I just feel like i have no chance..

[HamSolo01]

A bit of context: im 23, studying full time and i work a little bit on the side as a tutor.

Ive been dealing with this crap for 4 years now and it hasn't exactly gotten any better.

As a result of depression and social anxiety ive had no relationships, no girlffriends, no sex, no nothing. Increasingly over time friends are starting up relationships and enjoying feeling desired. I tried tinder once, and actually met a girl who as it turned it out had a fair bit in common with me but because of my depression and anxieties i was a total mess. I screwed it up.. That was just over a year ago. I still haven't been able to get over it. It was the first time i had actually ever been on anything (even though she maintained it wasnt really a date). The only other time before that was with a girl i spoke to at uni and got friendly with. She was insane. Told me mental health wasnt even a thing.. then she just ignored me and that friendship ended in the dumps. I feel gross, less of a man and feel like i will just be on the scrap heap. Whats worse is that it just gets harder and harder as you get older.

If i have another person tell me i must have it good because im a tall guy, relatively good looking (apparently i am according to some, yet i dont think so.. or else i wouldnt be failing so much) and that "the girls" must like me i may punch them in the face. It's warped too.. when people compliment you on your appearance your immediate response should not be anger... but if people actually knew the hurt and pain... i feeel like i should be out there... or else im just gonna regret my young years..

I just feel so alone. My depression has creeped up on me and my anxiety is through the roof. No use talking to my family.. they haven't learned anything. Im not going back to hospital. Its boring. It gets in the way. I feel like i dont belong there...

Anyway. Feels a bit better to say that here.

[HamSolo01]

hey thanks for getting back!

when the person said i looked bored i could of said that i get anxious in larger groups. Like they were all real nice people, not the common garden variety person you'd see on the street. Its funny because i think back now and it woulda been okay to say it. Part of the conversations we were having actually revolved around dating and a lot of the girls there were talking about total ass holes they'd been involved with or had to put up with. Including my friend whose ex was a jerk to her and continues to be as well. Men and women are VERY different. Hearing what some of them went through... seesh.. But i joked with one of them afterwards that i felt better about myself after hearing about all those weirdos haha.

Having said all that, groups like that are rare and ill likely never see them again. because they are out of sydney and it was a once off. But in the end im happy i went 🙂

and yes, you've practically described EXACTLY what im talking about. The environment of a sport club with "the blokes" can be a savage one for the guy who has no gf, nothing on his 'sexual resume', no relationship in the past. It plays into that whole girls are smutty if they hook up heaps, guys are frigid or gay if they dont hook up heaps.

I never talk about this stuff with my parents. Why would i lol? sex is awkward to talk about with family. I know for a fact im not gay. As surely as the earth is round lol.

Without wanting to sound arrogant, im not a bad looking guy. I'd describe myself as being in division 5 of the genetic lottery (so you win something, but then there are those who won so much more haha). I've been told I "look good".

Heres the thing though yeah... I wont accept any of it. You know why? it counts for nothing. These days you practically have to be terrible to women if you wanna earn respect from your male friends. Its screwed up. But if you wanna be included you have to do it. Its a toxic attitude. I feel like travel might be a solution to that as you are free to "explore ones passions" shall we say.

I kinda like the idea of being an outlier. A non-conformist even.

[HamSolo01]

For some reason my last post did not go through... -_-

I must be on some forum hitlist now lol. Anyway..

When my friend's friend said I was looking bored I was able to turn it into a bit of a joke. But when you said that I could've been honest, it dawned on me that I really could've been. The group was a good one and I liked them because they were genuine people. It's always hard when you are the new person that no one else knows (despite the fact I knew 3 people there, it was still hard at first). It won't happen again, because it was a one off but hey... it's something I guess? It's also funny too because the topic of relationships came up but a majority of the stories the girls had were about weird guys who were just creepy/strange/odd. I joked with one of them that I felt better about myself after hearing how weird some people are. Yeah I might be nervous/awkward at first but at least I'm not THAT weird.

