Family Member who won't seek help

[Sparkling2003]

I have a family member who can be very irrational. We have tried talking to them but they get verbally abusive towards the rest of my family. Every time they get upset/set off they blow the situation very out of proportion and they bring up issues that happened from years ago and even trivial disagreements like what sports team they go for gets blown out of proportion. They are under a lot of stress and we've encouraged for them to seek therapy and medication but they refuse or it then becomes a bigger argument as they claim they are fine and don't need help. The most frustrating part of it all, is that they make jokes all the time but whenever someone else does it becomes offensive to them. We have tried creating better boundaries but they go one step further by blocking us on everything. Really trying to seek some help on what we should as we are at loss with our family member. They are very emotional about everything we say or do even if it's trying to help in our eyes. Every move we make is the wrong one and we are feeling very defeated about the whole thing. It brings everyone else in our family lots of anxiety and sadness. We want to help them but they are refusing help. Does anyone have advice or guidance for going through something similar. 

[white knight]

Hi, welcome

I'm going to assume they are over 18yo, under that you could have some control, sadly though over 18 and they are adults, your ability for them to seek help is restricted to what you have been doing.  The reason for this is that in some cases (not saying this one) there are some people that have ulterior motives for a family member to seek help for mental illness, be it inheritance or some other subject involving manipulation. So adults have the right to reject any form of advice given to them. This doesnt help people like you though.

My wife and I have a 21yo foster son with low functioning autism. In the past he has been really difficult to manage and we found that hard love was our last resort. When our young man worked part time we demanded a daily rent amount, food cost and so on. We then explained to him that he was lucky as we gave him water and electricity for free, he was aghast.

So it depends on your situation, their age, what relationship you have with them that determines any hard love.

The other option is to wait until they need to attend their GP. Then go along with them and at the end of the consultation bring the topic up. 

Apart from that you could wait for the right moment they break down or have a major issue before you see a opening you can capitalise on . 

Denial is a difficult topic to tackle for a loved one and I'm sorry you are enduring this.

TonyWK

[Sparkling2003]

Thank you for your kind words and support!

Yes unfortunately it's a 49 year old woman who is a mum of three. We've have offered to go to appointments with her but she refuses. We also think that menopause may be a factor in it all, a real combination of things impacting her mental health, so were really at a loss. She believes she is too young for menopause or she's in denial as well about how much it can really impact a woman's life. We've tried to set some boundaries as a psychologist suggested to us, but she just interprets those boundaries as non-supportive, non-apologetic and as if we are abandoning her as we are not coddling her anymore. We've always been the ones to apologies despite her verbal abuse. We have even suggest family therapy so we can understand her perspective in a controlled environment. We have thought that we may need to wait for a break down to get anything from it but we feel wrong and guilty waiting for her to hit rock bottom for something to happen. 

Trying to seek alternative advice or re-assurance if what we are doing is right or if we are wrong by setting boundaries? We want this to stop but unfortunately even when we resolve problems, things are fine but then something sets her off a few months later and then she brings up everything from the past despite us putting it to bed. It's a never ending cycle. 

[Scared]

Yes thats very hard situation.

We teach others how to treat us

We teach them by allowing them to be abusive or have it their own way without any consequences.

If we dont pull them up for their behaviour it continues on and its you teaching them that its ok to disrespect the household.  Thats the message the disruptive person gets if they are not challenged.

I hear you try things but are not working but if these things have been going on for a while it wont be fixed overnight.

One approach is the family unite as one without the disruptive person present and ignore the jokes and unfair behavior as a whole.  Let them be alone on their own and when necessary call out their bad behaviour without blaming or any angry responses. It ok to say that you are good people who worry and have offered help but deserve better for the love we have for the disruptive person.

Its no point in therapy if they wont go and it wont be easy to train this as it can take a long time.  This is when the family really need to unite for support of one another in this long battle.

I can give you an eg of what happens when we teach children that abusive is ok.

A very angry 14year old who demands everything from her mom.

Her mom runs around all the time for this child to appease this person.

