panic attack at seeing people i know

[jacques]

hi there,

i am trying to leave my home more regularly as part of CBT to try to overcome my arophobia as well as other anxiety related problems, yesterday i when down the street with my mother to pay some bills, while sitting in the car i saw someone i knew from highschool 15 years ago and had a full panic attack, (fast breathing, full body shaking, seating, wanting to vomit, wanting to get out of the car and run to the safty of home), i don't know if this person even recognised me because it was so long ago, i am always so frightened to see anyone i know, this is partly the reason i do not leave my home, it is made even harder by the fact i live in a small town.

 i seem to find it harder and harder to want to go out, even just to sit in the car.

[AGrace]

Hi There,

Firstly, can you stop beating yourself up over the question. Knowing that it's making you suffer is far worse than talking about it. It doesn't bring up bad memories, it reminds me of how hard I've worked. Because I had ECT not long after the last time, I actually have little memory of the specific details. I stand by the fact that it's better to talk about it than to add to the stigma by not saying anything.

I wasn't implying that you go looking for someone, the emphasis was on the "I'd do anything". If you really feel that way, then maybe it's time to try something.

Ok, you're really good at self blame, I commend you for your efforts. You are not responsible for how your mum is. I spent most of my life with a cheating father, does this mean I am destined to become a cheater? Does your mum still seek professional support? Why don't you both try to get through this together? It might be easier knowing that you can support one another through the difficulties of getting to appointments, speaking to people etc. You may  have given up hope, but hope has not given up on you:)

I'm glad you have nothing to do with the monster anymore. You could still write a letter, putting how you feel down on paper can be very empowering and cathartic. You can post your letter here if you like?

It sounds like a lot of people want to have something to do with you guys. Are you really that popular that people rock up on your doorstep all the time? My doorbell rings once a week, and every time it's my Psychologist. You may not have anywhere to hide on the outside, but you still have coping strategies. Safe place imagery, mindfulness, grounding, self soothing. There's not a lot that someone could say to me anymore that I would find ridiculous. Seriously, at the age of 34, I can't go to the toilet in public, I can't sit on a public toilet seat, I can't go to places that don't have a toilet, as soon as I get somewhere I have to know where the toilet is....trust me I understand crazy!!!

Whether you look at the ground. listen to music, keep your eyes closed, sing to yourself, scream the entire way, or cry for most of the journey, the point is that you are still doing it! I think this is such a wonderful achievement. 

Oh and BTW I'm not in hospital yet. I don't go until Tuesday.

Amber

[AGrace]

Well Good morning,

You're possibly ready to go back to sleep now, since you've been up for so long:)) I used to do the 2am wake ups, now my sleeping pattern has changed, I struggle to get to sleep, and consequently struggle to wake up.

Ok, so I'm sending you a virtual cake with candles in celebration of longevity and success. In all seriousness though, that's an amazing feat. What do you attribute it to? I just hope that you get something out of posting here, the one thing I have noticed is that you have opened up more about your daily life than when you first started posting. I'm really proud of you for feeling safe enough to do so.

As per the previous post, I'm not yet in hospital so no medication changes just yet. I'll be sure to let you know next week though. I know everyone reacts differently, I guess I'll take each day as it comes. I actually used to dread going into hospital. Every time I went I felt like I'd failed. Now I know how beneficial it is to have round the clock care. The nurses I've so far had looking after me have been so compassionate, which makes the stay a little easier. I do remember having one nurse yell at me for engaging in self destructive coping strategies. He told me he was going to tie my hands behind my back. I told my Psychiatrist about this and I never saw the nurse at the hospital again...I'm guessing he was fired.

You're right, most people don't know what it's like to not be able to work. Most people assume it's a choice of being lazy. Many people come up with various names for people who are forced to seek government assistance. It's really quite horrid. One can only hope that these people get a chance to experience first hand what it's like. 

The ruminating is a symptom of the illness. I do it too, and have no doubt that many others do as well. It's good that you recognise you're doing it. Do you try to practice CBT or mindfulness when it happens? I go to a BPD support group on Monday nights, and the facilitator was telling us that she has an alarm set every hour. A bell tolls, and a little message comes up saying "Are you being mindful?" I thought this was a good idea.

Have you finished the book yet? Have you made a decision about Christmas? 

