Why people feel so much shame about their own mental health?

[Ramblify]

Hi,

I'd describe myself as currently, in remission, but have have major depressive disorder and GAD my whole life. I adressed my mental health and personal growth in the 90's. At the time I was in my late teens. I found the support I needed from different doctors, organisations and services in the community. I've had many ups and downs. I'm currently employed with supporting others in the community and some in their homes. I have noticed the level of shame some of these individuals apear to have is a huge barrier. I was wondering what mental health was like in the 70's and 80's?

Maybe Ive been living in my own bubble and was able to instinctively weed out people in my life that weren't supportive to me. This has included somewhat recent estrangement with family members. They werent open or even really able to have a conversation about mental health - they just didnt have the capacity for it, and I stopped talking about anything that I was going through and decided not to ask for any help and just didn't talk about that stuff with them. Over time, my veiw of their family dynamics was that they were dysfunctional (but I keep that to myself, they certainly didn't see themselves as dysfunctional!). However, when Covid-19 hit, I found my family members to be very toxic and their own mental health was not good (but they had no idea of that). I decided it was best for me to cut ties (these were extended family members), and I felt very strongly that they were one-sided relationships.

The reason Im mentioning the above experience, is because when I see the shame some people have about their mental health, I can only imagine they must be surrounded by people like my extended family members and have a toxic support network??

Do people move in groups where mental health is looked down upon? Or is it people's pride, of independence and 'strongness' - that they cant bare to ask for help or recieve help?

[geoff]

Hello Ramblify, a great comment and there is much you have said that happened to me and can concur exactly with you.

There is much in your post that may need a couple of replies, but first, what I can remember is mental health changed from the '60s, 70's and 80's in that it was pushed aside if you were struggling and not treated as it should have, people only said that their friend wasn't feeling well rather than they are depressed.

Sometimes asking a family member for support while they are suffering can have different repercussions, they don't believe that anyone should be suffering as they have a terrific lifestyle and there is no reason why this should be happening, but this illness has no barriers, it affects anyone at any time.

People don't come out straight away and tell someone they have depression of any type, they tend to notice a change in routine or if they don't want to get out of bed before the topic is raised and people don't necessarily move in groups with this illness, they keep to themselves.

Geoff.

[Ramblify]

Hi Geoff,

Yes, I think you're right. Even I dont tent to talk about my mental health too much with friends and definitely not work colleagues - I guess the fear is that you will be misinterpreted. Because there are so many variations even just under the 'depression' umbrella. I often steer away feom talking about it because its a heavy subject - and I think not everyone wants to talk about that. So I have apsycologicst I see regularly who I feel comfortable to talk about things and she can handle the load.

Yes, I think there is a tendency to sweep depression under the carpet. And in some cases, even people who are a little bit educated think that not talking about it so much is better. I see this a big diffently these days - since Ive been supporting others - Im very aware of protecting myself (it's challenging - not to take on other peoples problems).

But also, there are outright denialists who dont believe in mental health - and sometimes they dont trust science or doctors too... There are people who have a distrust of psycologicsts/psychiatrists. And other people who a genuinely unintrested in any such subjects and they dont have a tolerance for discussion because they don't understand it or want ro understand it. Also, Ive only recently discovered that some (quite a lot) of people are in denial of there own condition - because that would mean they would have to admit something is 'not right' with them. I believe this sort of reaction is largely unconscious and probably a maladaptive coping mechanism. It unfortunate that in these situations, there's nothing anyone can do.. usually untill a medical emergency or something - gives them a reality check. It makes me wonder if Im in denial about anything and if im blindsighted to it!?

Mental health should be taught at school at a young age, so peopleare well aware if what it is. I remember going very basic things in health at school - keeping a healthy heart, sex education (which was pretty basic really), they dont even teach women's health (reproductive thinhs and things to look out for, diseases, where to seek out help ect. - its important.

[geoff]

Hello Ramblify, again you are so right in what you've said.

I definitely agree mental health should be discussed at school and have been saying this for a long time, little children whose mum and dad are continually arguing certainly affects the little ones who don't understand what it's going on and why and by not being able to talk about it at a young age, is where all of this starts to be hidden, this shouldn't happen, let the littles express how they feel.

When you begin talking to a friend, you want them to listen to you, rather than them telling you that you're making it all up, this is where the problem starts.

You are not in denial because you have expressed yourself so well and I can relate to everything you've said and I only wish some topics were taught at school, it's very much in need for this to change.

