Animal cruelty, climate change, monoculture...the list goes on.

[ChrissyStar]

I feel hopeless and have decided not to have children because of the state of the world (why would I wish to bring a child into this when I myself, do not like to live here?). Does anyone else feel the same?

[Just Sara]

Hi UB; (Waves to all!)

It was me who hijacked this thread, so it's on my shoulders, not yours.

Your gracious response is just what the Dr ordered, so I'll reply on your thread to continue what I feel's an important growth opportunity for me, and hopefully you as well.

Apologies to Chrissystar, Birdy and Pepper too. This is an important topic of discussion; mental health issues or not. It's a pearler!

Kind thoughts;

Sez x

[Peppermintbach]

Hi ChrissyStar and all,

birdy: thanks for clarifying 🙂 I’m happy that it was a fun coincidence. Thanks again for the quote and poem. Really appreciated it ❤️

UB and Sez: don’t worry about it. There’s no need to apologise as far as I’m concerned. I’m not fussed plus I get why you wanted to talk to each other here. All good, no stress. It’s completely okay 😉

Sez: Maya Angelou was someone pretty special. She was a powerful woman. She used her voice and (rightfully) demanded to be heard in a time when people of her culture didn’t have much of a voice. I suppose that’s one of the reasons why she is still celebrated today 🙂

But going back to the environment...

Yes, worker exploitation and environmental damage from certain players in the fashion industry has been an ongoing issue. I suppose the plus side is none of us are (theoretically at least) passive consumers. I feel we can opt in or opt out of what we choose to (or choose not to) consume in the fashion world.

Personally, I don’t mind if production occurs domestically or overseas as long as the workers are paid a liveable wage and work in safe and clean conditions, and if the company is committed to minimising its environmental impact.

Melbourne sounds like it was a very exciting place when you were young. It still is though...personally I feel Melbourne is probably one of the most sophisticated and creative capitals in Australia today 🙂

Your venture into making clothes was brave but I suppose fabric is expensive and having to factor costs, time, etc, it must have been challenging.

Hi all:

Speaking of the fashion industry, here are some more environmentally friendly and worker friendly alternatives:

• Look out for new sustainable/ethical clothing labels- they are run by owners who are committed to paying their workers a livable wage, safe working conditions, etc.
• ”quality over quantity” mentality: buy high quality clothes from local or international designers or quality secondhand pieces. The kind that will last many years...
• secondhand: op shops, vintage, etc is your friend here 🙂
• clothing swaps: exactly as the name suggests where people meet to exchange their old unwanted clothes.
• Question cheap brand new clothes: if it’s new and very cheap, chances are that corners are being cut somewhere and it’s the environment and low skilled workers who are paying their price.

Pepper xoxo

[Unbeliever]

I am finding the whole "supermarket shopping bag" public complaining around Australia extremely mindnumbing and disappointing.

My mother and me starting taking string bags (back then) with us everytime we went shopping when I was 8 years old (32 years ago) which was about 20 years before it became "popular" and long before the "plastic bag ban" was initiated in South Australia in 2009.

Been using bread bags for bin liners for just as long.

I don't drink coffee, but I bought one of those small 600ml "soft drink bottle" style thermas metal bottles over 10 years ago and carry it with me daily (plus it keeps drinks hotter and cooler for much longer and can't possibly spill).

I bought a metal stainless steel straw about 2 years back which is small and easy to bring with me everywhere.

We rarely put out our rubbish bin weekly anymore. Haven't needed to for many years. Between composting all our organics, green bin (with you can put in things like pizza boxes etc) and recycling it usually takes us (a household of 3 adults) about 3-4 weeks to successfully fill up our rubbish bin to even close to the top.

Got solar panels about 9 years ago, whic were not super cheap but paid for themselves within about 3-4 years (didn't have to pay for a single bill over that time... all covered by solar credits). This is in the State, in the country which has the highest electricity prices in the world). Unfortunately recently, while charging us the max cost for what we use they have reduced ridiculously the "value" of solar credits for what we generate (which really sucks).

