Getting to know you...or is that me?

[Just Sara]

After more than 20 years of trying to work out what was wrong with me; and this continues, I found the closer I got to being well, the more isolated I felt. The main point of contention has been seeing myself through the eyes of others. When I began trying to identify myself as independent, all hell broke loose. Conflict on all sides, especially within myself. I sometimes want so much to live my life ignorant of what I've learned. Becoming a self aware individual has it's freedom, but it also has a back-lash. For me that means seeing others for who they really are and learning to walk away from abusive people and situations, even if they're family. Becoming who I thought others wanted me to be, has defined me my whole life. I became a fervent observer of human behaviour and interaction to avoid the 'inevitable', beginning when I was only a toddler. Little people tend to blame themselves for the actions of others. So I trained myself to be who I thought they wanted me to be. This didn't work of coarse, but the damage was done and I became a reflection of other damaged people.

I asked myself a few weeks ago; "Who am I in the core of my own heart, my own truth?" and closed my eyes. I saw myself as a little girl in a baby blue nightie swirling around the yard at dawn on a warm Summer's morning. The memory was vivid and I smiled to myself as I watched. I danced and hummed to myself enjoying the light breeze on my face without a care in the world. Then things changed to another scene where I was a couple of years older. I was again dancing in front of the TV when Sesame Street was on. It was a classic jazz number. I felt my heart grow warm and seemed to glow brighter as I reflected on these memories. It was music and dance that defined me, my joy and happiness. I've always been great at event planning, especially parties. And; music has to be the centre of activities. 

I shed many tears that day as the realisation hit. I had been ignoring myself and pandering to others as a matter of coarse because it felt normal/safe. Now that I'm trying to define and create a new me, the anxiety, panic and depression has morphed. Being an individual seems lonely and difficult. Many changes have come about since my mental health declined, but I suspect it is stepping out into the unknown to find 'me', a courageous little girl dancing her way out of my own heart.

[white knight]

Hi all, hijack here sez

how wonderful for us to freely express live for each other and express our differences.

Sensitivity is a topic I want to pursue soon. Im truly the most sensitive guy Ive ever met.

We are damaged, its hard but made easier with understanding...no, attempting to understand, thats enough.

Tony WK

[Peppermintbach]

Dearest Sez (and a wave to all),

I hope you’re okay...

I just wanted to say, whatever differences we might have, I still love you all the same ❤️

Offering a warm hug if you would accept...

Tony WK: thank you, what a beautiful and gracious post advocating understanding and compassion. Very well said 🙂

Love from my heart of hearts,

Pepper xoxox

[Just Sara]

Hi Pepper;

It's taken me a couple of days to decide how best to respond to you. I've pained over it actually.

Your post on Tony's thread really hurt my feelings. The post above has continued in the same light; comparing your opinions to mine.

I wrote my feelings/thoughts down in relation to 'me', not others. You began your post saying how you really disagreed with me and went on to describe with each detail as to why. I didn't expect that. It hurt.

Everything you've explained is absolutely fine. It's not my place to agree or disagree ok. Your post (there) was about what I wrote; it wasn't about your views in relation to the thread topic as such.

I don't know how else to put it. I was prompted to write there from something I disagreed with a couple of posts above, but I didn't use that post to amplify my feelings. I stayed with using my life as a guide, not theirs.

I understand we're tempted to use phrases from posts to rebuttal or dispute, and it's sometimes helpful to do this. I don't feel you were trying to help me though Pepper. This is where I'm at odds.

Everything I wrote is my way of talking about trauma and how it affected me and the fears I had for my son; now a man.

Anyway, I'll shut up now and take my leave. I'm sorry if you feel hurt. I don't know how else to explain.

Love you H x H's;

Sez xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Sez,

I’m really sorry for hurting you...

It wasn’t my intention but even if I didn’t mean to, the fact is I know that I have hurt you and I’m truly sorry. I hope one day you can forgive me.

I felt my post here was my (poor) attempt to explain why I was upset by your original post. I’m not defending myself now...I’m hopefully explaining...

I understand that I was still being highly defensive (and hurtful) in my earlier post, and I’m sorry. I know that I was too busy trying to talk about my point of view that I didn’t try hard to really understand your feelings (that I know I’ve hurt).

I do want to try to make things better and try to build a bridge. I’m upset with myself for hurting you. I am truly sorry.

I do want to help you but I’m a little unsure how...I do want to listen and be here for you. I’m asking for another chance to be kinder and a better listener and friend.

