Blue's terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day (life viewed through the lens of depression)

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Some of you are aware of my existence by now, but for those who aren't, I'm fairly new to this forum. I've been stumbling my way along with depression for somewhere around seven years. It was triggered by a life event and exacerbated by circumstances since then, which I've done my best to eliminate where possible. About a year ago I changed track with that and made the huge decision to end the relationship I was in. Rough though that was, I finally started to see a bit of progress. I've still had a fight on my hands, to stay afloat and get control of my time and money and my peace of mind, all of which were tied up for a long time in untangling my finances from those of my ex (not his fault, the bank made it really damn hard, and my job and my own state of mind weren't helping).

Now I've started enjoying things again, and am not always instantly down when I'm on my own. I was once a (deliberately) solitary creature who enjoyed my own company and learning everything I could, so it's good to be more like that again. The depression's always there, lurking in the background, but I sometimes go a few weeks at a time without any prolonged episodes. Long enough to start feeling like I'm healing or that my emotions have some concept of cause and effect again. Then down I slam again, sometimes for a day or two, other times for weeks, and it feels like I've made no progress at all. In these periods my mind and my emotions are constantly at war, particularly when I'm alone and/or it's quiet. My mind is calm for the most part, and well aware I'm strong and capable and have strategies and I actively work on those in spite of the depression. My emotions, on the other hand, are running about with flags chock full of negative messages and even though I know it's not (or even close) I feel like everything is collapsing, that I can't deal with it and I just want everything to stop. That's where I'm at, today.

I do have an amazing partner now, who is extremely supportive, and has helped me immensely. My current problem is that I need my friends and family, too. I so rarely have time that isn't ruined by unsociable work hours and also the energy and will to socialise, but my friends are seldom available when I do. In those times I know it may be weeks or months before I can see them again, and I miss them, and that's mostly when I crash again these days. Dunno how to fix that yet, but I need to vent, and here I am. Getting better but having a really crap day.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

Yup, it's pretty big. Honestly, I didn't really think that much on the possibility of having ASD as the things my sister related about her experience and research didn't really fit me. It was a friend that got me looking more closely at it, she said her psychologist has ASD, but that she wouldn't have guessed because she did seem so socially aware and able to empathise. Most of what I'd heard to that point about ASD - including from my sister - related to pretty overt social difficulties. The stuff she didn't bring up was the stuff I relate to, also the things I find most embarassing or even humiliating, the things one isn't inclined to bring up voluntarily and that one learns to keep to oneself real early in life to not paint a target on one's head. AKA masking. Honestly, it's only now as I'm researching this stuff that I have even said anything much about these things to LM. Of course he's noticed some oddities, but for the most part I've kinda kept a lid on that stuff even with him.

As you say, it wouldn't be a stretch, since my sister and all her boys have it. It's funny, talking more to her about my experience, she's said more than once, "I don't do that, but my boys do". It's such a nebulous condition, that manifests in a bunch of different ways. Any wonder people don't get diagnosed, especially women, who are immediately conditioned to not stand out or "bother" people.

Fingers crossed I can get some help, yeah. I am very conscious of what a mess it could be for me going forward either post transplant if all goes well or if the worst should happen with LM, to suddenly be minus the Carer's Payment and possibly minus his pension, then thrust back into more work than I can handle... I seek to future proof, get help for my actual capacity so I don't combust under the pressure. Slowly putting things in place between my more immediate responsibilities.

Snap! You are the main reason I come onto the forums, too. I know how much strain you are always under, and how little IRL care and support you get - often forces working in the exact opposite direction. I feel like you need a safe and consistent person to talk to.

Love,

Blue.

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Had another of those meltdowns I previously described, last night. Considering that was the worst one I've had so far and last night's was almost as bad within a week of it, I'm taking the "hint" that I need to drop everything and look after myself intensely right now. That includes a short break from posting much on the forums. 

I know, EM, this looks in heavy contrast to what I said in my last post here. I'm not unmindful of you and I have one eye on here - I'm around should you need me, but my posts will be short, support that I can manage. I normally spend so long on my posts, easily an hour, trying to acknowledge everything, to communicate as accurately as possible, and to preferably not blunder any unspoken social rules and hurt anyone. I'm just so dysregulated right now that process is taking 2-3 times as long, and I don't seem to be succeeding. I perceive I have been doing more harm than good for a while. This is no good for anyone, me included.

