Is depression a natural reaction to an insane world?

[Unbeliever]

This is a thought I have been pondering for a while.

The default to view depression as "something wrong", or a "brain chemical imbalance" or as "a disease" or something that "needs to be fixed" or requires "medication" or "therapy" appears to be the most common response of practically everyone. 

From doctors, to psychiatrists, to therapists, to the general population, to the depressed individuals themselves... the universal belief appears to be that "the person needs to get help".

But what if... the living in depressed state is correct? What if it isn't an "imbalance" or isn't something "wrong"? What if being depressed is the only natural state to be in for an intelligent, empathetic, compassionate, informed, thinking individual to exist in the current state of our world?

What if to NOT be depressed about is the true indication of mental sickness?

I'm not saying that being depressed is fun in any way... most people on this forum would be well aware that it sucks. But that is not what I'm saying. 

What I mean is... could existing in a state of depression be completely natural for someone living in a place where so many things are obviously terrible... both on a personal level and in the world as a whole?

My reasons for this perspective are numerous. Far too many to write in only 2500 words. But basically...

The real world is an extremely depressing place for any person that cares at all about anything outside of themselves.

Eg. If you care about animals... the reality is many beautiful species are already lost forever, many others are so close to the verge of extinction that even if everyone worldwide decided to do everything they could to save them... they would still be lost. At home there are people that still buy people animals as christmas gifts, refuse to desex their pets, the massive amount of pets put down in pounds annually. There is backyard animal cruelty, the dog racing industry using live bait, shooting race horses with legs, women's hormonal treatments for menapause, the meat industry, birds choking on our plastic half a world away, overfishing. The list goes on and on.

It is reality and it is depressing. Care about animals and feeling "depressed" about it IS correct. And that is one tiny subject in a plethora of subjects.

3 billion people in starving poverty, the water wars, religious fanatics, corrupt governments, womens rights violations, slavery, wars, child rape, etc etc

It's the people that are not depressed that worry me.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Unbeliever,

Seeing as I can't sleep (again), I figured that I would log in and see what's been happening in BB Land at this early hour.

Bear in mind, if you engage, you will be conversing with a brainless person here so please show mercy. Have misplaced my brain, no idea where it is...(virtual) cash prize if anyone finds it for me...

In my grand tradition of derailing conversations on various threads, well, why not do what I do best? Like a bad habit, here I go again...

Actually, I have a question for you. I mean, of course it's completely up to you to answer or not. No obligation or pressure as the call is yours to make. I'm mostly asking out of curiosity more than anything else...

I have stumbled upon a couple of your replies to threads- great stuff! In one particular thread, your compassion shone through and good on you for supporting him 🙂

But dare I be bold and say that I also noticed you ended the post in what I perceived to be a very cliched way. Please don't get me wrong, I don't mean this as criticism in any way shape or form. But you just don't strike me as someone who goes around expressing cliched messages, that's all. And for the record, I don't think cliches are necessarily a bad thing either but I just don't associate you with them, that's all.

Then again, what do I really know about you when all is said and done?Rhetorical question.

So here's the actual question that I want to ask: sometimes when you are supporting people, do you find yourself saying certain things (e.g. cliches), not because you genuinely believe what you are saying but because you understand that there are times where comforting others requires certain language use and putting forward a particular worldview (even if it's at odds with what you truly believe)?

In other words: does your compassion for others' plight mean that sometimes you end up expressing what you think people want to hear because you feel it will help them more than expressing what you truly think, which btw, reflects good intentions and emotional intelligence?

I'm not sure if my question makes much sense. As I said, I don't mean this as criticism but I'm more just curious than anything else. Hopefully this isn't misinterpreted as I really don't want to upset or offend you or anyone else.

My respect (and curiosity)...

Airheaded Pepper 🙂

[Just Sara]

Hey Pepper!

A (not so airheaded) great question. Insight's a blessing eh? Love your form!

Paul...thankyou so much for the lovely write-up! I'm impressed you've gotten thru these posts with your hurting brain. 🙂

NB...Haven't seen you on here for a few days. Wondering how you're going.

Nigel...wrote to you on your thread. It's nice to get to know you better.

Cheers all!

Sez x

[Just Sara]

Hey UB; (Sorry I called you NB last post; oops type-o, my bad)

It's unfortunate your posts were skimmed from your thread. Do you have an idea of the rationale?

You wrote;

'In my case I can't simply "say what I think". Not because I am afraid to, but because I think a lot and the 2500 word limit will simply never allow for everything I think. Plus, most people would struggled to make it through AND not everything I think would be helpful to their struggles. In fact, probably would make things worse.
Additionally, lately what I have posted to this thread (which is MY thread) has been rejected by moderators'

Have you answered my question in this passage?

I'm wondering what you feel is the basis for having this thread. I mean more recently than when it began. Or is it the same?

If I could, I'd like to discuss 'connecting' with people from a 'responding' perspective.

When I read a post, I like to approach it from 'their' mindset to connect with their motives and desires. As well, I contribute what I feel they may benefit from. Sometimes this challenges, but more times than not it's appreciated. I'm not always right either just to be clear.

I have my own thread where I post regularly. It's more about what's happening in my world at the time, a topic of contention, positive appreciation for someone or a community endeavour for instance. Mainly though, it's space for me to be me; flaws and all.

Even though this is the case, I have an acute awareness that many follow my thread but don't post. Therefore I have a responsibility to keep matters appropriate. At times I've crossed the line and had my post removed or come close to it after being reported. I've learned from those situations.

