Staying/Getting/Doing Well – Moving goalposts or fixed target?

[Paw Prints]

Hi, this is my first post, though I have been reading the forums for some weeks. I’m probably expressing myself badly when I say that I have found reading about other people’s journeys reassuring. Finding a community of people who “get it” even when they have a wide variety of experiences and lives lived is not something I thought I would ever find.

Though people talk about getting well & there is a section Staying Well, I’m curious as to what this actually means to other people and how they manage their expectations. I noticed some people refer to being well as ‘being like themselves before they got ill’, whilst others don’t express an exact aim.

My idea of being well has changed over the years. I was first diagnosed as an 8 year old child back in the late sixties. The doctors told Mum that the voices in my head & the sudden crying bouts were because I suffered from ‘nerves’ & I was given meds to calm me. Of course such things were not discussed back then & I was told not to talk about it to anyone, not my school friends nor siblings, just Mum. For decades after my idea of being well simply meant being able to hide my illness from others.

A number of events in my life caused my illness to worsen, until some years ago I became so ill I needed to be hospitalised for my own safety. This lead to my current diagnosis of Major Depression, Anxiety & PTSD. I’m no longer in that dark place, but each day is still a battle (though I can now believe in a future). For now only my siblings & one friend know about my illness, though some things they still don’t know.
So, what does ‘being well’ mean to me, it is ever moving goalposts. If you had asked me 5 years ago would I be as well as I am now I would have thought it impossible as I couldn’t envision a future. If you had asked me last week (during one of my down periods) I would have said my progress was all an illusion & I was fooling myself that things can get better.
For now my idea of being well is being able to believe that things can change for the better, that I will one day be able to manage the everyday things like housework, caring for myself & caring for my dog & maybe, just maybe I will even be able to enjoy myself.

Paw Prints
**I took the tip to give myself time to write my post by writing on a word doc & then paste it.

[Hanna3]

Hi ER and Paws

ER that was interesting about how you were able to sit with your Mum after she died.  My mother died of cancer when I was 18, she'd been sick since I was 16.  She left instructions that nobody in the family was to see her after she passed on, I was not told of the burial arrangments or where her ashes were to be scattered, that was all kept secret my our father.  I found it enormously difficult to cope with her death due to all this, and she had been a vollatile and often violent mother.  I truly agree with you and Paws about the importance of rituals.

I have been thinking today of how not happy I am in this unit.  I was talking to a friend where I used to live recently and I was saying how I don't like that when I sit in the living room I look directly into the bedroom - it's more like a studio this unit, very small.  I told my friend it made me feel like I was in an aged care home - just a few steps from the sofa to the bed!  It made him laugh and me too, but honestly it's actually true.

I was thinking even more today about how tired I am all the time here - mostly due  to the humid climate but add on stressful neighbours,losing my dog, etc.  I am also convinced the units have a role to play.  I remember reading about a complex in Scandinavia somewhere for over 50s and they are aware that if you are surrounded by things that remind you of your youth you feel and act younger - so they built the complex in the colours and fabrics and furnitures of the 1960s and 70s, which was the era these folk would have been young people in.

They noticed how the residents said they felt younger and were more active and positive.  Well I'm convinced this is true.  Where I lived in a house before I was not feeling conscious of my age - here I am conscious of it constantly.  I'm sure it's not just the climate but the surroundings - and when I explained to my friend that I felt like I was in an aged care home, I was spot on!  That is how I feel here.  I think that's really interesting and makes me more determined to transfer out - the fifteen million or so forms I have to complete are almost done.  It is interesting though - they aged home in Scandinavia also played the music of that era.  

I just checked the website of a friend of a friend - I never met her but she moved into a similar complex a while back and hated it - said it made her old.  She moved into a more modern unit of mixed ages in inner Melbourne and said she felt instantly more alive and active.  Isn't that interesting?

Well it is overcast and still muggy at the same time as being chilly here.  I missed all the ANZAC day stuff unfortunately, but I took myself for a morning walk at least.

ER are you still getting rain over there?  It sounded lovely.  Paws, any news of your sister?

Hugs to everyone 

[Eagle Ray]

Hello dear Hanna and Paws,

Hanna, that would have been so hard your Mum dying when you were 18. It is a difficult age to lose a parent when you are still so young and just on the cusp of adulthood yourself. It would have also made it hard not having those rituals after she passed that would have helped process the experience. My mother could also be volatile but could also be kind and considerate at times. She could be very cruel to me but it all stemmed from her splitting off from herself because of her own trauma. I am still processing both her life and death now in a way. I remember you mentioned a book about dealing with a challenging mother. I was wondering if you could mention the name of it again? I feel it is possible to actually keep processing and healing these things, even finding rituals years later that allow us to more fully grieve losses from the past.