Regardless, a Tesla house battery is next on the list when they become a little more mainstream... and therefore affordable.

I've written up new "sustainable" policies, shown them to my employers and help impliment and transition them at everywhere I've ever worked.

Haven't bought KFC, Nestle, Coca Cola or any palm oil products for about 20 years. Only ever bought "free-range" animal products as far back as I can remember (plus I look up to double check what exactly is their policy).

... the list goes on and on.

I don't understand why the public finds these things complicated... or why they need to wait for Governments to impose bans (and then complain) or wait for businesses and corporations to impose new rules (and then complain).

We constantly blame "corrupt" governments and "evil" corporations... while taking absolutely take no responsibility ourselves.

It makes me SO angry and disappointed.

[Ggrand]

Hello Peppy, Birdy, UB, Sez and all.

I just wanted to pop in here, to vent, rage or whatever you call it..but I call it dissapointment.. Let me explain..
On my way to work the last few times, not this week, but the weeks before...I pass huge farms cattle, sheep, I see horses, llamas, cows, sheep etc.
There's one farm that breaks my heart evertime I'm passing it......There are about 100+ sheep put into two paddocks and I'm presuming daily the farmer is buying in food and feeding them..The sheep are thin but the farmer is paying out possibly thousands a month to keep them alive... This buying food for cows, horses, sheep ect you see it all over the place here.

There are a few bigger small towns around my village, and the bigger one which has coles, Woolworths, soldiers club, etc..population is a few over 4,000 residence...The council has given one town $58,000.00 to put in some bush walking trails, and to beautify a corner with flowers rocks etc...Our town got $4,000.00 for well I don't know...The bigger town got heaps of $'s, the bowling club got 60,000.00 for renovations, anyhow my dissapointment comes because the councils giving these grants, should have given the grants to the farmers,...I don't see the sense in beautifying the town with flowers through a drought when our farmers are doing it hard...some are not eating, feeding their stock animals instead of themselves...

It's sad out here, on the farms there not a blade of eatable grass for the animals, it's dirt, that red dirt that you hear about, my yard is dirt, accross the road is dirt...I have heard that farmers are putting there animal out of the pain their cows, sheep, this is there livelihood . because the animals they are suffering a slow death of starvation/ dehydration with no water or food.. ....All that grant money could it have possibly fed some farmers or their animals...

I keep thinking, walking paths, bridges, corner beautification, can all wait until another day...Our farmers desperately need help first, before superficial cosmetic things being done to tiny villages in the middle of nowhere.. I was about to post this when I just heard that a major town has been given a $60,000. grant to build a small bridge over a dried up river, better do it now while the river is dry from the flood, that way it will be easier to build with no water around.....heard these words being said on our local news...
Not sure if I'm off topic, but I just wanted to voice my disappointment..


Grandy...

[Unbeliever]

Many years ago when I was still in early teenagehood. I was researching for the major "end of year" project (worth like 35% of my grade or something).

While studying I came across an article about Greenpeace.

Now, as an animal lover I had been an avid supporter of Greenpeace my entire life. I had given the pittence of cash I had access to numerous times when I was in primary school and got family members to donate to the cause... even helped at drives to raise money for Greenpeace a few times.

But this article made my blood run cold...

You see, when I was very young (4-5 years old) certain species of elephant were in big trouble in Africa... mainly due to things like the ivory trade. Now organisations like Greenpeace had stepped in, helped protect them, contributed to breeding programs, hired gunhands to guard them, brought into law preventions of local tribes to stop hunting them for meat and gave them alternative food sources etc etc

All great stuff. Which by that point had brought them back from the brink.

But what I didn't know was that their numbers had increased so much because of the immense public donations contributed since those early days... that they were facing a new threat, too much population to sustain.

You see, when elephants did their immense migrations across the continent they needed to eat massive amounts of food along the way. The ones in the front got ample food (stripping trees etc) the ones at the back got whatever was left behind... which in the past had always been enough.