In short, I need to put my phone away when I'm home, minimise social media (in which I include forums) to checking once or twice a day max, and very importantly get a break from all the reminders screaming at me constantly. I feel like I'm in a vice with sounds and lights and distractions pressing in on me from all sides constantly. The sheer number of things to keep track of for LM is staggering - something like 20 medications, all on different scripts we can't always get from the same place, that run out at different times. Constant appointments and tests that don't necessarily have appointments (walk-ins) that take constant remembering, reminding and pushing for me to get LM to just do. Medical/health obligations that are the same as managing non-appointment tests. My energy, motivation and executive function - especially always on inadequate sleep - are all poor at best and I'm having to supply all of the above for two of us. I am unbelievably worn down.

Meantime I am trying to manage my own health and well-being, and I have nothing left to do it with. We have overcome periods like this before, but they take huge work and focus from both of us.

[ecomama]

Dear Blue, sorry you're having meltdowns in such frequency, there's too much to deal with, obviously. 

Take all the time YOU need off the forums. Please don't feel obligated to come on here for me. It should meet a need for you too.... so many times I can't come on, it's too much at that time. 

We need a measure on our own compassion fatigue too. Boundaries. 

I watched an Oprah clip last night on YouTube and one message I've already used with the kids being very anxious about their futures was.... just take the next best step. You and I have a lot going on constantly and far too many demands, being only ONE person, taking the next best step is all we can do. 
Knowing when to rest and just being able to is another ball game altogether. 

Re: ASD (really ASC now as the psych world is leaning to it more being a "condition" rather than seen as a disorder)... indeed it manifests SO differently but the checklist is still only for the male population, even now. 
I believe they've taken empathy OFF that list entirely now. This has been a relatively recent change. 
So yeah, the more we find out, the more we know there is yet to be discovered. 

Bestest wishes as always
EMxxxx

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

It's slow, but I'm bouncing back a bit. Taking great care to observe and work with my limits. I'm hearing you about coming onto the forums. If I don't appear some days, know I'm just having a rest and I'll be back (I'm nothing if not a consistent creature). Coming on here does meet a need for me - connection, validation, that sort of stuff. It helps when I'm in a bad place. Don't worry, I'll rest and reduce activities as needed.

Funny about compassion fatigue, it's a thing with LM, but for me it isn't with anyone else. It's not that I don't care, but I don't take on the feelings of others for the most part. Animals, yes - 100%. Humans, not really. Except with LM, whom you would agree is in a unique position with me, I am able to maintain a comfortable detachment from other people's emotions. I think it makes me a good, fairly objective voice for those who seek my counsel. Where fatigue comes from is how much time and energy I put into trying not to upset anyone with my detachment. Relevant, perhaps, to the possible ASD.

From my readings it appears to still officially be ASD for now, referred to by a few bloggers and such at this point as ASC as far as I can tell. I don't think "disorder" and "condition" are exactly worlds apart as far as negative connotations go. Yeah, diagnostic criteria appear to be heavily geared toward male presentation still. Ridiculous, really. Anyway, as I learn, I am seeing a lot of under-the-surface stuff that fits me. I'm not obviously socially awkward as a general rule - it's more about the cost of social experiences, the exhaustion and the overload they often cause me, the mental work that goes into any and every encounter with someone I don't know well, the heavy duty preparation before and rumination on every little detail after. The conversations and arguments with myself. The mental and sensory overload that follows a lot of errands like shopping or banking or whatever that makes me want to be separate from my body and all the swirling thoughts and sensations. It's the weird stuff that no-one sees. I have a journey ahead of me, EM.

Kind thoughts,

Blue.

[ecomama]

Indeed a discovery of yourself is a life long study lol. Funny you mentioned that really, I just began reading a book I bought yesterday, at the waterfront with a nice Chai, it's spiritual in context so I won't bore you lol! 
It just talks about the journey we're all on to seek truth has always been in plain sight... it'll be good for me to read, more or less matching what I already intuit.. 

Yes ASD, I prefer to call ASC, I find it less offensive as a human to think of condition rather than disordered uckkk lol. I attended a Conference with a BRILLIANT English professor who is Autistic. She'd done ground breaking research and was travelling the world teaching her discoveries. She could do SO MUCH brilliant work but couldn't cross the street without a carer or even know which towel to use to dry herself after showering... 
fascinating. It's all about building "capacity" which is probably the path for everyone who is "neuro-diverse" and others too. 

P.Son experiences social overload, perhaps Yvette to some degree. None of the rest of us seem to have this as an issue. Quite the opposite in fact, being around others all the time is our normal. 

I remember you saying you'd hide in a corner with all the parties here lol... darling Blue... P.Son and Yvette introduce 'solitary activities' even at these parties where they can simultaneously appear to be engaged but have self regulation at the core. Yvette gets her electric guitar and amp out and plays for people but really herself. 