If the child wants to hangout at midnight around shopping malls the mother cant stop it.  The mom has no control over if or when the child goes to school because this child has learnt there are no consequences in life.

Now the child has started to physically assault the mother including spitting and name calling and its getting worse as the child grows.  When asked what the mother should do I said " this child has been getting away with everything for 14 years and you have been reinforcing the bad behaviour by appeasing this child and you cant expect this child to change overnight because you want them to"

I dont have children and I have great respect for those who do because I dont think I could do any better.

And for the mother in the eg I understand why appeasing a child is favoured just to get some peace or have their child get ready for school.

This is not blame its about understanding why discipline and consequences are important in young minds and how behaviours are developed.

Its far easier to correct behaviour as it happens but left unchecked for 14 years makes it difficult .

Again i say I think parents have a really tough job at times and im sure love is where strength comes from to be a parent

[white knight]

Thankyou for replying and thanks to "Scared" for helping also

As you can determine now it is a difficult thing. There is so many questions that cant be answered. You do indicate there is some sort of cycle, that could mean something in a diagnosis sought by a professional down the track. A notepad with these outbursts could also be handy. It's a fine line and easy to slip into the interfering category.

One thing I learned years ago to make people accountable for their behaviour is to put questions to them. EG  say they are warned not to discipline your children as she has done in the past when your kids are just being kids (a hypothetical) 

She yells "stop yelling children"

You say "why are you telling them to stop yelling"?

She says "they are too loud"

You say "do you remember I told you last year not to discipline my children"? (now dont talk until you get an answer)

She says "no I dont and they are too loud"

You say "do you think you have a right to yell at my children in my home"

She says "yes, if they are naughty"

So you get the picture, questions that make them accountable for ignoring directions and thinking they can do as they please.

In a sense you'll likely lose them anyway, there isnt much you can do to avoid that. When a relative over steps boundaries you have a right to put in place there isnt many other options.

The presenting of a barrage of questions makes them answer for their own errors. In effect you are only asking questions and they are answering to themselves.

I hope that makes sense.

TonyWK

[therising]

Hi Sparkling2003

Sounds like an incredibly frustrating situation for you and your family and my heart goes out to you, especially at such a challenging time.

I've found there can be some people who are reason able (reasonable) and some who are not, who typically won't give or accept valid reasons. Some of the factors that can be behind this can include a closed mind that you couldn't even pry open with a crowbar, lack of skills in reasoning, an inability to be able to see or visualise reasons due to a lack of insight, hindsight or other form of sight, other people's reasons not being relatable, an altered state of consciousness (only being conscious of what's depressing or stressful etc and nothing else) and the list goes on. Sometimes it can be about leading a person to wonder before leading them to find reason/s. For example, 'Do you wonder why you're feeling so intensely these days? Do you wonder why you've become so sensitive to the point where you can sense or feel just about everything?'. Of course, there are some folk who can't even be led to wonder. 

With menopause or peri menopause, it's typically looked at as a problem, as opposed to being a developmental stage. For sure, absoluely, 100% there are problems that can come at this stage of life but a slightly different spin can look like

• Coming into intense emotional power. The problem can involve an inability or lack of the kind of self understanding and skill it can take to manage such energy or energies in motion (e-motion). And when it comes to chemical energy, the 'power surges' of super intense energy can feel rather hottish indeed. Takes a heck of a lot of energy to reform a woman's body at this stage of her life
• Super sensitivity. When you've gone from sensing in general to sensing everything intensely, how to sense strategically?. How to manage what is being sensed can be the ultimate challenge. For example, we could say 'I can sense you thinking less of me. How do I manage that degrading feeling that I feel, you seeing me as less than what is acceptable? How do I mange you seeing me as worth less'
• An empowering level of intolerance. I have to say that when an intolerant facet of self suddenly fully comes to life it can be one hell of a challenge. While the intolerant part of us can be seriously upstanding, while not letting people walk all over us, it can at times get out of control. If you can imagine it not simply leading us to burn bridges but taking to those bridges with a high powered flame thrower, this is definitely something that needs managing. If there's not some wiser part of us in play that insists on stuff along the lines of 'Do not, whatever you do, burn this bridge', there's nothing the reign in the intolerant part of us. The challenge may involve bringing other facets of our self to life at this time. Whether that involves our inner sage, the wonderer in us (that can lead us to wonder about greater ways of managing), the analyst, some zen-like facet in us or some other part, something's gotta keep the reigns on what can get out of control if not managed

Just a few of the many abilities/problems/challenges.

