Religion and Depression, Anxiety, &c.

[Damien]

Hello.

I have noticed on a few of beyondblue's Facebook posts in particular that there are occasional Bible verses posted as if the answer to mental illness is found in religion.  In other places I have noticed that people who have a religious faith have had their "reason not to feel hopelessness" abused by people who don't like religion at all.

I am interested in this stream and wonder what people's experiences of this sort of thing is.  Does Christianity (and other religions) offer anything positive to the way we feel as Anxious and Depressed people, (and I experience GAD, Depression, and Social Phobia), or is religion just another reason for people to bully us when we're down because we "don't have enough faith" or we're "sick because we're superstitious"?

Please don't Bible-bash or bully me with your atheism.  If however you have been Bible-bashed or put down for being religious I'd love to know how this has affected you as a person with Depression or Anxiety.

Thanks,

Damien.

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Thanks Damien,

Maybe people save religion for the last minute.  And then are not sure what to pick.  It's almost like we have become fine tuned to wait for the special, the 2 for 1 deal, etc.  But, as you well know, the Trinity (or 3 in 1) of Christianity seems a good bargain.   Maybe there is a similarity between depression/mental illness and religion in that the experience of each seems to lead to acceptance of being or acceptance of faith.

My wife's church just got rid of all the musicians covering 5 services.   A new minister favours the workings of Taylor Swift so has elected to form a small band to do nothing but Taylor Swift type religious feel songs and has even made a list of 20 suitable hymns/songs for that purpose.    I don't know much about church politics but it seemed unfair to dispose of genuine voluntary talent without a thanks or dinner.  Imposing modern songs to include the modern generation could be seen as prejudicial.   It's a church that had many, many great musicians help out (who work with pro bands, the Symphony, Opera, experienced Youth group types).  Now they are left with a dingy band of the worst musos.  Who MUST reh Wed nights else be fired !   Where is the compassion for that scenario ??????

Adios, David.

[geoff]

dear Damien, no.2 photo man, I had been thinking of where you have been, as there have a few religious comments that have been posted lately.

I was hoping that you weren't going through a difficult time.

I am interested in mental illness centuries ago, and whether there is any documentation that is available, however I'm sure that if someone back in say King Henry VIII's time had depression there they must have been considered to be possessed by the devil, and therefore 'off with their head'. Geoff.

[Damien]

Hello Geoff,

Yeah, I have been sick for a bit, but mostly I've been helping the conversations get underway with the blueVoices channel on here so that's where I've been.  I also admit to being "scared off" by that know-it-all guy a few months back, the one who'd had all that experience and knowledge yet didn't know how to talk with people.  That made me mad, so I just stayed away.

I'm taking a few months to really look at the topics of mental health and faith/spirituality.  I'm still a student and have finished my studies for the year, (super organised, Uni goes for another six weeks but I'm ahead of it),and so around loking for a summer job, having Christmas, and generally being Australian in summer I thought I'd keep my brain active (and not bored) by doing some personal study.

Wow, what a long sentence!!

Anyway, the post on my blog (above) is an assignment I completed earlier this year in my pastoral care unit and I thought I might go back over it and some of my resources in an engaged yet relaxed way.  Whether it becomes the definitive Theology of Serotonin I doubt it, but it will be interesting for me as both a pastor and a patient.

If you can, please take a look at the blueVoice thread, otherwise I'm thinking it's safe for me to come back and post along this thread once more.

🙂

[Lillybell]

Hello, my experience is that religion can have both a positive and negative effect on depression. I have known Christians to offer simplistic solutions such as having more faith. I also know of a case of a lady with severe bi-polar disorder who was prayed over and told the demons had now left her body! I've also known atheists who see religion as a crutch while they're sitting there smoking marijuana and sucking on a stubbie! Some of the new age movement and advice it offers can also be simplistic and dangerous. I've read things where they've advised people to rid their life of negative people. Considering that depressed people can be negative, it is the last thing they need to hear.