That perfectly sums up my attitude towards 'being a man' too btw. What your friend described is dictionary-level modern man syndrome. The sports change rooms back in high school always made me laugh that when you are stripping down to change into sports gear in high school you could be accused of being gay for wanting privacy in the cubicle. Apparently wanting to dress down in front other guys isn't? hahaha. Sometimes they would make us use part of the girls bathroom if there was renovations (but not at the same time of course as that is illegal). Even then you'd be accused of being a girl lol. High school was a treat 😛

I imagine it's probably worse these days in high schools. Much the same in sports locker rooms at 23. Your friend is correct though. There's a lot of shame associated with not having lost your cherry-card. It's the old girls are smutty for sleeping around, guys are 'real men'. I never talk with my family about this stuff. Too awkward. Plus if I have in the past it's always "you don't NEED a girlfriend" and it's like "you kinda do to fit in". People say I must have it good, or expect that I do because I'm tall, well-spoken and reasonably confident. But like they got no idea. All saying that to me does is make me feel worse off it's like a reminder that I'm only young once and it won't count later on. I can't help but think I don't want the respect of the dope. They ought to respect me right? That to me is the reality of being a man. You command respect from others because you choose. Easier said for some than others though.

[HamSolo01]

At the end of the day, I think a culture that tells men what they should be is bad. In the same way it does for women. Men ought to figure it out for themselves. As should women. I'm a firm believer that social constructs are arbitrary and therefore aren't actually in existence. It's only there because we think it is in other words. Like the matrix lol.

The difficulty is however, that you must learn to temper the attitudes of your peers - both friends and acquaintances/enemies. They will likely make fun of you for your apparent 'lack of action'. Either you can lie about it, which only works if you are good at acting (which I somewhat am). OR you can own the decision and make it your own. Granted I probably can do the latter, because me saying "it's my choice" is believable (given that I'm tall etc etc... fit that whole 'typical guy' thing... people have said I'm reasonably good looking - both guys and girls lol but it doesn't count for much when you hate the way you look, want to change EVERYTHING about your life and you are depressed.... looks count for nothing. Plus there is more to people really.)

It wouldn't be believable if a 5 foot guy, pipecleaner build, who didn't know how to introduce himself and struggled with the core basics said it. Most guys would think he was a loser. Whereas if I say it's my own choice, people can respect it. I for one am terrified of attractive girls haha. The good thing is though, that I have some good female friends who I talk to occasionally about this stuff. I think that's why some larger or skinnier people can be happy, because they accept who they are and own the decision they make. I actually managed to speak to a girl today who was on the street raising awareness for a charity - even guessed her accent and made her laugh a bit. It's weird, I don't get it. I still get nervous. Then worry that I seem like a weirdo.

But alas, the loneliness and wonder of relationships is still something that makes me depressed. That's important to note too. There's a distinction between shame and depression over people finding out about my lack of action/relationships AND there's the depression and shame that comes with the lack of relationship/action. One involves the views/attitudes of others, one involves self-image, confidence and how I view myself. It's really the second one that I struggle with.. probably why I'm really good at getting into the 'friendzone'

I feel like travel is a solution? A way of breaking free?

[Quercus]

Hey HamSolo01,

I'm glad to hear I'm finally on the right track going with what my friend told me once.

Yeah it really disturbs and worries me (having a son and a daughter) how it will all be by the time they are young adults. I feel like the world just pretends to be evolving and equal. My friend's 12 year old did sex ed recently and not once did they even talk about consent. Or the rights of both parties (not just the girls) to say no.

My friend told me another thing that stuck with me which you might want to consider. He explained how his mates would try set him up with women. Introduce him. And it would make him feel worse about himself. Is that all I'm worth? He asked. He didn't just want sex he wanted what others had. The connection with another person. I remember him being devestated after a one night stand saying he felt physically ill afterwards.

I told him there is nothing wrong with that! Where does it say just because you're male that you can't want a relationship and love before intimacy? It goes both ways people should feel free to be comfortable to do whatever suits them without judgement. Unfortunately we are our own worst critics.