It sounds like you would very much like to move from your unit. I agree that our surroundings have an impact on how we feel. It is important to find a space that you feel relaxed and at home in. I like my lounge room because there is a sloped ceiling with exposed beams and it gives a feeling of space. There's a wood fire too which I only occasionally use in winter, but even if not often used it adds to a kind of homely feel. It would be lovely for you to be able to be transferred somewhere that really feels right for you. Would you still be in the same area/town or move further afield? I'm not sure how it works with transfers and whether you can request any preferences.

Paws, I finished the Peter Levine book today and the chapter entitled Living My Dying was actually quite brief. It was also the last chapter which I didn't realise because there are various sections that follow that are not chapters but other bits of information. Also being an e-book it can be easy to not realise you are close to the end. I'm not sure there was anything that jumped out at me to share from the chapter that would be helpful for your sister. But at the very end he says, "May you tell your story" inviting the reader to explore and tell of the journey of their own life. Perhaps a meaningful thing for your sister may be remembering and reminiscing, a kind of integration of her life's experiences, in whatever form that may take for her and she is able to do.

I have been reflecting about how we all try to make sense of our own lives. When I look back I can see some of the hardest experiences have also been the greatest teachers. It is no fun at all going through them but having to find the resilience to get through enriches you somehow and deepens you as a human being. I got the sense with Peter Levine he is still learning all the time and he is still working to heal any last bits of trauma leftover from what was a very difficult childhood. He has been gradually healing all the different parts of his early life literally right from the beginning. I remember once hearing the late Archie Roach, such a beautiful person, say, "All we want to do is heal our circle". He was speaking about the Stolen Generation that he was a part of. He said there was no bitterness or anything like that, just a need to come full circle, kind of go back to source and heal all the parts damaged along the way on life's journey.

Hanna, no there has been no more rain here since the little bit the other day, but it is cooling down, most noticeably at night. I walked by the river this afternoon and saw the white-faced heron I keep seeing there. She or he (don't know which) hopped onto a rock in the water quite near me and it would have made the most beautiful photo in the golden, late afternoon light. I didn't have my camera though. I'll probably take it down in the next few days. This heron is not too flighty at all and I'm getting a feeling of getting to know her and maybe she is getting to know me (I'll just call her a she as she seems like one). I also saw the cutest little girl in a yellow Wiggles jumpsuit who looked like she has only just started walking.

Sending you both warm hugs,

ER

[Hanna3]

Hi ER and Paws and all

The book was the best by far I have read about mothers like mine ER - I had it out from the library for the maximum number of extensions, ie. about 3 months!  It is:

"Mothers Who Can't Love:  A Healing Guide for Daughters"

It is written by Susan Forward.   I'm sorry I don't know the publisher.

I had the hard copy but I notice there is a cheaper paperback version out now, although I often find those difficult to read with small print and no paragraphs.  I don't know if you have a library nearby that you can ask to purchase a copy - it's probably available in the new paperback format on Ebay or Booktopia.

My mother was a volatile, histrionic woman, traumatized by her alcoholic father who returned like that from WW1, and she was jealous of everything I did and any attention I got at all from my father.  This was the first book I've found that honestly discussed mothers like this and mothers who abuse their daughters.

I read this book slowly and had to think about each part of it. 

I've been talking as well to an old neighbour who grew up next door to my family - she didn't know my mother well but is an experienced kind mother and has been talking over the book with me and giving her opinion on what my Mum should or shouldn't have done - what was abuse as sometimes i'm not even sure.

I will write more later but I honestly found this book hugely helpful for me and I like that she directs it to daughters especially.  I hope you can get hold of a copy ER!

I have to go out to a chemist and get my glasses fixed at the optimetrist but I will write more later on today!

[Hanna3]

Hi ER and Paws and everyone

Sorry I am late replying again I got thoroughly caught up this morning - and then just had a long phone call, phew.  Finally I am back here!  Your house sounds lovely ER, I would love the fire and the open beams.  My unit is too enclosed for my liking and I can't see any distance - and I'm not really good at having very close neighbours, I do like my privacy...  The birdlife where you are sounds beautiful and so calming the way you describe it.  It sounds like a truly lovely place to live.  How long have you been there?

I would move back to a colder dryer climate, I don't like the humidity here.  Back in the Central West there are some villas available that I will try for - I am in community housing so I have to transfer which takes time.  I also like that things like shops, medical care etc is all close by and central, here I have a long drive to the next big town.  I'm also not really much of a beach person - inland suits me fine as long as there's a river somewhere.

That Peter Levine is on Utube I noticed - he does sound a bit like The Body Keeps the Score but seems a very kind person.  I did check but the library here doesn't have any books by him, I could request a purchase though.