It has been interesting for me to read the posts about marriage separation on other threads, because it provides an analogy to how I'm feeling at the moment. I became a Christian in my early teens. I married a fundamentalist Christian and we've had 6 children together. I've always been prone to depression and can remember it even as a child, though I didn't realise then what it was. I've had a series of tragedies in my life. The worst one occurred a few years ago. This completely shook my belief in God to the point that my faith has disappeared. The reason I mentioned the analogy to marriage is because in one sense this is what it feels like to lose faith in God. It is like losing your life partner. Many of the things people have said that they feel is what I've experienced. I feel too as if I've lost my anchor.  I've accepted this new way of being in the world but it is difficult when I'm surrounded by Christians and feel as if I don't belong. I am still married but feel a loneliness in the marriage because we're both on such different paths. My children are Christians and I've never shared my struggles with them because I don't want to upset their equilibrium. Sundays are the worst for me because it is the day that the family all go off to church together and I'm left alone. I can't phone a friend because they're at church too! What I still do have though is hope. I don't have a permanent solution but I remain hopeful of finding my way through all of this. I know that some days are worse than others. I've also been working my way through an online degree and that has been one of the best things I could have done. It helps to channel my mind into something more positive and helps to control the obsessive thoughts that I often feel I'm a prisoner to. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share this.

[Damien]

Hello Lilllybell,

Thanks for joining the conversation.

I'd not thought of the marriage parallel before, since I'm not married and my faith is strong, but yes I imagine I would be talking in terms of grief at loss of a life-partner.  I suppose it's hard to grieve with your Christian friends when all they want to do is reconvert you, if that's indeed the case for you.  I imagine that might be a common approach for some.

I'm pleased you still have hope, that I think is the greatest offering religion provides in mental health situations, especially for the reasons you have offered about having a means to focus on positive things.

Bless,

Damien.

[geoff]

dear Damien and Lillybell, although I am an atheist I am enjoying this thread.

Damien I liked your humour when you say ' Theology of Serotonin', why not, it's a good description that maybe people who don't have depression can associate with.

You must be super intelligent to finish 6 weeks ahead of time.

Can you study for next year, so again you will ahead of time?

I'm not sure as to whether money is an issue here, well it always is, but the soup kitchens are a great way to interact with people, not that I know, but my ex helped out for awhile, and now living with a chap from there as well, but it's a good way to listen to the poor or under privileged and I'm sure that they would love to have someone who will listen to them.

Are you interested in mental health centuries ago, and I'm not sure about the documentation available, but my pet love is the old English history.

Lillybell I'm pretty much the same as you, as I lost my belief when I was a young kid when somebody died every year, and no matter how hard I prayed it didn't stop the deaths, sorry Damien just saying, so now I have been an atheist for a long time.

My ex is catholic and goes to church every week, while our sons are also catholic but don't go to church, and it doesn't bother me one bit what religion they are, as long as they are happy, but no one can be happy 24/7. Geoff.

[The_Real_David_Charles]

Dear Damien,

I was pretty close suicide with all that justification that you have alluded to - "I also admit to being "scared off" by that know it all a few months ago, the one that had all that knowledge and experience yet didn't know how to talk to people". Being "scared off" a site that is set up for scared/anxious people !

To demonstrate the depth of fear I experienced from the same responder I had an anxious moment only last month when another responder criticised me for asking "Has Kate (CEO BB) had experience of mental health ?".  At the time it was taken the wrong way by each party.  Instantly, I was trying to identify that this might be the same person you are referring to but, of course, BB edited out my vent.  I was back to dealing with the "That made me mad, so I just stayed away" part of my brain too.

In the light of this more general reference might I add that as a parent who has really struggled with bipolar and bringing up my own 3 kids I found it almost impossible to accept parental advice for this same direct yet unempathetic responder.     The world of the single person vs the world of the parent is so different and I would not presume to tell a single person how to run their lives.

This will probably be edited out but at the risk of alienating the moderators yet also at the benefit of explaining this slightly raw situation to other responders I was allowed a thread called "Dear Facetious" for any interested.  Although his user name changed a few times after that the manner was always a bit too arguementative in my view.    And I enjoy a long post or good discussion !  I would go to bed thinking "What am I wasting my time responding on BB for ?".

I think this is the key to abuse.   You can be in an abusive relationship and think things will improve or at least be put on hold.  But when you see someone else's abusive relationship unfold in Public it's a real eye opener and you may want to even step in.   When you're nasty to someone they generally come back with more nastyness.  When you love and accept someone (back to the religious thread, boy, only took me 5 paragraphs !  Lol)   then, as Damien will surely confirm, life can be meeted out with equal measure and the ills of the world can suffer no more.

"Harmony Day" - just passed - was set up for similar reasons.   We have enough turmoil, anger and rage in the world already so why not be mature and more loving of each other in our local communities ?  Maybe the acceptance of religion is not about recognising what a great prophet or mantra there is but more about whether we will allow ourselves this fleeting desire to be loved and be worthy of love.   

Adios, David.