I'm relieved you don't experience compassion fatigue too!! That WOULD be too much. Caring for LM in the compassionate way you do is plenty. 

I won't be on the forums nearly as much when I return to work. Same ole! 

Love EMxxxx

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

Definitely a life-long study - you can learn it all, but it keeps changing so there's more learning to do. Funny that you think spirituality would bore me. I'm not huge on religion (albeit not unwilling to discuss it), but that isn't the same as being divorced from spirituality. That is the realm of philosophy, and an area of interest for me.

Funny how a word can look so different from one person to another. To me, "condition" has an air of "it's acute, it's ugly, fix it now!", whereas "disorder" - whilst also not a pleasant term - comes to me with more of a feel of "oh no, it makes neurotypicals uncomfortable" (something I take some satisfaction in). There is the option of leaving off a third word altogether.

I'd do one party okay. Any more in the same week (or possibly month) and I'll wander off somewhere else! I love that Yvette & P.Son have worked out ways to self regulate when being social is a bit much.

It is interesting how I process human interaction, EM. It's not like I don't care about my friends, but as a general rule I approach emotional topics/situations people talk to me about from an intellectual standpoint. I won't be feeling what you're feeling - I'll be feeling curiosity, I will be analysing and collating data, putting together a mental profile of how people feel about things and why. I've always been like that, it took me a long time to learn how to tone down that aspect in how I respond to people and meet them at least vaguely where they're at when they are emotional.

EM, have you heard of Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA)? I came across it in my readings, a sub-type of autism that can be mistaken for ODD - which you mentioned Yvette has. If she is seeking an autism diagnosis now, it may cast a new light on some of the "defiant" behaviours. It also might not, but I found the connection interesting. Moreover, I found the description of the degree of avoidance and more interestingly the predilection for role-playing or fixating on people or fictional characters to an obsessive extent (i.e. to almost losing touch with reality) was like reading a summary of my own early history. A very intriguing development. That journey of self-discovery continues.

Kind thoughts,

Blue.

[ecomama]

Hey Blue, welcome back to your thread lol. 

I've only heard about PDA, know nothing about it really. 
Yeah the ODD diagnosis was not in light of any of Yvette's behaviours, as she's not defiant at all with me... she was diagnosed because of what she went through, the SAs over her lifetime and how the abuser put me in opposition to her. 
This developed in her thinking leading to the ODD diagnosis. 
I didn't take her to a Psych for her behaviours. She was referred to a SA Psych by Detectives in JIRT, had lots of sessions (mainly to gather evidence) and the Psych diagnosed her with this. 
Yvette has had to re-think her own thoughts. Remind herself that I'm not against her, she doesn't need to position herself opposite to me and the reasons this thinking is inside her. 

It's interesting you found PDA and can relate so much to it. It's also amazing there was so much spot on with the escapism with fixations in an obsessive way with all the characters (real or fictional). 
It's GREAT you found this! Well done you lol. 

Re: partying lol. Those are the ONLY 2 people in our entire family who couldn't stand partying every single night. I did for YEARS when I was younger. If it wasn't a party it was many hours of dancing lessons, party, hours of Sports, party, Study ugh, PARTY! Hahaha. It's how the rest of the family is. High level interactions almost constantly. Not these 2. They'll creep off into their room AT a party here lol. The party often goes into their room to join them. Poor things. 

Oh I see why you think condition is worse. Ok. It was relayed to us as "born with" the parts of the brain wiring not sparking to other parts. Just born that way. VERY interesting. Disorder always reminds me of much worse stuff. I'm not right in my thinking, IDK. Just got a thing about "disorder" I guess lol. 

Funny also how you interact. Take data in your mind. I spend time holding space. Some times ask questions to gain more clarity. Not needed quite often. Dot the lot with forms of validation murmurs, like yep, aha, I see why you thought that, etc. It's not unless they ASK for my opinion, do I give it. Or ask for time to think about it. 

Love EMxxxx

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

Hm, yes I was away from my thread a while. Too tired to attend to it, really.

Okay, that makes sense about Yvette. I just thought I'd mention it because of the factors I mentioned. In context, it probably isn't relevant to her.

