panic attack at seeing people i know

[jacques]

hi there,

i am trying to leave my home more regularly as part of CBT to try to overcome my arophobia as well as other anxiety related problems, yesterday i when down the street with my mother to pay some bills, while sitting in the car i saw someone i knew from highschool 15 years ago and had a full panic attack, (fast breathing, full body shaking, seating, wanting to vomit, wanting to get out of the car and run to the safty of home), i don't know if this person even recognised me because it was so long ago, i am always so frightened to see anyone i know, this is partly the reason i do not leave my home, it is made even harder by the fact i live in a small town.

 i seem to find it harder and harder to want to go out, even just to sit in the car.

[jacques]

hi Amber,

As you know i have been having panic attacks about having to go away on holidays at Christmas, well yesterday i canceled with the family i was meant to visit, they were upset but understood why i can't go, but i have told mum to go and have a good Christmas (Probably the only Christmas she will enjoy since 2000).

I have been feeling really down since i made the decision yesterday, and have not been able to sleep or focus on anything else since, so it looks like Christmas on my own at home.

It will be interesting to see if i am able to cope without her, it is good she is able to get away from me for a while, and when i told her i would not be going she seemed to be relieved to be able to go some were without me, and be able to enjoy herself without having me bring her down all of the time.

Maybe i am causing her more problems than i am helping by being here.......

it will be better for ther family too as i always manage to put a dark cloud over any family event, and the family seem to feel awkward when i am around, no one knows what to say, they all have grown up kids with grandkids and top jobs, and i am the only one in the entire family who is a looser, which is good, i am happy all of my cousins have managed to make it in life.

not much else to say....

thank you for reading

Jacques

[AGrace]

Hi Jacques,

Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. Internet access here hasn't been the greatest, and then with the posting system down, I actually wrote 2 different responses but neither of them managed to work. So now here I am attempting a 3rd time:)

I'm glad you found mindfulness. It's good to try to practice whenever you can to build it as a daily (or for me 10 x a day) habit. It's something that we don't do enough of as we're always thinking of past or future. Did you google Tara Brach. She is one of my favourites, she has a beautiful voice to listen to. I know she does a lot of mindfulness exercises but she also has some really good podcasts on life in general.

Did your mum get any form of grief counselling when your father passed? Does she still see someone now?

I'm only going to say this, her being ok with your decision does not make it right. I can't force my beliefs onto you, but I know from chatting with you for some time now that it would be an absolute shame for you to go through with your plan.

I'm really sorry to hear how you and your mum struggled for so long. No one deserves to live such a tough experience. I can only hope that the good thing to come out of this is an appreciation for all the simple things in life. I think as a society we tend to lose track of all the things that we should be truly grateful for. 

I agree with the CBT comment. You also mentioned that sometimes you pace just to calm yourself down. Have you ever heard of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy? I guess the easiest explanation for this is if I tell you not to think about white elephants what happens? You find it difficult to think of anything else! ACT is all about accepting thoughts, feelings, and urges instead of trying to push them away. When you try to push away panic/anxiety what happens? It just gets worse. If you sit with it, make room for it, don't judge it, it tends to pass quicker. It's a tough skill to master but very worthwhile. I think you'll find it more helpful than CBT.

Your decision about Christmas, did you decide this for you or for others? You're possibly feeling a bit damned if you do damned of you don't. It's hard to please others, but even harder to please ourselves. From all your conversations here you are no less of a person than anyone. You are smart, thoughtful, conscientious, caring, and empathetic. I  hope you know I truly believe in you, even if you think no one could possibly.

Hope to hear back from you.

Amber

[jacques]

Hi Amber,

had a really bad day today spent all day in bed and only got up at 4pm because i had to.

Christmas is starting to become a real problem for me, it has for several years now, all Christmas is to me is a time for worry about who wants mum and i to go to their place or who will come to our house, either way it causes me a lot of distress, i have decided not to go for others and for myself, last christmas i made my aunty cry within 1 hour of her being at our house, and the uncle i was meant to see at christmas has his son moving oversesas for good, and having me around will just cause them more distress.  for myself i have been in a state of panic for the past 3 weeks about having to leave the house at christmas, and i thought not going would ease the anxiety but it has just made it worse, worrying about mum going without me, and about the offense i caused for not going.   life is really starting to get unbearable.....

i have downloaded an app for my smart-phone called "Don't Panic with Andrew Johnson" it is a form of mindfulness and it hasn't helped so far, but i will continue to try, and i have bookmarked and read about Tara Brach, Buddhist meditation is wonderful, i am going to download a pod-cast of hers tonight, but i have had for some time now Buddhist meditation dvd's, and used to play them regularly.

neither mum nor i have ever seeked grief counseling, when dad had Motor Neurone Disease, the constant 24 hour care he required, and when he died it was more of a relief that he was not suffering anymore.