I sense anger in your words. Would it help to elaborate?

Sez

[Unbeliever]

I would if I could Sez, I would if I could.

[quirkywords]

Unbeleiver

Whata great thread. I am making my way through all these threads and my brain is getting tired. I will keep reading. There are so many interesting and different ideas.

Thanks

Quirky

[Just Sara]

Hey UB;

I see you've enlisted an Avatar. Nice one...

Sez

[Unbeliever]

Haha... I finally uploaded one that went through. 😛

[Unbeliever]

So, back to the thread topic...

(Please Note -I am sorry to all those that I cannot respond to).

The whole "is the cause the effect or is the effect the cause" depression concept first came to me about 18 years ago during my 2nd session seeing my 1st psychiatrist.

**** (can we all please take a moment of silence for my poor 1st psychiatrist) ****

Anyway... she was asking me why I avoided going out in public places, why people upset me so much and why I felt obligated to get involved when I saw things that upset me.

She said that perhaps the things that I saw so frequently was only because I was going out of my way to look for them (which would have been a valid point if I didn't devote so much time back then to avoiding all contact with people)... anyway it was then that it suddenly hit me.

She genuinely didn't see any of these things in her day to day life. The bubble that she existed her whole life in, from her bubble home, to the bubble car she drove to get to her bubble job... they didn't allow even the existence of these things to get in at all.

So it was not about whether these things were actually happening or not, not about whether those things happening would upset her, or me, or anyone else that saw them too, or if we saw them if we would feel the need to help or not... it was about designing your life around not having to see these things at all in the first place and living oblivious to them happening as much as physically possible.

Of course I talked to her extensively about this (being general, not using her as an example of course... that would have been cruel).

and after the session I was waiting at a bus stop and looking at this homeless guy lying nearby with everything he owned in a dirty pile next to him (not begging for money or anything, he was just there) and watching the constant stream of people walking past him and the people in their cars driving by... when I saw her.

My psychiatrist in her car driving past smiling and bopping along to whatever music she had on in her little bubble. She didn't see me, or the homeless guy or anyone else as she mouthed along to the unknown song and disappeared into the distance.

My bus came, but I was gone already, walking to the nearby supermarket to buy a cheap 2L juice and some pizza rolls (unemployed then...) and returned and gave them to the guy.

And I realised... if normal happy people were going to fix things, it would have already happened by now... And perhaps it wasn't me that was sick.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Unbeliever,

Hmmm...interesting thoughts...

You seem to have a sense of social responsibility to those around you and that in itself is beautiful. I think it’s beautiful to care and empathise. I bet you made the homeless man’s day 😉

Although can I gently suggest that perhaps you’re making a lot of assumptions about someone you barely know? Say, your psychiatrist, for example.

I mean, just because you saw her happily bopping along to music happily in her car in one, isolated incident doesn’t mean she’s necessarily “blind” to the world’s problems.

There are many alternative explanations as to why: maybe it wasn’t out of a lack of compassion but maybe she was just deeply immersed in her music or maybe she had had a very bad day and she was trying desperately to de-stress in her car. I suppose my point is we don’t know what we don’t know, and it’s a little dangerous to make assumptions about people. My guess is probably almost as good as yours...

I mean, you’re a smart guy, what do you really know about her when all is said and done? She is someone you see (generally) only within a therapeutic setting and where the focus of conversation is you and not her...I hope you get my drift...

And I hope you don’t mind what I’m saying. Maybe think of it as an alternative perspective that I’m offering...you’re clearly an intelligent guy and you like variables, right? So I wonder if you think you have considered all the variables (I don’t mean literally “all” or we will be here forever discussing this) before coming to this conclusion about your psychiatrist?

Just a thought.

Respectfully,

Pepper

[Unbeliever]

Hehe... of course.

I was just describing the quite literally the first time that I remember the thought occuring to me, not the "be all and end all" of why I think it could be true.

Also, it is the 2500 word limit again (if you counted the letters in that post it is quite literally exactly 2500). All the detail that I had to cut out while still allowing the "story" to make sense, creates a much colder and linear post than it was in reality. For example, I completely cut out a big paragraph about the large numbers of people walking past (it was after people were going home from work of course... and yes, yes before you say it I know after a long day people are tired after work). Who did not ignore the homeless man, they quite literally did not see him at all... and this was in the days before people had their eyes permenantly attached to their mobile phones. It is much worse now. Also, lots of small details had to be sacrificed to the "word limit" gods.

Not to mention that there is nothing in that post about anything I've seen in the subsequent 18 years that has reinforced this idea. It was just a singular moment I remember from a long journey in my life experience.

Why I wrote it was because I noticed that many people in this thread (and on other threads) have repeated the thought that depression about the condition of the world comes from "negative media reports on television" and not to do with reality on a local level (in their own personal lives directly in their own environment).

I guess because this is such a common conclusion for people I was just trying to explain in a singular event taken directly from my own life. I see examples of this stuff all the time.

I know that some people do some good things... I'm not saying otherwise. I'm definitely not the only one (and on the rare occassions that I just happen to be there to see it... it can make my entire day)... for example 2 days ago a person on the train gave up their seat when they noticed an old woman get on BEFORE I could and I actually got to sit down for my entire journey for once... which rarely ever happens. Such a simple gesture is so uncommon that when it happens I feel better than if I did it myself.

People DO care. But I have noticed something. People do things for cancer when someone in their own bubble gets cancer, people do things for child terminal cancer when they know a child who is dying, people care about the homeless when they know someone homeless etc

Otherwise not so much.