Amber

[jacques]

Hi Amber,

you should have seen my mother before i got severe anxiety, she was "normal", now she is showing major signs of anxiety, after reading the book you recommended it is possible it is a learned behavior, isn't it? she has been around me like this for over 14 years, she had a hard life on a farm, her father drummed into her you deal with your own problems, so no she has not received help and never will.

No we do not get a lot of visitors, mu only has one friend and she visits once a week, but i never know when she is coming, so it is difficult for me, we see family maybe once every 3 years, but i am always concerned someone will come around, every time i hear a noise that sounds like the gate i race to my room until i am confident that no body is there.

you are right i am feeling so tired i will be going to sleep in a few minutes, will only sleep for about 1-2 hours though before i wake up in a panic again.

i don't know what i attribute speaking to you too, maybe it is the anonymity and knowing i can leave the forum at any time, and no one will be able to contact me again, but i honestly don't know, but i can't believe i have stayed on here so long.

i recognize i am ruminating because that is all i do day and night, i have realized this has made my condition a lot worse, when i was busy at high school i had very little time to think about anything, but since then that is all i have had, time, i am continually thinking about all of the things i have done in my life, what i could have changed, and what i would do differently if i ever got the chance.

it is always such a blur when it happens after i wake up, i am always in a daze and i don't understand why i am panicking in the first place, then after a while i go back to all of the bad things i have done in my life and this makes things 10 times worse.

i know i should try Something, but it is just to frightening to change the pattern i am in, i have just gotten to the point where i am to frightened to do anything.

yes i have finished the book, it was a great read, and no i have not made a decision about Christmas, but i panic about it every day, i would have to be the only person around who does not want a holiday, most people would fall over themselves to have a holiday on a private estate, but not me, ever since i was a little kid i have always disliked holidays. i just wish my mothers family would concentrate on each other and less on mum and i, this wold make life so much more easier.

bye

Jacques

[AGrace]

Hi Jacques, 

I hope you don't decide to up and leave, who's going to get me through my week in hospital? 

In an earlier post you mentioned that you wished your parents had sought help for you when you were little, why didn't they? I get that your mum grew up with this, you'll be right attitude. Do you think she had the same attitude toward you? You've suffered the worst of your condition since you were 12, why did you only get access to help in your 30's? When you stopped participating in life 14 years ago, why weren't you taken to get help then?

In terms of your mum, it's not very common for a parent to learn from their child. If your mum was happy catching up with friends, and going into town, why is she not still doing these things? Perhaps you could encourage her?  

I'm reading a book at the moment about a woman who seemingly starts having panic attacks as a teenager. As the story goes you discover the reason for her agoraphobia and panic is that she had quite an unsettling childhood. It's an autobiography, so I'll let you know what she eventually does to overcome her illness. It has prompted me to as though?  Why do you think your panic and anxiety started?

What are all the bad things you have done in your life? 

If your medication isn't helping, why doesn't your Dr change it? 

As a sufferer of anxiety we spend so much time on making sure others don't bother us, they might want us to step out of our comfort zones, so it would be better if they just left us alone. We do everything in our power not to have to face up to our fears. The only thing this is beneficial for is the anxiety itself. 

Amber

[jacques]

Hi Amber,

thank you for wanting me to talk to you, but i think you are quite strong enough to get through your hospital stay on your own;)

i think my parents didn't get treatment for me because they thought i would "grow" out of it, both of my parents had bad childhoods and are very emotionally disconnected, it was not their fault they are like this, my father grew up in post war Germany and spent most of his young life in a "boys home" and my mother had a hard life on the farm as i explained in an earlier post, and i think that is why i am this way, because there was no emotional connection, i always feared from when i could remember that they would leave me, and because i have no contact with dad's family and extremely limited contact with mum's family i always felt i was alone.

I never sought treatment after high school because i quite enjoyed being alone, i found it too stressful having friends, maybe i just picked the wrong people to be friends with?, i don't know, but it was only financial problems in the last 2 years that i have sought treatment, if it were not for money problems i would still be existing like i was.  sometimes i wounder it it was worth trying for treatment two years ago, maybe i would have been better off continuing as i was?

i only see my doctor once every 6 months, he doesn't know how effective my medication is, it is not his fault though, he wanted me to book an appointment with him every month, but i have refused.  anyway the medication is taking the edge off the anxiety and that is all i want.

As i have said in earlier post all of the bad things i have done in my life i will never be able to talk about.