As to the party... Take it as a learning experience. Next time you'll have that reply to use. If that group is going back to Sydney ask your friends what else is available. Is there anyone you can ask for help to get out a bit more?

I know my friends stopped asking me out at uni to everything because I kept refusing to go. But as soon as I mentioned I would like to go out somewhere they made the effort.

I know you mentioned travel but it doesn't need to be so out of reach. Sometimes It's just a matter of working with what you have and just making an effort to get out and put yourself in an environment where you can meet people. What do you think? Is that something realistic you could do?

[Quercus]

As to attractiveness I have dramas with that. There is a thread called do you love yourself where they've moved onto talking about physical selves and how it affects being able to love yourself. It's worth a read.

I have massive issues with self esteem and self worth. You're not alone there in the slightest. Most of the time at uni I was completely oblivious if someone was interested in me simply because I saw absolutely nothing in myself worth being interested in. So I wouldn't have a clue.

I remember a bloke was saying I was too young to be married (ex made me wear a ring) and then chatting away for ages in the computer labs helping him out with an assignment. My friend was listening and laughed like mad saying how blunt does the poor bloke have to be. He practically tried every line in the book apparently (I had no idea) and I shrugged and said oh well at least he got his assignment done. My point is if you feel crap about yourself you can't see what you have to offer another person and your own worth. Or you mistake interest for indifference like I did.

[BballJ]

Hi HamSolo01,

So much to take from your posts, can I firstly say you articulate very well, I can see why you did good in English. You get your points across and the way you describe them really gets the point across.

I feel I can relate to you on many levels because I dealt with so much of that stuff in high school as well, I was the guy always trying to treat girls with respect and be nice and courteous but it doesn't get you anywhere if you are seeking a relationship and it literally felt like you have to treat them bad and cheat on them to be somewhat respected, I find it extremely odd. I decided however that I was going to continue being a nice person and as you said own it, girls would eventually prefer to be treated well than like dirt, didn't get my first girlfriend until I was 18 either and I always felt I was behind too. I guess it's part of growing up, sometimes it's easier for others and you sort of just have to accept it as well, I find you are slowly starting to believe in yourself a little more, that's what I gather from your posts anyway. I like the fact you really believe and are excited this new psych will help you.. that is paramount to getting the best help... believing in the process.

As Quercus said as well, this is your thread, post as many times as you like, post a few posts in a row to get stuff off your mind, it can really help, others do it on their thread so please do and when we get on, we will catch up and comment accordingly.

My best,

Jay

[HamSolo01]

well now my psych appointment got moved from the 12th (this friday) to the 26th........... what a joke.

Ah well. Looks like it's meds, forums, and treating myself better that'll get me over the next few weeks

With any luck it'll teach me some assertiveness in pressing on AND balancing that with getting help.

I have a list of priorities. Just has to be executed. Need to tune out from all that garbage spouted by the majority of the world. Going to try to go the gym every second day - i find it is a good way to channel the depression and anxiety, basically an outlet for it. Problem is sometimes I actually take it too far and I end up getting angry with myself for not being able to lift enough or push harder. Today was an example - didn't have enough energy as I had to walk back from the station instead of going into uni early as i was planning to do. Forgot my key to the gym.... Can you believe that?? I was soo annoyed.

Anyway. That's life in the big city I guess.

It's only 2 weeks anyway. I think I'll be able to hold out until then.

And yes the whole culture of treat them mean til they're keen is warped. It's often confused with having a joke, being flirty or making banter. The two are VERY different. Call me old fashioned, but I don't think that a girl should be mistreated just so that I can get into her pants. That's just fake. There's no real bond or connection. The curiosity of sex still remains, but it's not strong enough that I'll forego my values. My fear is that one day it will change, I'll chuck my values out the window and that's it then. That person you mentioned Quercus, who got set up and regretted it? Yeah same thing happened to me nearly. I had a mate try to set me up with his gf's flatmate. Rather than just say no thanks I was curious to see what she looked like. She wasn't my type. But I took the guts to say no thanks. If she was my type? Probably would've. But then I doubt I would've gone further. Despite the 'pressure' from others. I think I'll focus on reading good things and informing my thoughts better. Any ideas on that front? That's ultimately what I want I think.