Today has turned quite windy and chilly at long last - although I think the saying is that it gets cold after ANZAC day.  I didn't get to the service here but I could see there was a big crowd. 

I did read a book a while back and I can't remember the name of it which is annoying - but the writer was saying that life is not about being happy, it's about being taught things about your life.  He said some people keep complaining that things in life are going wrong - he said that's not the right way to look at it - life is about learning the lessons you need to learn.  If something keeps going wrong, it's a sign you haven't learnt that lesson yet.   I thought that was an interesting way to look at life.  I often think that we shouldn't be searching for happiness so much as contentment.

I have thought that by realizing I don't like this place, I have worked out what is essential for me to be content in a place - and I emphasize content not happy.  And I know I need a different climate and a different space to live in and that units with close neighbours do not suit me.  I have learnt I need my privacy very badly. I also listened far too much to a friend's bad advice when I should have trusted in my own judgment - and this is one of the main things i have learnt from the move here.  I have learnt to trust my own judgment much more and listen to other people's opinions carefully, but also be careful not to be influenced by them against my own judgment.

ER my mother was insecure I think and jealous if my father ever admired anything I did.  She stopped me from having art lessons which I loved, stopped me from having singing lessons, wouldn't attend my high school graduation etc etc.  At the time I thought it was disapproval of me but now I realize it was her own insecurity.  I have had some wise counsel from my 95 year old friend and she has helped enormously. I'd be interested in what sort of things your mother did or didn't do that affected you?

There is also a thread on Mumsnet - which is a public forum you just Google it, it's mainly a British forum - called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers.  I have found people's memories and thoughts on that pretty interesting and helpful.  You can just Google it, I think they have more than one thread discussing their experiences of their mothers.

I understand my mother had a lot of trauma in her youth but I cannot understand why she could not control the jealousy and abuse of her children - both my brothers are damaged badly as well.  There is a great Australian book called I for Isobel by a writer named Amy Witting (who was actually an English teacher at my old High School but before my time).  It's about a daugher suffering from the hatred of her by her mother and it should be readily available as it's an Australian book - written some time ago but when I read it I recognized my mother.

[Hanna3]

ER and Paws - I just finished the last bit I wrote abruptly because I thought I was over the word limit.  ER I would be happy to hear about your mother if you would like to talk about her and I hope you can find a copy of the book I mentioned, I found it a real help and I am not a fan of self-help books generally.

Paws I hope you are managing OK there in a stressful time for you and your family.  Sending warmest wishes your way and thinking of you.  I hope you are taking care of yourself - we need to be gentle with ourselves in stressful times.  Do let us know how you are travelling.  Hugs.

[Hanna3]

Hi ER -

I think for me at this stage of life - working out why my mother (and father) had behaved the way they did is something I have wanted to understand - as best I can- and put behind me at last.  My 95 year old friend said she wondered why I bothered about it at this age - but she hasn't lived through this kind of family environment that affects your whole life, kind and wise otherwise though she is.

I always thought my mother's rages and dissatisfaction with me no matter how well I did at school, her constant criticisms of me and refusal to ever tell me anything good about myself - was because I was wrong somehow.  I can now look back and realize what a poor self image she had, how threatened she was when her husband - my father - admired anything I did - how jealous she was of any opportunities I had.  I had to look good and behave nicely because she was very concerned with appearances but behind that facade our home life was incredibly stressful and full of anger.

For me understanding this gives me the understanding I didn't have when young, and it helps me move on.  I don't know if you are going through something similar or how different it is.  I never had the chance to talk to my mother about it as she died when I was too young.

For me understanding it is liberating really.  My mother used to raid my bedroom and go through all my personal items like my suitcase, cuboard, drawers - I never knew what she was looking for - but I have a friend who went nursing and her roomate, a young woman, had a mother who did the same thing and the mother was jealous of the daughter (the nurse) and even used to flirt with her daughter's boyfriend.  

So I find it a relief to understand at least some of it - and move on.  I'd be honestly interested to hear your story if you wish to share it, I don't know how similar or different it is.

I am so enjoying this chilly evening, finally we have the warm throw rugs out and it's properly winter-ish!  I have heard there are floods somewhere in WA but I don't know where.

Anyway, excuse my ramblings aobut my family but if you read some of the Mumsnet stuff we all seem to suffer something more or less similar.  

Best wishes!

[Eagle Ray]

Hi Hanna and Paws,

Hanna, I found the book you mentioned is not in my local library according to their catalogue but I found it's in the state library system, so I should be able to order it on inter-library loan. I imagine you could do the same with Peter Levine books which may be available at other libraries in your state. He is a kind and gentle man and has done a lot of meaningful work with children who he is understanding of because of his own childhood trauma.

