Questioning some things

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Those of you who know me know I have been bouncing from one rough life event to another for years, without really any time to take a breath in between. I can state well enough the things that have happened to me, but haven't had much energy to delve deeply into what those things have done to me. In the time off work since my partner had major surgery (yup, another fun crisis), I had time to start pulling at threads, to get a Mental Health Care Plan, see a psych and talk to a counsellor. As much as I always knew my life has been a steaming pile of crap, the threads I am pulling are connecting dots and giving rise to possible clarifications of events and what has arisen in their wake.

My childhood was severely neglectful. Mostly emotionally, but also in some physical ways. We kids didn't sleep in the (perfectly good) house, we slept in a caravan nearby - Mum cleaned up her and Dad's bedroom and the kitchen after the mouse plagues, but apparently our rooms weren't worth the effort. He carries on about her "unfit" parenting, but it's not like Dad did anything about it either. We were fed and clothed well enough. Never a lot of attention from either of them. I don't remember a single hug from either one during my childhood. Mum would immediately disinfect her hands if by some chance she came to touch one of us. Some years later, post parental divorce, Mum's settlement money ran out and we endured a brief stint without a home, a much longer (years) stint of inadequate food and no hot water.

I actually became pretty functional after moving out. Worked, studied, maintained a place on my own. Went through a couple of less than healthy relationships and endured with surprising resilience. Then came the last relationship. First two years, no major problems. Then bam, he's unfaithful. Enter ol' Blue's depression, that's the straw that breaks the camel's back. Damn fool remained in contact with him and we tried again at the relationship. To be fair, he didn't repeat that particular mistake. He tried hard to redeem himself and be a better partner. Until the ring was on the finger. Engagement in place, all effort fell away little by little. Dear gods did the neglect become overwhelmingly severe. I kind of got that there was a theme, but it's literally only now, years after breaking up with him, that I see why it was that straw that began my depression - just how closely what he did mirrored my parents' behaviour.

[ecomama]

Dear Blue

I responded on your other thread (and another sorry!).

Yeah wow, you've stumbled across the whole PTSD arena and matched yourself to it BY yourself!
That's amazing, sad and horrible too that it took sooooooooo long for this to be "discovered" by you.

That's hard!
FINALLY you are getting answers that make sense. Sighhh.

It's also really hard work! And you're putting in the time to research. Boy I found some sites very triggering, so I had to admit I wasn't coping.
YES! It was when everything seemed to be a trigger was when I went to see that trauma psych.

I had to stop watching the news.
That seemed the first easiest step. THEN to fill that time with "other stuff" THEN to ask ppl NOT to talk about covid this and covid that with me.
First step.
Still needs to be maintained all the darned time but that was it.

It didn't work. And gosh I'm sorry you were separated from LM for all that time. Awful.

Wears you down.

Thankyou for all your words on self-care too!
I hear you and I get the sense of it, I think it's the "self-worth" of doing it that I push against.
Something like that anyway IDK.

I'm glad you do those lovely things for yourself! It makes my heart sing and you shine a guiding light to us that simply can't see ahead. It's dark and black lol.

You are really magnificent Blue, taking such loving care of LM. Being such a GOOD FRIEND here and I'm sure IRL.
Moving through this time with the strength you do.

I admire you so much.

Thanks for being here and sharing so much of your journey!

I read about the shame stuff you wrote about. If you can explore Brene Brown's stuff I think you'll find it very welcome information in regards to shame.
We can talk about that and anything you feel you want or need to.

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hi again,

Yep, found your post on my main thread and have answered. You can stop apologising now, it's okay!

Yeah, I do figure out most things on my own, EM - that's how it is with me. If I'm to be honest I feel kinda dumb for not putting two and two together a lot sooner. It's not like I knew nothing about PTSD or hadn't seen it in other people. The hiccup was recognising my own experience as trauma - I had never come across any of it identified as trauma in all my readings, seems you have to be looking very specifically to find that. Also I guess I tend to downplay my own stuff, thought I was being a big sook and shouldn't be so affected by what I'd been through. I wanted to put the drama away - I profoundly hate drama - and just get on with my life. That worked well enough for a goodly portion of my life. Until it didn't.