I feel we have what it takes to get through this...maybe it will take me multiple tries. But for my part, I know that I need to try harder.

Again, I’m truly sorry.

Love you dearly,

Pepper xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Sez,

I re-read your latest post multiple times. I’m trying to understand...not sure if I’m doing a great job but I’m trying...

I think I finally get what you’re saying about how you were expressing your own personal fears and trauma. I completely missed that as my personal views got the better of me. I’m truly sorry...hopefully I’m not making things worse by writing this.

I suppose what I’m saying is in my (flawed and imperfect) way, I’m attempting to understand and listen...I’m trying to step away from my own feelings and walk a mile in yours. My attempt is not perfect but I’m trying...and I’ll continue to try.

A heartfelt apology from me again...

Love always,

Pepper xoxo

[Just Sara]

Dear sweet Pepper;

Please don't read more into this than is necessary. My feelings were hurt because it was written by 'you'. If it had've been from anyone else I would've let it go to the keeper. Do you understand?

I didn't cope with being challenged by you publicly. I see you as a dear friend who's become a special part of my online world. This is probably what hurt more than anything. I've known about your feelings with roles etc for a long time, we've discussed it before. The content wasn't the problem.

It's a credit to both of us we can air our concerns with each other. That's one of the endearing qualities of our friendship; it truly is.

I'm not quite sure why you felt so defensive on that thread, I guess that's for you to ponder. I wish it had've been on here instead, as this place has become a haven of sorts for us.

In fact I don't have an issue if you want to talk about it here; it might be therapeutic if you think about it.

I don't expect perfection from you or myself ok. But being able to talk about our challenges as friends is pretty bloody close to it I reckon. It takes real guts to out our feelings when we're upset about something. We've got that in spades. 🙂

I'm proud of both of us because we're doing it. As I said; if it was anyone else I wouldn't have blinked an eyelid. It's because I love you and value your voice with such admiration. It was very confronting for me.

There's nothing to forgive; please know this and please, don't take this on as a huge thing ok. We're learning how to be friends. We each have idiosyncrasies that'll come out slowly as time passes so we'll address them as they arise. That's what good friends do...

It's also up for consideration that I'm far too sensitive. We haven't touched on that yet either. In time...

Your'e my heart of hearts Pepper girl; don't you ever forget it.

Love always;

Sez xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

Dearest Sez,

Thank you for the beautiful post. It really meant a lot and it helped me to better understand why you felt as deeply hurt as you did.

I’m touched that you value my thoughts/voice as much as you do (I feel the same way too about your voice and opinions). I’m sorry, I didn’t set out to put you on the spot/challenge you...it just “happened” and my words spilled out. I can see how it would have really shaken you...

Thank you for telling me. I really appreciate your openness, and willingness to communicate and help me understand.

True, neither of us are perfect but that’s okay. Perfection is a myth anyway. I think the important part of being friends is not about never having differences, misunderstandings and upsets but, as you said, to communicate, listen and learn.

I trust that you always have my best intentions at heart, and for me, that is more than enough. Even when we don’t always see eye to eye, I still love you all the same...

Actually, I know exactly why I was as upset as I was except to be honest, I’m hesitant to explain any further because I’m worried that things might get lost in “translation” (so to speak). I feel the last thing that I want to do is to accidentally cause you further pain in case you don’t quite interpret what I say next (as I intend) so I might just let it go for now...I hope that’s okay...

But if you really want to know...my gentle suggestion is take a step back from your own emotions (very, very difficult for anyone, I know), and try to read what I wrote not from your own perspective but to try to put yourself in my shoes (and “pretend” to be me). I feel most of the answer is already there if you can do that...

Anyway, just know you’re one of my best friends, come rain, shine...or a storm. You’ll always be my friend 🙂 I have faith we can get through anything.

Love always from my heart of hearts,

Pepper xoxox

[Just Sara]

Hi Pepper;

I'm grateful you appreciate my thoughts on friendship. It's good we can talk about our feelings.

You've asked for my retrospective about your post on 'men isolated' to understand you better. You wrote;

'But I feel while you have the right to choose how you lead your own life. I don’t feel you can expect everyone else to share the same ideals about gender roles as you'

I understood clearly what you want for yourself, and how you felt for people who'd be confronted if faced with identifying as 'male' (considering my dream for traditional roles) And, you expressed how choice is far better than being told how to be.