So that's settled then yeh? You'll all go out and find me a girlfriend haha?

In the end I think I just need to refocus and readjust EVERYTHING in my mind. Start employing CBT in my spare time. Read up on good stuff - any ideas?

Thanks again though guys - it's really helpful 🙂

[Quercus]

Hey HamSolo01,

I'm just about to go out (emergency TLC for a new mum) but saw your post.

Grr I hate when they change the appointment. Sometimes it's the lifeline you hold on to hey. But we're here and the reading is a great idea.

Also the group therapy you looked into... Any news on that? It's time to reach out and ask for support. Friends. Family. On here. Ask them to help you keep busy on the bad days. Keep taking those small steps forward HamSolo01 😊. The gym is great but having people around you supporting you is even greater. Is there a friend who will hit the gym with you? Or maybe a class they run at the gym where you might meet people to talk to?

I've recommended this a lot but it's beautiful...The New Manhood by Steve Biddulph. Pretty mich anything he's written. Raising Boys. Raising Girls. Manhood. You name it it's worth reading. And probably helpful as it challenges male stereotypes. Let me know what you think if you read it I'd be interested in a male perspective.

Take care HamSolo01. Little steps and day by day until you see the psych. It will be ok and we are here for you. Write and vent and talk whenever the need hits ok.

[HamSolo01]

Ive considered making up a diary type thing where i record stuff that happens which is good and/or bad. Funnily enough im doing a subject atm which all about happiness (philosophy of it) and it has made me realise that i may actually have cause to be happy DESPITE dealing with this mental health stuff.

I spoke to my folks about this, figured there's just a HEAP of anxiety over what happens after i graduate. Thing is i dont have a steady job atm so im just freaking out. Im glad ive caught myself doing that though - opportunity to deal with it.

Despite the fact my psych got moved, ill probs still see the old one because i have got a session scheduled for this evening. Might as well air these greivances out yeh? Taks what i can.

Ill look into those books. They sound interesting.

Personally i think the thing atm which is triggering most of my depression can be summed up in a single word - regret.

Regret over the last 4 years of my life basically. But i must always remember it could've turned out much worse. I used to be very religious. Like VERY and that was my own personal choice. I have my reasons for steering clear of it now. But i remember thinking that i mightve ended up at bible college. The thought makes me shudder now. So im glad i dodged the bullet (or nuke.. take your pick)

The whole relationships thing i think lends itself to my inability to count my blessings. In high school i had ZERO female friends. Its funny reallly. Ive changed a fair bit. Even as i type this out, im at uni waiting for class to start and i managed to speak to a girl from the class. Just something vague about what room the class was in. Funny considering an hour ago i was uber depressed because of my exam result (which i knew i would fail). That goes back to the regret thing as well.

Anywho.Venting helps hhaha

[Quercus]

Hi HamSolo01,

That's great that you spoke to your parents. Work and the 'real world' huh. Well if you figure all that out let me know 😊 I'm 32 and still have no idea what I want to do. Just keep plodding along in my job because it's stable and flexible hours. You're right though being financially stable is a relief so work is important. That book I mentioned has a chapter about meaningful work. Clearly I haven't read that chapter yet.

Regret. The word that gives me shivers. I do understand that. I regret letting someone control me so completely when I was at uni. I regret missing the fun and experiences that uni had to offer.

But the hard part is accepting I can't change the past. I am starting to get that now. I need to accept my past is what it is. BUT...I can change my present. And I can change my future. Is that something you could think about? What changes can you make now so that you start enjoying your life now? Even tiny changes.

You've already started. The gym, psychologist, psychiatrist, going to the party, talking to new people, talking to your parents, opening up to friends, joining BB forums...

Just keep trying HamSolo01. That's all I'm doing. Little steps to feel better 😊