I will be interested to here how the lady in the book got over her anxiety, although i have never seen anyone who is truly "cured" they just have moments of peace, i have been quite shocked reading a lot of the post on the BB forum of people who have never been free of anxiety, just had moments without it.  Over the past several years i have seen adds on TV stating that you can be free of anxiety, but i have never met or read about anyone who is truly free.

i know not wanting to talk or interact with family is the anxiety, but in some ways i often wonder whether a part of me resents the family, because i see so many families that are so close and i have never had that in my family, being an only child i think makes this worse, having no friends, no partner, no family you are truly alone.....

Bye

Jacques

[AGrace]

Hello,

When you say the medication is taking the edge off the anxiety, and that is all you want. I can't help but think that it's only because you know no different, and perhaps don't realise what more you could have. If all my medication was doing was taking the edge off my anxiety I honestly wouldn't be here. 

Hearing about your parents' childhood reminded me of my father. His experience was the same. No love, no emotion, no bond, no interaction, no connection. I know inside this is probably what led to his affairs, a sheer desire to feel wanted. It would be more likely that your mum's anxiety stems from her upbringing and losing your father than from you and your behaviours. 

No one is ever cured of anxiety, to me, it's a necessary part of life. Just like stress, you can have distress - which isn't very helpful, and eustress- which serves to motivate. Anxiety can have unhelpful effects if it's not evolutionary necessary, but can be useful as a warning, excitement, or to improve performance thanks to the increase in adrenaline. So I think reaching for no anxiety is unattainable, being able to manage anxiety, fear, worry in order to avoid secondary suffering is more realistic.

Have you watched Tara's youtube clip called Finding the Juice Inside of Fear?  It's quite a good one. If you watch it take note of the amount of times Tara licks her lips. Even she experiences a degree of fear or anxiousness about public speaking. Hopefully you won't focus only on this:) 

But if you think of the potential for her nervousness to spiral out of control, it kind of puts anxiety into perspective. Tara could start focusing on licking her lips constantly, then she might worry that others have also noticed this, then she might experience another bodily sensation, then she might lose her train of thought, then she might worry that her audience don't find her professional, then she might start to think she's not good enough, this might cause her to start sweating and shaking, then she might worry that the audience will walk out, then she may feel hopeless...What do you think would happen if she was asked to give another talk later? Can you recall her initial concern? 

This is pretty much what used to happen to me when I was training, until eventually I just couldn't face going to work anymore. So one small symptom quickly becomes an overbearing issue, so powerful it results in avoidance. 

Some food for thought. 

Amber

[jacques]

Hi Amber,

I have just downloaded the video and am watching it now, but the video is quite big, and i have limited internet, so i won't be able to watch too many, but it is quite interesting wathcing her talk, i can't believe she is so nervious, listening to the pod casts she sounds so confident.

Maybe you might be right about the medication, i will speak to my doctor about it when i see him in 3 months time. i am always fearful that if i lose the anxiety i will go back to making major life mistakes that put me in this situation in the first place, some of the things i have told you about my yonger life is only some of the less severe things that have happend to me in my life. 

I found that because my parents had no emotional attachment to their parents they had no emotional connection to me, have you found his with your parents?

my parents always made sure i had all of the material things i ever desired, i ws always well fed, had all of the toys i wanted, was always well dressed, but their was very little physical contact (hugs, etc) have you eperianced this with your parents also?

i understand what you are saying about Tara, if you don't face the anxiety it will become blown out of proportion to the original situation, i think because all i have ever known is anxiety, fear and depression, i have always blown things out of proportion, ever since i can remember i have gone over situations of a night, every night and i just can't seem to stop.

i was not saying people are ever completly free of anxiety per-say, i just meant people have reoccuring symptoms over their life time and i wonder whether it is worth getting control of my symptoms, to start a new life just to go back to this way of life in 5-10 years, knowing what a happy life is is more distressing to me than not knowing at all.

 i am sorry i never post any "Happy" posts like others on this forum are able to do sometimes, i am just never in a mind set to be "happy".

do you know if your mother has ever forgiven your father for the affairs?, why has she been able to stay with him? do you think you will ever be able to come to terms with you mother forgiving him and staying with him? will you be alble to ever forgive him completly? i know this is a delicate situation for you and please don't feel you need to respond, it is just some questions to ask yourself.

thank you for telling me about Tara, i have been getting increasing panic attacks at night and listening to her has managed to get me through most nights

[jacques]

Hi Amber,

Just read back through some of your posts, i understand what you are saying about public toilets, i have the same problem, i can't go to any public toilet, i will "Hold it" until i get home, no matter what.

well i have broken a record last night, it took me four and a half hours last night to get to sleep, and when i did i woke up in 2 hours, (looks like their was no point trying for sleep anyway), i was in such a panic, nothing helped, i tried eveything o no avail.

bye

Jacques

[AGrace]

Hi Jacques,

I hope you liked the video. Yep, even those of us who seem confidant get anxiety.

