Question about situational depression versus clinical/chemical

[Captain Australia]

My name is Simon, and four years ago I was diagnosed with an invasive head & neck cancer. The doctor told me how sorry he was, and gave me 6 months to live. He said if I wanted to fight, I had about 40% chance that the chemoradiation would get rid of the cancer, but it would cause me some chronic health problems. I fought, and I got lucky. (But with cancer, there's no such thing as lucky, not really).

The post treatment side effects haven't been a party, and my thyroid was devastated by radiation damage, such that over 4 years I put on more than 50kg in bodyweight.

I recently realised that I was probably suffering a reasonably serious depression, and it was only because I live in the light of the love of my wife and boys that I could muster enough power to do the barest minimum in self care. I didn't want to admit this, I'd say it's ennui, living in limbo (my cancer has a significant recurrence risk), I just didn't like looking head on into the idea of depression.

I left home when I was 15 (emancipated child), my mum was a junkie and the domestic situation was .. bad. Untenable. I slung a pack over my shoulder and walked from Brisbane to Sydney. It was massively healing, escaping a horrible situation where everything was broken and I had no real hope.

Recently inspiration struck me to do it again .. and it made me realise that I was broken, how I was waiting to die, not living. I realised that I had allowed myself to slip into a depression, where even surviving cancer, life stretched ahead of me sterile and uninviting. I felt adrift, separated from the world. The only thing keeping light glimmering in my life was my children. And ... ahh shit .. I realised .. I realised that I was underperforming as a parent. I was there, I cuddled, I loved .. but .. I was partly a ghost. I was no kind of role model.

Anyway, it flicked a switch in my mind.

Since then I've been walking daily, losing weight, attending to my health, and I feel strong, resolved. I wanted to share my story and ask if anyone thinks I might be exposed to diagnosable depression, or does it feel to you (as it does to me) that I've been stuck in a dark situational hole, but I've lifted myself out ?

Thanks for your time and insight ---- if you are suffering, I'm so sorry. Cancer taught me all about suffering, I think it's unlocked an empathy in me that was there before, but uncultivated. I sincerely wish you well.

[Ggrand]

Hello Captain Australia...

A very warm and caring welcome to to the forums...

Thank you so much for sharing your story with us..

Your post is a very inspiring post and will give hope to so many people here.....

I am sure how to answer your question about which depression you have had to struggle with...I am certain that depression does come by a diagnosis of ill health for us...I feel that regardless of how our depression found us...The general feeling is all the same...

You have shown so much courage and strength on your journey back to wellness...You have shown us the the depression beast can be casted out off us...

My daughter in law..has for now her brain cancer is in remission...she has been told that it could come back at any time...She now looks at life differently and is living each day to the fullest with my son (her partner)..and their children and grandchild...She also went into depression when she was going through her operation/radiation and chemo....Now she is free of it after a lot of fighting and finding herself....

Please feel free to keep talking here....and keep us updated on how your progressing....

I hope that you continue to go from strength to strength...

My kindest and most caring thoughts..dear Captain Australia..

Grandy..

[Captain Australia]

Hey there - what a kind reply, thank you. I wish I deserved your praise.

I wonder sometimes if I've suffered lifelong depression (I've always had a feeling of being 'outside' and a little bit 'unwanted'), and that the things normal people strive for are not really worth it. But I've also come from some pretty dark situations - so I've never quite been sure whether it's Depression (the bona fide disease with a capital D) or situational blues.

Cancer brought that into a new focus - as you say, surviving a bleak prognosis, you SHOULD feel free, chase your joy, live every life like it's a gift .. and yet a lot of that feels like a cliche, I guess ? It's a really weird distinction, because I have 'let go' of a lot of unnecessary garbage - but cancer looms ever on the horizon like an ever threatening storm. I'm so sorry about your daughter, NO CHILD should have to go through this shit. When I saw kids in treatment I'd be like "c'mon .. give me the extra cancer, just let the kid go !"

Even when you win with cancer, you still have to deal with the ever present threat of it showing up again like an unwelcome guest.