PS  I've cut down to 1 post a day so you won the Meat Raffle today Damien !  Otherwise I'll escalate to mania by NYE and stuff up my own band's work, which would be a shame, as we've just signed to to do that fortnight's filming in NY with Sesame Street for next April 2014.    16 years preparation for a 3 min clip.  Sounds like sex !  Lol.   You always sound married to me although I know it's not the case.  Must be the all knowing bushy eyebrows.   "Remember to pick up the milk".  Yep, I got it.  It seems strange to equate Sesame Street with an answer to prayer but my partner assures me God has had a part in this saga.  Just ask Elmo.

[Damien]

I've been thinking...

EXPERIENCES OF DEPRESSION AND ANXIETY AMONG RELIGIOUS PARTICIPANTS

1. Why and how religion matters to religious people compared with the secularising moves and secular-normative understandings of Australian culture: Comments such as:  “prayer doesn’t work anyway”; “if church bothers you so much why won’t you just leave church?”; “churches are abusive and hypocritical anyway”; “you know you’d be okay if you weren’t so superstitious”.

2. The stigma of mental illness in people with strong faith and beliefs: spectrum of experiences with religious leaders and participants.  Comments such as: “if you had faith you’d be okay”; “why do you need more than God?”; “Christians shouldn’t need drugs”; ”Christians shouldn’t need psychology or secular counselling”; “you have demons”; “this is a spiritual problem”; “you have too much sin”; “this is God’sjudgement”.

3.  The stigma of being an identified religious person in the wider community or a target of hate may be related to anxiety.  Comments such as: “you must be a terrorist”; “you must be a paedophile”; ‘your ideas are unscientific and dangerous to children”.

4.  The stigma of Religion being [linked with] the cause of anxiety.  Comments such as “you just want someone to blame”; “you’re just looking for money and a cause to sue the Church”; “if you’re so angry why don’t you just leave?”

5. Fear of excommunication/disfellowshiping: the ever present threat of discrimination and isolation from the community of belief may be related to anxiety.

6. Added stigma to any of the above if the religious person is a religious leader.  Comments such as: “but you’re the minister!”  Additional anxiety of religious organisation being the employer and landlord. 

[Damien]

Hello Geoff,

Sadly I am unable to get too far ahead of myself as my studies are semester based, and next semester should involve the first of my practical sessions where I will be out in the community with a mentor and reporting structure to monitor my progress as a student.  I have however registered for an intensive course so an entire subject will be "out of the way" in February, and the other unit I am doing 1:1 by Skype with the lecturer as a special favour.  I'm actually looking forward to having some mental health study time. 🙂

I'm not super intelligent, just super organised.  😄

I'm interested in metal health for as far back as religion goes, and if you look at my essay (blog linked) you'll see references to the soul care offered by monasteries back in the day.  There are of course historical events directed by syphilitic kings, and kings with porphyria (George III), and the Bible also speaks of specifically cursed kings who went mad too.  As a Christian I do believe in the spiritual realm and the reality of demons and spirits, but I certainly don't believe that's the whole answer to mental illness.

You never have to apologise for saying how you lost your faith Geoff, or that you don't have one.  I understand why people lose confidence in God's goodness or even in God's existence, I have had opportunity to doubt these things but I haven't left entirely.  Why?  Grace?  Maybe.  Stubborness more like. 😉

It's always good to talk with you. 🙂

[Damien]

Wow, so pleased to have won the meat tray David!!  I always worry about Elmo, not having eyelids and all...

Some fights are not worth getting in to.  I recall the know-it-all scary guy making some comment along the lines of how he became more and more impressed by me with every post of mine he read.  I really didn't want to say that the trajectory was in the opposite direction for me, so I said nothing.  But as I say, I've been positing over at blueVoices a bit and I've also been doing work with BB in Melbourne and some public speaking advocacy here .  (I live in remote/rural South Australia.).  I am sad that your equilibrium was thrown out of kilter by the comments received, and yes I am not one for coming to a therapeutic place and getting entwined into arguments...this is part of my concern with Church as you indiicated in your comments on Taylorswiftianity. 😉

I'm here to share in the teaching and learning.  My background is in education (I think you know this) I have been a teacher and a school chaplain.  I enjoy speaking with others about my life in the ways in which that might be helpful to them, and listening (mainly in silence) to the stories of others.  I learned something new from Lillybell in her equation of losing her God with losing her marriage, although happily for her only the first has occurred.  I thought that was a great analogy and there was nothing Facetious about that. 😉