I understand that you struggle with someone taking their own life (i.e. your previous partner), but this is all i have focused on for so long, for the past 13 years all that keeps me going is having to care for mum in her old age otherwise i would have gone a long time ago, right from when i left high school i knew this is how life was going to turn out, because i could not be away from home or my parents the only way i could find a way to be free of fear was to not be here anymore, and since then the fear has increased to unimaginable proportions.

the problem i have is not with CBT or acceptance it is when i get a panic attack i focus on it so much that nothing else registers and i continue focusing on the panic and what triggered the panic for hours until i become exhausted, CBT probably doesn't wok because i focus for hours before i have to go out. so i am already panicking before i leave.

Jacques

[AGrace]

Hi Jacques,

Don't forget that mindfulness and ACT are quite different to meditation.

I know from all your posts that you feel like nothing has worked in the past, and that can cause us to lose hope. What I love about your most recent post is that you've already downloaded an app, and you're willing to give mindfulness a go. It show's there's still a bit of willingness to seek help and even in that there is a tiny bit of hope for a different life.

I understand what you mean about your dad, and the relief you felt. I wonder if you associate this same relief from suffering with the relief you think you'll get from dying? The two are very different things.

I'm not here to change your mind, but at least offer you a chance to see some different perspectives as well. Maybe you've considered this for so long that even change is a scary thought?

Perhaps try to reconnect with the true meaning of Christmas. It's more than just about being around people. It's a time to celebrate life. I'm not at all religious. The first Christmas I had after my boyfriend raping me I actually had to go with him to our family Christmas party, because I hadn't told anyone about the rape and felt I needed to act as though everything was normal with our relationship. I wish to this day that I could've spent that Christmas on my own, I think I would have had a better time. Now that you've made your decision your job is to try not to think about it. This is what mindfulness does, it keeps us in the present, rather than worrying about what will happen in 4 months time.

Have you ever found a factual reason for your panic? Do you think you ever will? Is it helping you to focus on it and try to understand why it's happening? I have to do guided relaxation just to leave the house, but I don't do it just before and then stop. Sometimes I still have my app or CD on when I'm walking out the front door, when I'm driving my car, when I eventually arrive where I'm headed.

I know you've mentioned in the past that you need to be here to help with your mum. I don't want this to sound offensive, but what does your mum do for you? Do you enjoy her company? Does she help with treatment for you? 

You know if you had a counsellor or Psychologist come to your house, what would happen? Would you just be anxious and panicked? Would you be speechless? Would you be worried about what they would think of you? Do you think that therapists are familiar with situations like yours?

Amber

[jacques]

Hi Amber,

I have downloaded some of the Podcasts from Tara Brach, and listened to them 3 times last night and once this morning, they seem to help control the anxiety while i am listening to her speak, but the anxiety comes back as soon as the session ends, (it is good to think of something else even if only for 10 minutes).

I Don't know why i have always had anxiety, my mother and father and grandparents from both sides

suffered from some form of anxiety and i guess this did not make a good gene pool for me, but the intense anxiety over the past 13 years i do know what is causing it, but it is something i will never be able to talk to anyone about, not even a Psychiatrist.

and this is the reason i stopped seeing a councilor and Psychiatrist, because i was just wasting their time because if i can't talk to them about what is causing it what help will they be able to offer, their are more people out there that are willing and able to get help and i was just taking up a place that others could be getting benefits from.

My mother was the reason i got onto medication in the first place, she was begging me for ages to see the doctor, and when she went their with me on several occasions she asked the doctor to help me with

my anxiety. me wanting to look after my mother is because over my life time she has lost all of her savings, her independence and happiness because of me and i just want to be able to repay her in some small way, and this is all i can offer.

p.s. Amber please don't feel that you have to respond to any of my messages in the future, i am only trying to think out loud on here, and don't want to hamper or set back your recovery.

Jacques

[AGrace]

FYI

I don't feel like I have to respond to your messages. Neither you nor anyone else on the forums is hampering my recovery:)

[AGrace]

Hi Jacques,

Hope you're Ok.

You mentioned it felt like a waste of time speaking with a professional because you weren't able to reveal what you believe is causing your anxiety. I don't think it's necessary to reveal everything with your treatment team. They should still be able to treat the symptoms. Is there a reason why you don't feel comfortable sharing the cause? Is it through embarrassment, shame, guilt, fear? I don't expect you to disclose any more than you are willing. You are still worthy of getting the best care possible.

I think returning some of the favours to your mother is a beautiful idea. It sounds like she's been there with you through thick and thin. 

Have you been practicing any mindfulness exercises? I'm glad you liked Tara. Even if your anxiety settles for a little while, that must be a big relief for you. 

Amber

[jacques]

Hi Amber,

sorry i have not posted any messages lately, i have been feeling really down, ever since i made the decision not to go away for Christmas, i have not felt this low for a long time, it has been made worse because i have been reading about others on BB and read what they have experienced with their condition and  i know you said everyone is different, but it upsets me that i have not been able to experience something, anything....