Whilst our experiences are somewhat different, I do see a lot of parallels with us, EM. That mountain of triggers is the last straw, isn't it? Early on, there are a few, you can turn away from them and not engage. But eventually there are so many that anywhere you turn there is just another trigger, and another. It's exhausting, and miserable.

You're doing well, turning off the news and working on boundaries with people (though sounds like they're not making that easy). I don't watch the news either, albeit for different reasons. Yes, it sucked like hell being parted from my partner, not knowing how long he had to live, if they'd get a donor on time, if he'd survive the surgery, etc. One of the reasons I hate my job so much - I was there to pay for survival, sure, but it kept me from everything that was most important to me. Boy does it wear me down, you're right about that!

I hope my self-care perspective helps. How are you doing with feeling a sense of self-worth? You've had a lot working against you on that score, more even than I have. No-one is wholly impervious to that. Maybe engaging in self-care is working back the other way, and helping with self-worth? I hope so.

You're gonna make me blush, EM! I do appreciate your kind words. It's quite something to read that someone sees me that way. Croix said some similar things. Makes me feel like maybe I'm doing something right.

Could you recommend a starting point with Brene Brown, to narrow the search a bit? I guess I should probably address that, it's been a big speed-bump to dealing with all this stuff.

Blue.

PS Sir Pecks is moulting. It's raining feathers on me!

[Clues_Of_Blue]

***Trigger warning.***

Firstly, not looking at Dr Google as a diagnostic tool, but always useful with some food for thought. I have been reading about emotional dysregulation and its relationship with PTSD and childhood neglect and abuse. It's admittedly a bit eye-opening.

My parents made my home environment an emotional vacuum. School, on the other hand, came with bullying, and my first "relationship" (let's not pretend it was really one of those) worked out to be with an overgrown school bully - fantastic. Whilst I have never credited the former with much importance, or the latter with an awful lot more, I can see how the combination of few emotions modelled for me at home then abuse leading to vulnerability leading to further abuse elsewhere really set in motion my tendency to punish myself for feeling any negative emotion other than anger. Anger is useful, it fuels action for change, it protects (and certainly did so for me at school). I worked that out at a young age (pre-10) and I used it liberally. But being hurt, being sad. Oh, that's the stuff of nightmares. How dare I need comfort? How dare I not function at full capacity? How dare I be human? It gets to the point where any sign of those emotions in oneself becomes a huge red flag. If I feel these, and if I show them - oh, hell no! - then I can expect abuse. I don't much care what most people think of me, but if they're in my face, poking at wounds, no-one can ignore that, no-one can fail to be damaged by it. So, nope. Just nope.

The danger isn't the same, now, but how do you undo 40+ years of that message getting shoved down your throat? I'm recognising just how my depressive episodes work. I see those emotions coming. I turn away from them, I shove them aside, I declare them invalid, unworthy - "Stop being a big girl's blouse, it's just X, Y, or Z". I mean, neglect and abuse have been so normalised in my life, how do you call something out as being worth feeling hurt about? Still untangling what's normal, what's a big deal - small things set me off that don't set others off, that they might call small, but they didn't live what I lived. They don't get a tunnel backward into years of that crap opened by every minor negligent act, every thoughtless word, every failing of the system. Anyway, I know I don't allow for feeling those things, it doesn't feel safe to allow it. So down I slide every time, for weeks or months or years. Will be talking to my counsellor about dysregulation.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Hey Blue

Been MIA for a while, whilst trying to get a handle on stuff within myself and the huge bout of crap on the weekend. Feels like years ago but still raw.

Brene Brown? I think you said you don't have Netlfix?
She has "The Call to Courage" on there but also has 2 Ted Talks also now I believe.
She is a Social Worker (with 3 degrees in that) but has been researching:
Shame
Vulnerability
Courage and I think fear? can't remember the last one off hand.