I wanted to explore whether my version of depression was:

-just a natural and in-proportion reaction to some pretty shit situations,

-a vulnerability where situations could trigger real clinical depression; or

-actual depression, that I'll continue to be vulnerable to

Having (for the moment at least!) a feeling that I've overcome it, I suppose I wanted to wrap it in understanding, and manage any ongoing risk on the front-foot. I figured my best way of doing that was to reach into a community like this, and get such kind responses from lovely people like you.

If my story is actually helpful to anybody, or inspires someone to fight their own depression ...

... I couldnt be more delighted !!!! :))

My message would be simple: I'm just a boofhead, anything I can do you can, for me it's about navigating toward a source of hope, and grabbing it hard with both hands (for me, it's the hope of returning to being a high scorecard daddy, feeling healthy again, and now a new thing: helping others).

I think I'll make a little video diary of climbing out of the hole I was in. (And am still climbing from). You've made me realise that some people might benefit from seeing a 50 year old trainwreck of a dude with chronic health problems transition from morbidly obese & sad to strong, healthy (and hopefully happy)

If there's hope for me there's hope for US! 🙂

[smallwolf]

hi and welcome.

Hope you don't mind if I reply based on own experiences here...

I have spoken to a few people who have come out the other side, and of that group some "relapsed" (?) during the whole Covid thing. Without any other information these are likely to be situational.

My dad has been on ADs for quite (!) some time. Not sure of what started it however.

To myself... when I started seeing a psychologist, I was frequently seeing my GP at the same time to check for any medically related. One thing we found out was that I have haemochromatosis which (and depending on what you read) has depression as a symptom. To remain "healthy" I get (and will have) therapeutic venesections through the Red Cross. In my naive understanding of things it is either combination of situation and clinical... or clinical.

As an aside - haemochromatosis in some ways is similar to depression in that the symptoms a person presents can different from one person to the next.

Your story will give hope to some people. So it should. It should also be possible for people like myself to get out of that hole you referred to in your initial post. There are days that I am out of that hole and sometimes it's deeper than it was before. I take comfort in something my psychologist said to me once... sometimes to get to the top of the mountain I have to go into a valley to find another way to the top, at some point the valley will start to go uphill again.

[Captain Australia]

Ahh mate, I can tell from your post that you're a lovely person, someone who's suffered and taken wisdom away (which is often the silver lining with suffering - perspective and insight).

Thanks for sharing your experiences. It doesn't really clarify things for me, except that - given the diversity that depression can manifest, I should probably play it safe and live my life as IF depression gets a place on my laundry-list of health concerns. My main concern (like with cancer) is recurrence, slipping backward.

When I was inside it, I don't think I felt particularly sad, just ... a bit bereft of hope, listless - nowhere to go and no reason to go there. But looking back as I'm climbing out, I can see I was just .. well .. waiting to die. I was flinching, waiting to see if the cancer would take me.

That's four years, mind you. Whether or not I had depression in my life prior to cancer is hard to say. If I did, I guess I've masked it and found ways to navigate around it - but there are niggly little signs there that give me a MAYBE. (Which is enough to be extra cautious about this cancer depression coming back, as the obesity will shorten my life if nothing else).

The real shame of it is the squandered time. I mean .. if your expiry date was 3 years ago and you're still kicking, then those 3 years are a gift, squandering (or not fully spending them) is a pretty sad outcome)

I've decided to get healthy, and in my situation that's a major challenge. I think having a challenge, some kind of direction, has been crucial for me, so I'd intend to maintain that. After I get healthy, I'm thinking of doing some charity walk (since my business went kerplunk, time on my hands). I think being useful to others is a great feeling.

So maybe you can take a bit of that ? Taking the time to respond and share is kind and definitely useful 🙂

I agree on that mountain thing, my one was always .. you can't win a war without losing a few battles. I mean if you don't lose any battles it's not even a WAR, it's an invasion.