My mum was quite affectionate, yet always invalidating. She's one of seven children and her father was a heavy drinker and gambler. So they grew up with little money. When she was having a depressive episode, a nervous breakdown, or when my father would leave, my sisters and I were disregarded. We received little comfort from her. After my first attempt she sent me off to live with my aunty, which made me feel like she couldn't help me. My father was never very affectionate, but then he was also not home much. If he wasn't with another woman he was away on business trips. He also did a fairly long stint of night shifts, so if he was home he was sleeping. He used to yell at us if we were sick because he couldn't handle it. I think I always felt like he didn't love us and that's why he looked for other families. I think when he blamed me for all of his affairs that was the last straw, I know this is odd, but I get kind of sickened by him. He tries to overcompensate now but when he hugs me I just feel gross.

I think revising your medications is a good idea. Do you take sleeping tablets? I noticed you didn't have a good night's sleep. Sorry to hear about that. When I'm really down I don't sleep at all. I went two weeks with five hours sleep during one of my hospital admissions. My Psychologist told me not to try and force sleep. If you are awake take advantage of the extra time. So now when I can't sleep, I'll either jump on the forums, read, or draw. I came off sleepers about 6 weeks ago. My sleep is kind of all over the place now. One thing I never do is sleep during the day, it just stuffs everything up.

Do you write at night time when you're having all these thoughts? I find it helpful to get everything out and on paper. I can't tell you how many journals I have. The other thing I do is give myself a time limit on thinking, 5mins or 20mins, and then I try to think about books I'm reading, song lyrics, or I'll use some distraction. We blow things out of proportion because we believe our thoughts. They aren't true though, and normally never eventuate. Do you ever say your thoughts in your mind in the voice of a cartoon character? It really disempowers them.

I think you post very thoughtful posts. They don't have to be happy, and not many others' are. You've given me an idea, do you think it's possible for me to get you to laugh? I will try this in my next post.

[AGrace]

Sorry, I ran out of characters:)

When you wake up in a panic are you worried about something in particular? What sort of thoughts go through your mind? Are you frightened of something? Could you have had a nightmare?

You mentioned that last night you tried everything, to no avail. What strategies did you try? I'll see if I have some others in my bag of tricks:)

If you just let the panic attack happen, and don't do anything, what happens? Does it eventually pass?

I started out thinking that I could hold on, eventually it got to a point where I just wouldn't leave the house, through fear that I would have an upset stomach. Eventually I became so anxious about this that I'd literally wake up every morning with an upset stomach. It went on for so long that I forgot what it felt like to not have to go to the bathroom as soon as I woke up. I used to ask my partner "don't you need to go to the toilet in the morning?" and he'd say no. I used to think that was a luxury I would never again experience. Ok, enough toilet talk 😉

I've asked myself those questions over a million times. I think my mum has forgiven him, but I also think that part of her went with the option "better the devil you know". I'm not sure why she has been able to stay. One of my sisters and I did ask her once and she couldn't really answer. I guess she always hoped he'd change. He doesn't have affairs anymore, but he does lie and live in denial. They both actually act as though it never happened. No one is allowed to talk about it. Coming to terms with my mother's decision? No, I don't think I ever will. It completely goes against my values and morals. I could never stay with someone who cheated on me. Sadly one of the traits of BPD, as you know, is a fear of abandonment. I spent my life assuming that every guy I was with would leave me, including my current partner. I'm working on this though. In short I will never forgive him, there's too much hurt and he can't take any of it back, nor would he ever try. Because it's shoved under the carpet, he would never even bring it up to ask for forgiveness. Thanks for asking those questions. As much as I've asked them of myself, no one has ever bothered to ask me.

Ok, I'll sign off now, and I'll try to put something funny together for the weekend:)

Hope that you get some sleep tonight.

A