She has cross-matched data from so many interviews and has astounding undeniable outcomes to this hard work over decades. It was hidden in the echelons of academia, so she decided to bring it out into the public arena.

She also has LOTS of YouTube chats and I've listened / watched nearly all of them.
There's something for me to learn in everything she's done. FAR too much in her books!

SO if it's "shame" you want to learn about then Google her name and that.

You may not like her style in teaching through story telling but I do.

Basically she's taught me that to HAVE Courage I need to know that I'll feel the uncomfortable feeling of feeling vulnerable to be Brave.

Love EM

[ecomama]

Hey Blue

I know you are finding your own connections with past experiences = reactions in adulthood and you will continue to investigate these.

I spoke with my friend Lisette tonight (not her real name lol) and she really has so much.
I've known her for over 40y and it's only in the past year she's allowed herself to be more true to the hurt she's felt, lately she's even allowed herself to cry to me.
Hey I didn't ask for that!
BUT I love her and there it is.

It took her 9 months to get a psychologist and yeah... her first one ever.
Her daughter AND son have major MH issues. She's unwell.
Her d and her have a "quick to anger" relationship BOTH ways.

I spoke to her tonight about Schemas. I could see these being activated in BOTH of them recently.

2 of the most powerful things I had in helping me understand my own reactions to others was:
1. Having a psych do a Questionnaire on schemas and give me the results (circa 30y ago), and
2. Spending time researching each of these a number of years ago.

My research was in no way "complete", I don't think it can be with schemas, IDK?

BUT IT ALL MADE SENSE.

Once I DEEPLY understood these I felt SO MUCH FREER in the present time.

SO when someone at work does something and I think "Woah!" I usually look at my work psych friend or ask her if she wasn't there, just to check whether it was ME reacting in a WOAH or that person being a total numbskull lol!
Lately it's most definitely the latter.

BUT psych can SEE when I'm being triggered and it's not usually with colleagues.
It's with clients and their families.
The nature of my triggers there is merely an extension of compassion and empathy.
Not a full blown whatever.

For me the connections of my own schemas being activated were HUGE chunks of the jigsaw puzzle of my life "completed".
This not only created "closure" of types for me which was welcomed!
But also took the mystery out of my reactions.

Sure there are more pieces hey it's not a perfect puzzle lol.
And there's a puzzle over there for depression solutions.
Another for anxiety.
Another for C-PTSD.

And they cross over into a Venn diagram! LOL!

Each person's "puzzle" of their life is unique.
Just as their personal experiences are 'unique' in a way but most importantly their reactions are unique. Schemas help answer the reactions IME.
We may have LOTS in common in every puzzle.
But tell me to draw to beat depression and I'll get anxiety! BUT that works for some.

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

I know. With all that's on your plate, you needed a time out from other people's problems. Completely understandable. Of course it's raw, old wounds were opened and they are not fun to play with. Give yourself some space for that.

Actually, I do have Netflix. I'll keep an eye out (at a more reasonable hour of day). I did Google her, I noticed her definition of shame was thinking "I am a bad person", which I don't relate to or define shame as, so there may be some disparity there. However I imagine there is plenty to be learned from what she has to say.

I'm pragmatic, but also with a creative bent, so storytelling is favoured by me as a way of delivering useful information. Subjects I don't have a natural aptitude for like history I absorb far better if there is a story to convey it. Stories are great.

That last bit makes sense. Courage isn't the absence of fear, it's facing and conquering fear. That said, I don't think I fear being vulnerable so much as I have learnt it isn't practical to be so when that simply leads to a worsening of circumstances. Who wants worse circumstances, right? There is nothing to be gained by that. Now that automatic response doesn't serve me, but it doesn't come with an off button. Gotta build one.

Thanks for visiting my thread, especially when I had a trigger warning up. Hope my post hasn't made you feel worse, I don't expect you to expose yourself to anything you can't deal with for my sake.

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

You bet I'll continue investigating. It's in my nature.

Perchance your friend has only recently begun to feel safe to be vulnerable? Makes a difference in how you approach it, as I'm sure you know.