Sorry, post cancer I have no filter, and I was a rambler BEFORE the cancer. Luckily this forum has a word limit (which actually peeves me, haha, but forces me to contain myself)

All the best !

[smallwolf]

The key for me is this... when I was told (diagnosed) with depression I saw it as a disease from which I could be cured. Just like a broken arm heals, so to with my mind. There was a goal line and that is what I was striving for. Problem was the goal line kept moving. I used many analogies with my psych* to work out the distance to the goal line. You can tell I had a hard time with acceptance.

Today I refer to myself as a work in progress... on a journey with no perceived end point.

And to finish with a quote... it does not matter how slow you move, as long as you are moving forward.

This is what keeps me going.

[monkey_magic]

Hi Captain Australia,

You have stuck in there and achieved something not everyone has had the fortune of achieving. That's a milestone worth celebrating but it's also come with it's challenges and now a question of whether you have depression and the type.

I'd focus on the cure.

For me it's been flooding my body with nutritients. I bought myself a juicer and have been drinking whole fruit and vegetables every single day for nearly 3 weeks now. It's reversed health problems for a lot of people. I also exercise ( swim laps) when I can.

Therapy also works for a lot of people, having a creative outlet, social contact, contributing to society and so on.

I'm just giving you an example of what's working for me. It's what I have to offer on my personal journey.

I have loads of weight to lose myself which is another reason I'm juicing. I've never been so healthy.

I believe you can achieve anything you put your mind to. You've accomplished a lot already. You can smash more goals. It's up to you. You have the inner resources to make mountains move in your life.

[Captain Australia]

I really appreciate the kind words.

If it's OK with you, I'm going to pretend they're coming from the ACTUAL Monkey Magic (Sun Wukong, the Monkey King).

I truly loved that show as a child and adolescent. I'd get bamboo sticks and make my own magic wishing staff. The idea of sage advice coming from MONKEY! Born from an egg on a mountain top ! just makes my life 8% happier.

It's the little things, right ?

Thank you for your kindness, and great advice. All the best.

[Gambit87]

I cant even begin to imagine what you have went through in your life, but youre an absolute warrior.

Thank you for sharing.

I'm slowly working my way out of the pit of depression myself. As long as I keep moving forward, I figured im doing alright.

[Captain Australia]

Hey There - that's very kind of you, thanks very much. I'm not sure I deserve it, but I have faced up to a few pretty horrible enemies, and I survived, even if I don't yet thrive.

But you know what ? It's kindness like yours that sparks me up big-time. Right now, I'm working like a beast to repair some of the damage cancer has done to me. I'm doing so great, I'm resolute, my heart is in it, I think I'm shaking away some pretty grim depression, and climbing out of that dark cancer pit. My thyroid was wrecked by cancer, and I piled on more than 50k in body-fat, meeting the criteria for morbidly obese. And this past fortnight ? Let me check my chart ... I've walked 187km. I've done intermittent fasting, mixed with metabolism-building healthy eating. A month ago, I never would have thought I could find a way to move forward, and now, I check the scales and I've dropped more than 10k, in a bit over 2 weeks. It'll taper off .. but it's a viking war-cry victory as far as I'm concerned 🙂

We are, each of us and all of us, capable of transformative change. I think that mental adversaries are tougher to beat than physical ones, and it takes a special kind of guts to face them head-on.

But I also think that KINDNESS has a ripple effect, my friend. Your kindness touches me, makes me work harder, makes me be kinder to someone else .. and so forth. Like a stone thrown into a pond, those ripples move across the water, going much farther than that initial splash.

Thank you for taking the time, I really appreciate it. In fact I'm going to put on some rap music and hit the road, get in a 10k (today was a non-fasting day, so I've eaten a bunch of salmon and some egg and mushroom at breakfast, and I made a promise to myself that I'd keep momentum and not relent until I'm no longer obese).

It's funny, we take the promises we make to OTHERS more serious than the promises we make to OURSELVES, sometimes. Something to think on, I guess. I'm done breaking promises to myself 🙂

Happy new year to you, I wish you well, and appreciate you.