For me, PDA fits because there are behaviours that fit in my childhood. I'd get angry and not do what my parents asked of me pretty regularly, and not out of conscious spite or that it was even hard stuff they were asking of me. I'd at times go to outlandish lengths to refuse, to my own obvious detriment, and not really know why. It followed more socially acceptably into adulthood and I see it now. The more demands or the more uncomfortable, the harder it is for me to make myself meet them. Cooking is huge - I love cooking. But put a "have to" on it, and I just can't make myself do it. I (perhaps famously by now) lived mostly on canned spag and Maccas through my whole 20s. I might cook sometimes, but not if I felt I "had to". The primary difference from ODD being that with PDA it isn't really a choice, especially once a tolerance threshold is reached. Those are just a few examples, but overall, I'm seeing a lot that fits me. Stress over periods of transition (like being home vs going out), changes in plans, a bunch of other things - apparently it's all about needing some control over our environment. Again, it fits. It was the distinction about the role-playing and obsessiveness over people/characters that really stood out to me. LM and the birds are my obsessions now, of course. But put me in recreation time, what am I doing? Role-playing games and D&D (aka live-action role-playing). Funny about that.

Oh boy, that's too much party, EM. One, sure. Then I'll go hibernate for a month! That's one area in which you and I are polar opposites.

It's pure personal preference, re "condition" vs "disorder", the ways in which we've been exposed to the words in various contexts. No-one's right or wrong.

I suspect holding space for you looks different than it does for me. When I say I'm holding space it means I've learnt people sometimes want some quiet validation and not a solution or the Spanish Inquisition and I should button it! Took me a while to get that concept, I still stuff it up sometimes.

Kind thoughts,

Blue.

[ecomama]

Lol a Spanish Inquisition lol! That's hilarious. I doubt you come across that way at all. 
Unless people feel "cornered" by questions eg in an argument, I'm pretty sure they'd just like the opportunity to talk about themselves / what's on their mind. That's what I've heard / learnt anyway lol. 

I'm curious about the distinctions between PDA and Autism now. You mentioned it can look similar but PDA is like under the umbrella of ASD? 
It's also interesting that you said a person is born with it. 
From what I understand (or what research is willing to uncover atm because I think it could change over time IDK!) is that a person is born with Autism too. There are other opposing views though. 

The strange thing about discussing all this with you atm (probably not so surprising lol - SNAP?) is that I was really getting into, almost obsessively lol, the research and works of Gabor Mate lately. 
It should come with a ***TW*** for those of us who've experienced childhood neglect and abuse though. 
His teaching is often illustrated by him telling of his own childhood experiences which weren't outright abuse from his mother (absent father due to War I believe) but because she was doing what she was TOLD to do ie controlled crying, timed feeding etc. We know now that these strict "rules" for babies & toddlers create a chasm in attachment as opposed to attachment parenting styles talked about more often (just natural parenting practiced since the beginning of time in my mind). 

IDK if he talks about PDA? 
He DOES talk about ADHD, I believe he was diagnosed late in life also, but relative to you and I, he speaks of this developing BECAUSE of childhood experiences with our parents' parenting (or non parenting whatever the case may be). 

I think most people want control over their environs? 
Perhaps our differing REACTIONS to not having control could be measured? IDK. 
It's probably all on a spectrum like most things. 

Interesting stuff! 
Love EMxxxx

[Clues_Of_Blue]

Hey EM,

I jest about the Spanish Inquisition. But I can tell you that as much as people like to talk about themselves, they tend to realise after a while when they're the object of detached curiosity over genuine interest in their emotions. It doesn't go down well. Plus I quickly lose interest if the person isn't a quite close friend or their problem isn't complex and merits further learning. I'm definitely not well made for feigning sympathy/empathy as is customary in our society, especially in person when I'm on the spot. Can be a bit gentler about it with text, having a moment to think over my response. You see the better side of me because I'm invested in our friendship.

My understanding is PDS is a sub-type of autism, therefore under the banner of ASD. That said, PDA is not an official diagnosis in Australia at all, I've mostly found UK sources on it. As for autism in general, I've seen more arguments for rather than against it being something one is born with. There is no definitive research that I know of suggesting ADHD or ASD are acquired later in life. They can certainly be exacerbated by life circumstances. But the debate goes on. A lot of it is anecdotal, there needs to be a lot more scientific research done. The problem with current research is that a lot of adults in the here and now that had diagnoses in childhood would have had pretty obvious presentation at the time, and been in a very specific demographic. People like me have unreliable/subjective data for observation of any presentation in childhood or infancy. They'd have to go in with the knowledge they have now, observing a whole new generation to get valid information.

Sure most people want some control over their environments. It's about the degree of control, the kinds of things, the level of stress involved and eventually the outward reactions. There's a lot to unpack, and also as you say, a spectrum - it varies from person to person.

A lot still to learn. Kind thoughts,

Blue.