I'm quite interested in the schemas. I haven't pinpointed anything too specific yet but have only touched briefly on researching it. I'm glad knowledge of them helped you.

In my situation I am usually pretty clear on what has triggered me and why. Recently I'm realising there is sometimes more than one why (same kind of things over multiple events - there is a lot I blank out on somewhat). The mystery for me is more in identifying my life events as legitimate trauma not just me over-reacting, that's been eye-opening, and you helped a lot in making that identification.

Oh, that Venn diagram. Got one of my own happening, a few things crossing over. Yep, we all experience it a bit differently and have a different set of things at play to make that so. Haha, drawing isn't for everyone. I like it, personally, if not specifically for depression.

Oh, you'll laugh at this. My counsellor came up with the idea of giving me inspirational quotes each day to reflect on. Bwahaha! We had a chuckle when I told her how much I hate them.

Blue.

[ecomama]

Thanks Blue, I'll prob spend alot more time in the Staying Well sections since I'm nursing the retraumatising of the weekend.

*** Trigger Warning*** grieving loved ones. Illness.

Yeah Lisette lost her mother at a young age, but has lost around 10 close family who raised her in the last 10y. Plus her H.
Barrages of loss.

Childhood - cruel absent father, very cruel step mother.

She's now very ill.

I understand WHY she has put thick armour on. But in her not dealing with the grief & loss of so many ppl (like how COULD you?) she is only now coming to terms with how that's harmed her.

She's used substance abuse to "deal" or coat or escape or avoid IDK.

Tonight after our call she texted I need to send her an Invoice lol.
***

Anyway, yes I see what you're saying about Brene's definition of Shame.
But it's on a spectrum I think.
I am a bad person being the worst.

What did I do to deserve that? I think is also part of the shame spectrum.
IE blaming oneself for other's actions.
OR lack of care (neglect)
OR abuse.

That's why I was saying that person's adultery had NOTHING to do with you.
It WAS abusive to you.
You went through hell because of it.
Still do to a point in trying to work it out.

It's DEEP betrayal by someone you expected to have your back.

But it was a selfish series of acts by the adulterer for the sole purpose of pleasure for itself.
I have far harsher ideas about it all tbh.

Hope you can get the balm for your healing. You sound alot like me in that once you find an answer that FITS then it can melt away.

Love EM

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

Best place to be when staying well is what you need to focus on. Good choice.

Wow, that sure is a lot of loss, any wonder she's a bit shell-shocked. Never mind all the extra stuff. Who wouldn't put on armour after all that? Unfortunately it does all take a toll, and eventually even armour only does so much. Glad you were able to help her. And there was still humour, which I think is so important to dealing/healing.

Ah, okay. To be honest, I've never been one to blame myself for the actions of others, that's on them. Where my shame lies is in being so affected by their actions, by the sense of not being strong enough to brush off the behaviour of unworthy people. Not that I have a problem with. I do not like to be weak.

Yup, totally hearing you on all of that. I've long since worked out that 99% of how others treat me has a whole lot of nothing to do with me. Unfortunately, it's still me they're doing it to, and that's where we hit a problem; I'm still bearing the consequences of their actions, regardless of any intent or blame. None of the whys and wherefores of their actions take the consequences off me, even once the offenders and their BS are gone.

Similar - finding an answer that fits is the start of it. I'm one to dig deep, the answer is just the beginning of more questions, and more life changes to accommodate any new understandings of my needs. I rather expect you do that part, too.

Blue.

[Jstar49]

Hey Blue,

just wanted to say I find it fascinating that you don’t blame yourself for others actions.
This sounds like a totally accepted fact for you!

I love it!

I really want to separate that self blaming part of my brain but find it really difficult. I guess the childhood brainwashing and the conversations as an adult, always with my mum, always pinpointing my responsibility ( even in a school bullying situation as a child) makes that really hard.
so good on you! And please keep sharing your perspective! I find it very refreshing.
How are you going with the PTSD triggers?

cheers

J*