For some, it can be more complex, such as going through a physically altering and mind altering stage of life with an ADHD brain to begin with, for example, or it can be a major struggle for someone who's already a sensitive type. Hyper sensitivity, for some, can feel a little like hell on earth (for them and/or those around them who are walking on egg shells).

[Sparkling2003]

Thank you all for your insight, advice and understanding! 

We are trying out hardest to set these boundaries to avoid her thinking that it's acceptable. It's very sad because now she is not speaking to us at all. As I said before it's a combination of a lot of things. The most frustrating part is the hypocrisy. She can do/say whatever she wants but when someone says anything even if it's to help her or give her advice it's deemed as an attack. When we advise her to seek help, it's not to make her feel bad or put blame on her it's solely just to better her life and the lives of everyone else around her. You can see how exhausted she is being filled with all the anger and negative emotions 24/7. We are worried that we will lose her and our relationship with her forever but unfortunately you can only try and help someone for so long before it starts to impact your sanity. I feel like I'm failing by putting my happiness first now. 

[Scared]

No putting yourself first is the right thing to do.  Its not so much putting happiness first but more your mental health which comes first and happiness next in line.

So discussions around how the family takes care of themselves rather than how the family takes care of the troubled one is probably the way to go.

This does not mean abandoning this person by any means.

The troubled person needs to feel like they can always come for help.

Yes this person sounds very troubled and if you cant fix them no matter what you try then attention needs to be drawn onto the health of the rest of family.

A weekly debrief meeting once a week where other members can vent their frustrations and bond together whilst the troubled person is out.

Of course this not stops you from telling the troubled person you are always available to talk.

I get your fear of losing someone but in the very least it doesnt have to be because you didnt communicate your love and always there to talk if needed.

The fact that we are seemingly powerless over a situation is crippling but I feel important not to lose sight of other family members who are impacted.

I know you want a silver bullet solution but to accept that loving and being there for this person to talk maybe all you can do for now.

My mother died with me believing she did not like me but that doesnt have to happen to you or anybody

[white knight]

Hi Sparkling

I want to use this post here to focus on over reaction on her part and use an example.

Two years ago my daughter had an art exhibition following years of rehabilitation and mental health trauma. She invited everyone to attend it and it went for 3 months at a council venue. Of those most said they would attend but disappointedly 40 or so didnt and no feedback as to why and worse, they said they would. So she place a post on social media tactfully saying she was disappointed.

My sister and her two adult daughters replied to that post and claimed "we were attacked" and this went on for quite some time and I had decided to stay out of it. However a few weeks passed and my sister rang me wanted me to side with her and her daughters over the matter but alas, I tried everything to stay out of it and told them that. Nothing worked and they were intent that our relationship would be tested if I didnt take their side. The result was I lost my sister and two nieces out of it but I was prepared for that because I'd rather not have dealings with toxic people considering my own mental fragility.

That is an example of toxicity, when people have huge expectations and when you dont meet them you are categorised as insufficient to meet their unrealistic needs. 

So with these boundaries and new ones you might consider introducing you might realise more how these difficult people are willing to sacrifice their relations for the sake of stubbornly sticking to their narrative. I like to think we all have choices in life even toxic people. My sister had a choice of listening to me (or not) in my pleas not to get me involved for example. They also had the choice of not taking my daughters post as "an attack". I had pointed out that of the 40 or so people the post was addressing only those 3 individual (as a team) took it as an "attack". The rest mostly apologised. 

So these abrasive people will most likely lose friends and family easily just because of their attitude. It isnt your fault what attiude these people choose.

As I said "we all have choices in life" Those that are flexible, listen intently and "read the room" are the ones more likely to not have such conflicts and when they do they find common ground as you do and move on happily.

TonyWK