But because their populations had grown so much. To survive the elephants at the back had been stripping the leftovers of the trees so much they they killed the plants... so the next year's migration they would not be there to eat.

The result? Each year more elephants were starving, mothers could not provide enough milk for infants... the species was again on the brink of collapse.

And yet for Greenpeace elephants were their main "cash cow" for donations (and dolphins, pandas etc). So they wouldn't change their position to lighten up the laws to compensate... which had led to this horrifying situation.

I never donated to Greenpeace again.

This farming situation is terrible no doubt. But I have looked up what many of these farms Australia is helping are contributing to... live animal export, non-free range animals, and worse.

Not all of them of course. But this universal handout method? I just can't do that.

Better a few animals suffer now, than millions later.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Grandy and UB (waves to all),

I can see where you’re both coming from and I feel you both have valid points...I suppose it comes down to whose perspective we want to look at things from: the farmers’ or the animals themselves. I feel for the farmers’ situation but I also feel for the animals so I’m conflicted...

I wonder if perhaps there is a middle ground. A very expensive middle ground for governments, mind you...but something that could both reduce animal welfare issues (such as, live animal exports) as well as help struggling farmers is probably best in my opinion.

I’m not saying this is the “solution” but maybe give farmers more initial relief aid/financial assistance for immediate problems. Help them stay afloat for now...

But make further/subsequent financial assistance conditional on farmers changing the way that they operate their farms. By “differently”, I mean incorporating guidelines for improved minimum living standards for the animals on their farm, and perhaps even introducing more crop based farming (and reducing livestock over time), which the additional aid would help cover...

Just sharing my stray thoughts...

Kind thoughts to all,

Pepper xoxo

[Unbeliever]

Pepper,

Once again I fell victim to the "limit" and had to cut out some of the detail required for my previous post to be properly representative of my thoughts.

What I meant was... After what I learned with that particular circumstance I wrote about above, I could no longer give money to charities in a general sense (meaning give to an organisation to do with as they wish).

However, giving money that will only be used to achieve a SPECIFIC cause... that is something I can definitely support.

If you gave me the option to give money to help out some fantastic and ethical free-range, never sells animals to the live export trade, cool farms trying to do the right thing that are currently struggling... I'm all for it. Please take my money.

But donating money to a "general cause" where I have no idea where my $$$'s are going and who or what they are going to be used for? Sorry, but I can never do that again. I carry enough guilt on my shoulders as it is thanks.

There are farms (not all, but more than a few) that exist out there that have been happy to get themselves into massive debt in order to expand their operations of unethical farming practises (although quite legal by Australian Governmental Law).

As harsh as this will sound... those types of farms, regardless of whether it has been in their families for generations or not, by pursuing this type of farming, in my opinion don't deserve to survive into the future (especially since climate change is just going to make this situation worse and worse for a very long time).

But those farms that are trying to do the right things... as I said before, please give me the option to help them, and ONLY them. Because without that option... I simply can't.

Truth is... I STILL feel guilty for helping Greenpeace almost 30 years ago because of those starving elephants. It is something that I just can't shake loose from the back of my subconscious (and believe me I've tried).

[Birdy77]

Hello all 😊

I am not sure I should post my feelings around these issues .... i have been reading, and biting my tongue ...

And yet here I am ...

I understand your concerns and viewpoint Grandy, and as always, your compassionate heart is concerned for others (the farmers). I agree that at a time like this, your local council's funding priorities seem rather warped.

But I do agree with Unbeliever, that a blanket funding handout to farmers is fraught with problems.
I think Pepper has outlined a really sensible compromise. I like the idea of funding conditional on regulated improvements to animal welfare in agriculture. Animals Australia and the RSPCA have recently together been involved with something similar surrounding assistance for the sheep farmers who argued that their livelihoods would be compromised if live export was to be banned.

I have very particular feelings around these issues. My views are not popular and I do not want to upset anybody.