I'm not sure whether to go into too much detail here about my own experiences with my mother. I'm just aware of this being Paws' thread and not wanting to write about things that could be upsetting. I know Paws is already going through a vulnerable time. I'm wondering about the possibility of starting another thread on the topic, perhaps in the Family and Relationships thread or Grief and Loss thread? For me it is still very much a grief issue. My mother died just over 3 years ago and it is still the thing that impacts me the most on a daily basis because of the circumstances prior to her death and coming to terms with the painful life she led. I just don't want to talk too much about painful things on Paws' thread.

I'm glad you are enjoying the chilly evening! There is a lovely moon outside I was just looking at. I've seen it when low on the horizon the last few nights when it looks yellow. I wasn't aware of floods here. Maybe up north somewhere? It's certainly still pretty dry here. The government has just put out a relief package for farmers who are really struggling in the drought. It is apparently the driest conditions on record. I'm thinking carefully about my water use. The guy who mows the front lawns in this strata complex sometimes gets a bit grumpy if he thinks we aren't keeping our lawns green enough, but I have a feeling he might be a bit more understanding at the moment given the conditions.

Today I finally submitted my DSP application. It has been an incredibly stressful and exhausting process. The next step will be having to do a one hour job capacity assessment interview. Right now I feel completely wrung out after many hours today doing the online part of the application. But at least it is in now.

I hope you are going ok Paws and continuing to get weather you like. I imagine it is getting chilly where you are now. The temperatures you mention are often colder than anything I am used to in the places I've lived. I hope you are keeping nice and cosy if it is cold. Hanna, you sound like you are nice and organised with the throw rugs. Any sign of kitty going to his new bed yet?

Take care and keep cosy,

ER

[Hanna3]

Hi ER

Yes you should be able to organize an inter-library loan - I did that once before so I'm sure they will do that for you, libraries are really useful places!

I'm glad you got the DSP application done with, now it's fingers crossed I guess while you wait.  

That's fine about starting another thread, if you can let me know the name of it I can come by.  I've pretty much sorted my family out I think but it was something I needed to do.  Happy to talk with you just let me know.

A sunny clear day here - I was enjoying the rain and grey skies!  Anyway yes, let me know when you've put up another thread no worries!

[Eagle Ray]

Hi dear Hanna and Paws,

I will probably start a new thread in a few days. I'm feeling quite raw and vulnerable which I think is at least partly from having to push myself through the DSP process. I've had to open up to various people about emotionally sensitive material from my life and also put that into official documentation. Having kept anything I'm struggling with to myself most of my life it feels very exposing having to admit my level of vulnerability. I'm used to presenting myself as fine, and the whole process has involved me having to say I'm not fine which has stripped back my defences. I realise that many people have early trauma related to their parents, so it could be beneficial for others to open up a discussion around that. So I'll have a think about doing another thread. I just didn't want to go into detail about my personal life and stressful things on Paws' thread. I don't know how you feel Paws, but I want to support you here and for this to be your safe space. I know your original topic was around the shifting goal posts and how our sense of progress can change over time.

Hanna, I watched another Rocky Kanaka video today. He was with a lovely German Shepherd. I find it healing every time I watch one of his videos. It is like I start to relax as I see the dog start to relax and trust with him. One thing I regret about where I live now is I am far from any dog shelter. The nearest one I'm aware of is an hour and a half drive away. I feel like I would like to volunteer at such a place and support the dogs. When I lived in the city I went to one of the major dog rescue places a couple of times and went around and said hello to every single dog there. I just wanted them to feel someone cared about them. I would get down at their level and have a little chat with them, if they were ok with it. So I relate to the Rocky Kanaka videos. Earlier today I saw a lovely Red Heeler in town. She was rolling around on her back on the grass and was very enthusiastic and happy with her owners.

There has actually been some forecast of potential rain late this afternoon and this evening. There was just the tiniest bit of it earlier around the time I brought my washing in but it's cleared up again at the moment. I have been so used to seeing zero chance of rain on the forecast I didn't even look at it before doing my washing. At the moment there is an 80% chance of rain tomorrow about 0-2mm. The consensus seems to be no significant rain will fall until June. Hopefully Hanna your rain and grey skies will come back soon! 

I hope you have both had a restful Saturday and that you have a lovely evening. I think I will watch some TV this evening.

Hugs,

ER

[Paw Prints]

Hello Hanna & ER,

Hanna you really are having a awful run with the places (I won't call them homes) you have moved to & from over the last few years.  Do you have any idea when you might hear about the villa?

ER I'm glad you have finally finished the DSP application.  Be gentle with yourself dealing with all the issues & emotions it has churned up.  

I love that you visited every dog at the shelter that is a lovely thing to do. 

Sorry this is so short, I'm a bit up & down today

Hugs

Paws