Little ones grow up to be adults and there was so much I wish I was taught that would put me one step ahead.

Geoff.

[mmMekitty]

Hello Ramblify,

I can only speak from experience, & having witnessed others around me, having mental health problems, & how social norms were when I was growing up.

Although I showed obvious signs & did things to demonstrate my distress, I recieved no support.

My father went through what I think was a depressive episode following 1974 flood in south-east Qld. He didn't or couldn't talk about his feelings, partly, being a man about it meant it was not something to readily admit to, so he struggled, did have some medication, I recall, & relied upon trying to engage with one or another of us around him, but it was awfully difficult. I think he felt such a lot of shame & having failed to be a man, to support us, to be strong etc.

When I did try to talk to him about my own mental health he poo-pooed the idea of seeing a Psychiatrist, saying they are 'witch doctors'.

My neighbours, when I was a teenager, were also a highly dysfunctional family. Dad was an alcoholic, Mum was the typically down trodden housewife, serving his needs, raising kids from a young age. Both of them not well-educated at all.

There was a dramatic incident, when I was fourteen, their eldest daughter 13, my best friend, so I tried to support her while she had to call police & have her own mother taken into custody, & then into a mental health facility. Where she met a Psychiatrist, who didn't respect professional boundaries, & didn't take any due care over her treatment. It all was seen as such a big shame, my friend & I were the only people to visit her during the three years she was there.

Unless my friend eventually sought help for herself or her younger sibs, there was none.

After many years I found help for myself. Found a GP who I was sure would be not old-fashioned, in that he was open to the diverse communities so often discriminated against in the wider community. It was still hard, & literally he poked a finger into the phone book to find a Psychiatrist for me. I got lucky then.

I would try to tell someone I knew about what was going on for me, & ended up with him expecting me to carry his load, too, secretly, which deepened & worsening as time went by until I could no longer accept his conditions for our relationship. I could not be so heavily responsible & ended it.

Other people didn't get it, & say , how blue the sky was & I should be happy / look on the bright side. I took these comments as signals they didn't know what to say, or didn't want to hear.

mmMekitty

[mmMekitty]

Oh, & welcome to the forum, Ramblify.

Would you share something about yourself? Have you experienced any discrimination because of a mental health issue? Have you felt stigmatised?

May I ask, are you undertaking some sort of formal studdy, at uni or something? It is just the language you use, some words & phrases give me this impression.

Following a major crisis of mine, I heard discussions about how my actions might cause other kids at school to act similarly, the old 'copy-cat' syndrome, they thought, so had me go to a school much further away for my year 10, & I boarded with a family during the school week, only going home for week-ends & holidays. I now know, I was feeling branded, 'dangerous' & so had to be taken out of harm's way. I had become such a big problem I had to be removed. & still, I had no counselling, therapy, or anything.

A couple other kids I knew had been 'taken away' or 'removed' & made wards of the state. That was a real possibility, if a child was deemed 'uncontrollable'. My own (ex-)stepmother used that threat against both her daughter & I on seperate occasions. She even had me tested, & I never found out if my father even knew she had done that. How could that happen? I will never know.

mmMekitty

[Ramblify]

Hi mmMekitty,

Wow, that really does sound like an aweful experience! I'm curious about the relationship between you and your phsychatrist - was he offloading his emotional baggage onto you?

It sounds like your GP was good! Im guessing you're about in your 40/50's also? - if your dad was in a flood in 74??

I'm.in my 40's. No not studying at University, I didn't excel at shcool, probably because I was depressed!

My writting depends on my energy level and mood, some days are better than others- I get a lot of blocks where the right words dont come to me (but I know them).

As for have I experienced discrimination or stigmatised - not really; I dont really tell people who arent professionals. I dont put it on job applications. I was diagnosed in about 1999 as a young adult - ADHD, Major Depressive Disorder and Generalised Anxiety Disorder (GAD); it took a few years of trials with different medications and talking weekly with a psychiatrist before I found an antidepressant medication that the doctor told me to stay on. It was difficult for about the first 18 months - I disnt feel myself, I felt my creativity and sex drive was stifled. I talked about my concerns with the psychiatrist and he arured me, I was still me.

As for the discrimination; I think its mainly been people like naturopaths and some religious people who seem to believe medication is 'bad'. And that kind of hurts. My mum's side of the family was against all of it - meds, psychiatrist ect.. anti-science I guess. I stopped telling them about any of my issues by about my mid 20's somewhere... Clearly they weren't going to be supportive of me - probably because they couldn't get over their own rubbish 🤷‍♀️ I decided they were toxic and dont talk to them.