But from my perspective, the life of a little hen used for her reproductive system (and the baby male chicks chucked in the grinder because they don't lay eggs), or an intelligent, gentle mumma pig kept in a crate to produce bubbas to provide humans a strip of bacon, the life of a frisky, happy lamb that has no idea he will become someone's Sunday roast, the dear cow impregnated and forced to carry her calf to term only to have him taken away and used for veal so humans can have her milk ... all these lives, (these lives that have been forced into existence) in my eyes, are just as important as those endangered elephants, those Pandas, those dogs in China, the dolphins trapped at Seaworld forced to perform entertainment ...

In my eyes, to deliberately bring life into existence for the sole and express purpose to take it again, to me, is warped.

However, this is the society in which we live. We live in a society that views these animals as commodities, not thinking, feeling beings who experience fear. These "commodities" are people's livelihoods. I understand that. (I just wish it wasn't true).

Pepper mentioned looking at the problem from the point of view of the animals. I think if more people did this, the word would be a much gentler place.

I hope I haven't upset anyone, it's an issue that causes me great distress on a daily basis. My heart is hurting as write this, please know that my words come from a place of compassion.

Peace, love and light to you all, from me ❤

🌻birdy

[Unbeliever]

We live in a very strange age...

I've met outspoken vegans that have proudly shown off their leather purses or shoes because they were some world famous "brand".

Women showing off the size of their diamond wedding ring... who are completely and vocally opposed to the slave labor trade.

Animal advocates that have absolutely no idea about the PMU menapause treatment industry and what they are contributing to...

We have coastal coral being deformed and damaged by the sheer amount of sunscreen being washed of the skin by beachgoers.

Travel destinations like the Galapagos Islands and many others being severely damaged and the species threatened simply by the uncontrollable tourist numbers visiting (since travel has become much more affordable to the middle-lower classes worldwide).

People replacing their phones and electronics to the "latest model" without having any idea about the coltan mining impacts.

Australia being in pretty much the best position in the world to create a sustainable energy generation and storage society for the last 30 years (wealthy country, completely surrounded by water and strong currents, strong sun beating down on large uninhabitable areas, large flat areas with regular all year round wind etc etc) and yet we are falling behind numerous small 3rd world countries... and with a current government in power happily talking as if "sustainablity" somehow equals "evil".

People not realising that "interest" on debts (loans/credit cards/mortages etc) is contributing to the creation of "dead money" that is not represented by anything physical in the real world... and adding to a massive decrease of the quality of life for people here and everywhere else worldwide.

That petrol has been a continual "hemmorage of money" from the Australian economy for the last 50 years. Every barrel we have ever bought... all those dollars are gone from our economy, never to come back. People talk about "buying local" but are happy to send out multi-billions out of the country so the don't have to walk 5 minutes to the local shop.

And I don't know how "Palm Oil" has been included into almost every single product on the supermarket shelf... but it isn't/wasn't because of me over the last 20 years. The sheer amount of people who must have made palm oil so profitable to get to the point of such semi-complete saturation into almost all of our products... makes me sick.

Again... I could go on and on and on.

[Peppermintbach]

Hi lovely, caring people...

UB and birdy: It’s great to hear from both of you 🙂 I love how thoughtful, caring and compassionate you both are...

Thank you so much for elaborating, UB. It’s always good to hear your take on things. I feel you made some very reasonable points in your earlier post...great points!

Also, I really admire your gutsy and candid post, birdy. I know your words come from a place of deep caring and pain. I realise that could not have been easy for you to share but you bravely hit “post”... there would have been a lot of fear and hesitation before you decided to post.

Thank you birdy (thanks to you too, UB).

If we really want to get down to it, I feel both of you have highly valid points and that, fundamentally, I agree...

That said, I also feel for the plight of the farmers, and don’t exactly like the idea of them struggling as much as they are...

So as I said before, I do feel conflicted...I suppose, in short, I stand by my earlier comments about making compromises 🙂 A middle ground that both helps farmers as well as improves the living standards of animals/minimises the environmental impact is what I’m hoping for.

Kindness and warmth,

Pepper