Thank You for your concern for my wellbeing, it is much appreciated.

I know that medical practitioners have a doctor-patient confidentiality but i do not trust this, and will never be comfortable talking about it anyway, it is just something i am going to have to live with and deal with it as best i can. How would it be possible for mental heath team to treat something i can't tell them about?  it is not possible, i think i will always be stuck in a ground hog day situation were i will always be going round in circles with them, this is partly the reason why i stopped treatment, so as you can see i am a lost cause, but it would not matter if what gives me anxiety now was different, i would be suffering anxiety for another reason, it is just the way i have lived my entire life.

The only way i am ever able to function is if the fear of not doing something over-rides the fear of doing it (if that makes any sense). my whole life has revolved around fear for as long as i can remember.

This is why i feel so guilty about what my mother has had to suffer, because of my decisions in my early life not only am i having to suffer but my other has paid a heavy price too, as she has had to use all of her life savings looking after me, she has sacrificed her future financial security for me. and caring for her in her older life is a small price i am willing to pay.

i have been trying to practice mindfulness, but i am finding it hard not focusing on the past or future, my mind always goes to some were else, i have downloaded many of her pod casts an i have been listening to them when i go to bed at night, i still can't sleep without panic attacks through the night, but it gives me a few moments of thinking about something other than the anxiety, she has some quite funny stories in her seminars, and this gives me a way of staying in the moment.

the book you recommended will be arriving on Tuesday and i will be reading it as soon as it arrives.

thank you for always responding to my messages.

Jacques

[AGrace]

Hi Jacques,

Hope the weekend has been kind to you.

I actually headed of to Melbourne Zoo today. It was nice to spend some time among nature and feel a little more grounded. Animals always seem as though they don't have a care in the world, it kind of puts things into perspective a bit. I think it makes you realise that a lot of the problems we face as humans, humans actually created themselves. At the end of the day what do we really need to survive? Food, water, shelter, sleep, and some form of connection with others. We add so much more to this list which really isn't necessary.

Hey, I don't think I've mentioned this to you before, but after reading how determined you are that you won't benefit from professional intervention, I wondered whether you have ever visited the Centre for Clinical Intervention website? They are a WA based organisation, and although they provide programs in Perth, they also have an extensive array of workbooks which are available on their site for patients to complete on their own. A lot of the Psychologists while I was at the Melbourne Clinic used their resources. They have workbooks on helping with Anxiety, Panic Attacks, and Social Anxiety. They also have a huge range of other resources too. Could be worth you looking at.

Sounds like you've fallen in love with Tara...told you she was good. Have you listened to her Guided Mindfulness CD? You mentioned that you'd been practicing mindfulness still. It can be really hard until you get used to the idea that it's purpose is not to push your intrusive thoughts away, but just recognise they are there and bring your attention back to what you are focusing on. I did mindfulness with a piece of chocolate while I was at the zoo today, because I felt a bit anxious being around so many people after a couple of hours.

Have you done any research on fear? Interestingly enough it's a learned experience. We are only born with the fear of falling, all other fears we actually learn and convince ourselves they are real. If you google cci fear, the shy no longer activity actually talks about graded exposure strategies to help with overcoming fear.

Ok, so perhaps some things for you to do while you're waiting for the book to arrive on Tuesday:))

Oh, and you're welcome, I'm happy to reply to your posts. I just hope you will let me know if I ever say anything wrong or I'm too pushy about anything.

Amber

[jacques]

Hi Amber,

It's great you were able to go to the zoo today, i live across from a farm were i live, and they have a lot of animals and i think this is the only thing keeping me sane at the moment, i love watching their antics and them going about their daily routine, i could and do watch animals for hours on end and seem to be more comfortable watching wildlife than talking to people. i would be so happy living deep in a forest without any human contact and just be in the wild.

i agree that us humans have created our own problems, but our way of life has been setup so long ago and their seems to be no other way of being, you either conform to society or else.

No i have not heard of the Centre for Clinical Intervention website, i will check it out, but it's not that i am not i don't think i will not benefit from professional help, i just don't want to wast their precious time if i am unable to cooperate with their requirements.

i am listening to Tara now while writing this message, you are so lucky being able to control your anxiety while in public, i just seem to lose it and nothing else seems to exist but the panic attack, i have not listened to her cd but i have downloaded most of her podcasts, i have been listening to them several hours a day.

When i was at the psychologist i had a conversation  with him about fear and my theory is no human is born with fear not even fear of falling, when my father was studying at CSU to be a psychologist he was in the final stages of his illness and i had to type all of his assignments for him, and i had to read to him all of the text books also, while reading them it seemed to me that the child putting it;s hands out when falling was a physiological response and not a fear response. but i may be wrong, but i understand what you are saying if fear is a learned condition it can also be unlearned.

You are the only one my age that i have ever spoken to about any of this, and i respect what you say and are trying to do to help me, you have always come across as only helpful.

i will have a look tomorrow at the workbooks....

Thank you

Jacques