the Child Support Agency DID chase it for Child Support lol!
$20 something / month it REFUSED to pay.
Based on lies ofcourse.

Most came out. So the CS went up LOTS for a long while.
Oh diddums.

Fancy having to WORK to support yourself! LOL!

I'm good
Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

Ugh, I guess at least you had two stories to the house to work with. Nevertheless, that's a dangerous and revolting situation to be in. Everything you've said about your ex and his parents fills me with disgust, that anyone could even think that way, never mind bring it into being with action. Not much more to say, really - that's my take on everything you have revealed thereafter.

You're quite right about all the religion/marriage stuff. My mum still considers herself unable to have another relationship because it would be "adultery", despite being divorced since I was a kid, Dad having remarried since, and the simple fact she reviles the man. She creates her own misery, she really does, and there's no talking her out of it.

I knew you'd understand about it being both armour and a stumbling point. I didn't deal with courts re any exes, but the banks were bad enough, boy do they rip you off and make things hard just to get a name off the mortgage. As for courts, I dealt with them as a kid. Parents' divorce and all the custody crap was a mess. Everyone turned on Mum, real cute since Dad did nothing to help her or us, his coldness worsened her mental health and his neglectfulness meant nothing changed for us kids, he just blamed her and left it at that. The court accepted that for Christ's sake. And you get these ridiculous counsellors asking us (kids) what we wanted the outcome to be. It was like they only asked to throw it in our faces and do the opposite. The whole circus taught me from an early age that "authority" was a word for people with all the power and no wisdom. Even pre-puberty I could see how messed up the system was, it was I think the seed from which my cynicism grew (and grew, and grew, oh how I continued seeing it as time went on).

Honestly, EM, I think 99% of the people in the court or any other system of "authority" have blinkers on. "This is what the book says, I get my cheque at the end of the day, what more is there?" No wisdom, no judgement, no understanding of individual situations. Nothing. The 97%, I guess - and frankly I call that figure generous from what I've seen.

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey J*,

Good to see you, too. 🙂

Okay, so studying seems to be a factor. Eyes and/or posture are likely to be relevant, then. Maybe a visit to the doctor and/or optometrist?

Thank you for refraining with the quotes!

Yeah, EM has really been through it. Some of the people I have dealt with were disgusting enough and weren't half that bad. How do any of them justify being like that, with no effort at improving themselves, just sinking further and further into depravity? I will never understand.

Trust is a tricky thing with trust, especially when we start life without especially trustworthy people around us. First have to learn what it looks like. I agree with you about boundaries, though. It's a better place to work from than fear and allows for a healthier outlook on our interactions.

Ah, that's not good. I understand though. Whilst the neglect was overarching, there were definite gender themes with Dad, too, more subtly than with yours. My sis was also the meek and obedient type (outwardly), started getting sneaky and stealing money and stuff when no-one was looking (unsurprisingly that stopped without the influence of our parents, later). Rebellion manifests differently I guess, I was always more up front with my rebellion. Sorry that your bro got caught up in the abusive behaviour for attention crap & that you were shamed. Sadly, as you say, it is very common. Doesn't make it right.

I am reminded of a scenario with Dad. I saved for ages, worked hard etc. to get my first car (cheap little runabout older than I was, but I loved that car). When I told Dad his patronising words were "Oh, a motor car is a big responsibility". Not six months later he bought my brother a car. Granted no better than the one I got, but my brother had zero interest in driving, and after what he said to me... I was so bloody angry. I didn't expect help with it, but some damn respect wouldn't have gone astray.

I'm glad what Brene Brown has to say is resonating with you and helping you with it.

Didn't know Stephen Covey had passed away, either. Unfortunate. Sounds like a guy who made the most of his life, though.

Blue.