It's your paragraph above I struggle with. You aimed your words 'at me'. I can't read anything in my post that pushes my expectations onto others.

It was about 1..my son having contact with my Pop; a male bonding experience 2..my dream of a childhood ideal written as a fictitious rhetoric 3..how upset I'd become after reading posts 4..how tired I was of doing it all and 5..how men and women used to know their roles and past them down. (Which was again, about bonding with parents)

These were presented as 'I' statements. Can you help me by pasting the words you found offensive?

For me Pepper, I felt quite shocked by one of Nat's opinions about raring her son. It's not my place though to challenge her on it. It's between her and her husband to decide what's best.

Your response seemed to be defending men/boys. Am I right?

Anyway, I'll leave you with it. I think we both need to nut this out. You've obviously got something on your mind, but are asking me to guess. I can't; I've tried.

Let me know how I've done ok.

H x H's;

Love you;

Sez xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Sez,

Thank you, I’m moved that you went out of your way to try to understand things from my perspective. I wasn’t quite expecting that...

Yes, I felt most your original post was clearly you talking about your own thoughts and feelings, which you’re entitled to and there was nothing upsetting about those parts. It was a couple of your later paragraphs where I felt the water became a little murkier because the way it was worded didn’t make it sound like you were just talking about you, your son and family anymore.

I don’t want to argue and I really don’t want to upset you further but maybe just consider what I say next as food for thought as how some of your writing may have sounded to a reader (like me). I’m not trying to nitpick but I’m just trying to explain as I really am not setting out or wanting to upset you...I hope you understand that.

You said:

I've been standing by while our men are losing their identities and maleness. I hate it! I want old school back!

I felt “our men” made me interpret that whole paragraph as you speaking broadly about men in general. “Our men” felt very unspecific to me as in who exactly is “our men?” The men in your life? The men in my life? The men in your next door neighbour’s life?

I think if you had said “my son” or “my family” or “my men”, I would have interpreted it very differently and more in line with your intentions.

For that reason, I interpreted your original post as you making a “judgement call” (so to speak) about what constitutes “maleness” or “male identity” at a societal level, which I found upsetting because (at that point) I felt you were no longer talking about your own life and trying to push your own expectations onto society.

Even when you added the “I” parts in that same paragraph, to me, it just sounded like you were saying that you didn’t like how men are acting these days because it isn’t in accordance with your views of “maleness” and male identity.” That was my interpretation when I read that post initially.

Of course, I now understand that’s not what you meant because you helped me understand by explaining. But I’m talking about my original interpretation of your original post.

I’m not trying to hurt you. I’m trying to explain. I feel perhaps a lot got lost in translation between your writing intentions and my interpretation/understanding.

There’s a little more that I want to say...

Love always from my H x H,

Pepper xoxo

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Sez,

Sorry, I tried to condense and fit it all into the one post but I really struggled to do that so I’ll continue here...I try my hardest not to do that but hopefully I’m allowed to do it in the rare occasion.

You also said:

Expectations of men/women are so outrageous now, it's no wonder people are filling our pages with confusion and disillusion. And, most are single and living alone. Doing it all!

I noticed you said “men/women” and when you say something like that, it sounds like you’re making a broad statement because these non-descript “men/women” could be anyone. So I interpreted it (once again) as a general comment on society (rather than you expressing your personal feelings about your own life) being filled with “confusion and disillusion.”

Again, I want to make it clear, I’m not trying to hurt you or nitpick. I’m trying to explain why your original post made me feel as I did.

As I said, I now understand that’s not what you meant because you patiently and kindly explained but I’m referring to my original interpretation to explain what set me “off” (so to speak).

Thank you for taking the time to try to help me understand. I really hope I haven’t upset you (even more) by explaining further...

Yes, your interpretation was pretty on the mark. I was basically writing not so much to defend boys and men but to support their right to make their own decisions in life. I was trying to say i feel it’s okay for boys and men to choose their own definition of “masculinity” and “maleness”, and not be limited by anyone else’s perception of what it means to be “male.”

I hope what I’m saying makes sense. I really don’t want to cause you further pain. It was why I was hesitant to try to explain any further initially but you were kind enough to encourage open communication so I really hope you don’t take this the wrong way.

Thank you gratefully for you love and insight. It’s a real gift that you still tried to understand despite our differences.

If you want to clarify, explain, etc...you’re welcome to of course..

Love you dearly from my heart of hearts,

Pepper xoxox