I hope I've answered your questions a bit?

[mmMekitty]

zHa ha, even here people can't guess my age!😺 I was 13 yrs old in January 1974. We'd been in Australia not yet 4 yrs. So, now, I am 62 & might pretend to be one of your [parents!

That particular Psychiatrist was the second I had seen, when the first went interstate. He was so different, telling me mostly, little things, like favourite tv shows, liking foot, Stat of Origin, &letting me know he couldn't understand why I didn't like what he did. He told me he was married, had a child, & what movie he had watched with the child, liking that one too. He told me where he went on holiday, as if to boast. He wanted me to read a book he'd read. I could read printed books then. I'm still not sure why, because it had nothing to do with why I was seeing him. The most personal things were about my name change, which he did not approve, & would not call me by the name I said to use, & he told me how some guys in a pub admired his bum! What the????

As well, he was always late, ate things like apples & nuts, crunching while I was talking. He allowed the session to be interrupted of occasion. & most of all, it eventually got through my thick head, that he wasn't listening to me, even when I brought up how I felt he wasn't listening.

Then he move to another location, & there was no sense tof our sessions being private. I could easily hear his colleague in session in the next room, & the secretary at the desk.

& he was still late every time, sometimes having taken the time to fix himself a cup of coffee beforehand, even though he was already late

Eventually, I had had enough. Took me 14 years! It took me some more time to find someone else. She helped me with some practical problems I was having, but could not offer the length & frequency of appointments I wanted. So I went on another search, & after paying a lot over the Medicare Scheduled fee, I found the PDr I see now. He is very similar in some ways to the first. I've been seeing him for, well, more than 10 years - I lost track.

I really know nothing about him, other than what I can glean from having seen him, hearing him, being a PDr, not as a friend, not sharing his life with me at all, except the essential holiday dates, I don't even know what kind of car he drives, or if he is married, because my vision is now so poor I can't see if he has a ring or not. I don't know why he's baldy! I've only seen his shiny dome.

Nearly failed grade 10. Details later.

Sleep well,

mmMekitty

[geoff]

Hello Ramblify, exactly right, sometimes when you want to talk with someone about their own mental illness they tend to label you with a disorder that could be far from the truth or what you've been diagnosed with and then make comments which are not helpful at all, which can at times make them believe they may also have this illness and direct them another path which may not be appropriate.

I had replied to your comment yesterday but it hasn't appeared

Geoff.

[mmMekitty]

Hi again,

My (ex-)stepmother deciding what my subjects would be for grade 10, taking away some & putting in others, when grade 10 was supposed to follow on from grade 9, I was expected to catch up in those subjects I had not had in grade 9, & lost subjects I was good at in grade 9, science being the most important to me. She did allow art , which surprised me, because these were not practical in her eyes. The 'music' I thought I could continue,

turned out to be a free-time in the day, with no one officially teaching us. There was a choir,& I would have loved to continue with a choir, but they rehearsed on the Friday afternoon, so I could not, because I had to go home for the weekend.

Since I still felt bad, I cared little for study, homework, & the family I was with didn't keep an eye on that, so I didn't do well.

I think there may still be a common attitude that teenagers are dramatic, & go through 'phases' & will grow out of them

I think there was shame & embarrassment. People thought more about maintaining a reputation for being on top of things, showing they were successful, good parents, happy homes, with no problems. Signs of imperfection meant weakness, failure, laziness, or maybe even evil, in the eyes of some religious.

Epilepsy, schizophrenia & psychosis used to be thought of as demonic possession. People with learning disabilities were locked away in asylum. Happily (most of us) have come a long way from that. But there is still misunderstanding out there. Some people still casually blame overly protective mothers or really distant fathers, without knowing about someone's actual history, or genetics, or experiences or substances, which may contribute to conditions.

I'm sure people are still reluctant to disclose any mental health problem when applying for jobs, because they fear being 'marked down', because perceptions are that people with mental health problems are unstable, erratic, potentially violent, & unreliable. These people are more difficult than 'normal' people, so obviously, if you want the job, don't mention even a long past episode of illness. It's is so much easier if you don't have to explain or convince prospective employers.

It's not an easy discussion, when you want to be accepted & do an honest day's work. But mostly because of a general lack of education, & personal interactions with people with all sorts of histories, employers are unsure how to provide the support which may be required.

Keep well,

mmMekitty