Insight and faith

[white knight]

We all try, but how many of us with a mental issue can accurately gauge if we are well or the seriousness of our problem.? After all, our problems affect others doesn't it?

Are our partners/carers the better judge of our wellness?

I'd suggest they are with a proviso (a little on that later).

Let's take moods from the up and down bipolar disorder. When I am in a bad mood I feel angry at something or someone. To another person its a bad mood, an extreme of what would be classed as normal reaction. To me its none if that. Its something I'm angry about. Who is effected by the mood? My partner not I. In all honesty I don't feel my moods are extreme but too many people give me feedback so I can't deny it. But you can understand the struggle within. To believe others about your behaviour you think isn't extreme. Its a tough call. And I constantly question my own actions and words.

One exception with this blind faith of others account, is the alterior motive. I had a partner once that used my moods as a lever to justify her side of arguments. It seemed that possessing bad moods meant you forgave any right to disagree with opinion. Be aware if this for although extreme behaviour is all part if the bipolar package, you should not resign your rights to opinion.

We that need to jump daily hurdles in our quest for stability and happiness and crave for empathy from others should realise that our partners and carers need empathy also. It must be so hard for them to keep convincing us we are not being tolerable, easy going or fun. All the while we go about our life with no thought of how difficult it is for them.

Insight into our own Illness is not a given. Some don't have it. If you have insight you are one if the lucky ones. If you have empathy towards others for the tolerance they need to constantly judge our mood then you have extended yourself to be considerate and have placed much faith in your carer.

And that is a good goal, for you are returning effort. You are in fact a team.

It is not likely we can step in others shoes and see us from their position....hence the level of faith needed.

In most cases carers are better observers of our behaviour.

What do you think?

Tony WK

[Starwolf]

Thank you Tony for initiating this thread. It does provide food for thought...

I agree that it all depends who gives the feedback on our moods and behaviour. If those at the receiving end are sensitive types and really hurt, they're likely to over react themselves. How objective can we really be regarding someone we are emotionally involved with ? Strong emotions cloud judgment. Objectivity requires distance to fully come into play.

It is true that our loved ones will be necessarily less involved than ourselves. After all, if we are stark, raving mad, we are at the epicenter of the emotional commotion. But if we are mad AT someone, they will then be dragged into it too. To what point varies, depending on the person's personality and stability.

If the same opinion comes from different quarters, it will need our attention. If insight comes from one person whose stability and objectivity we trust, it must be taken into consideration too.

In all situations, I think the wise thing to do is to wait until everyone has calmed down before debating the issue. Letting hindsight kick in is a good idea. How long this may take is also an individual matter.

[white knight]

Hi Starwolf

Indeed sensitivity is a road block for us to overcome. Placing your pride on hold to pass over all judgement to your partner is a big ask. I've found that hard to do. This is the motivation for this thread.

essentially it means giving up some control to become a patient.

Your question about how objective a close person can be, I never thought of that. Persons further detached might have a clear view if any extreme behaviour of say sensitivity or mood.

Thanks fir your thoughts.

Tony WK

[Starwolf]

I admire your proactive attitude. If you trust someone enough to be your carer/partner, you will also value their insight. But YOUR side of the story is just as important as you are both affected by the moods. They're necessarily perceived differently by both parties.

Stability is a difficult condition to achieve, much harder to maintain if extreme emotions are involved. There's a difference between being a patient and being patient. Patience on both sides helps. Patience with yourself, (acceptance of the bipolar condition) and patience from the carer, (acceptance that they are dealing with someone affected by a mental condition). This makes it easier to step back until extreme moods and emotions release their hold before considering/discussing them. This is what I mean by distancing, waiting till emotions subside to pass clearer judgment...a bit later.

Regarding this as team work is a great attitude, a credit to you. It shows your big heart and insight.

This challenging side of mental conditions makes us work harder than most at being a better person. That's why I consider those who thrive towards managing the situation as heroes...may they be sufferer's or carers.

[V17]

I've been trying to focus on staying well, hence me scouting these particular threads and came across your title Tony and have found both yours and Starwolf's responses are a good affirmation towards taking an objective approach.

I have not had a great deal of positive experience with a carer or partner when I am struggling. I push people away - I feel threatened when people get close to me.
Since my dark night of the soul, I've discovered through the help of my psych, that I have not fully dealt with the attempt a stranger made on my life, a physical assault (again by a complete stranger) and recently..the continual second guessing of a man who supposedly loved me. I am not sure I could not trust a person to tell me the gauge of my moods. I have my 16 year old son living with me and we are both trying to make sense of what has recently happened. Having said that though, I'm learning that healthy boundaries have had a huge impact on how I deal with the people close to me. I've allowed others to govern how I feel. This [ healthy boundaries] and taking 'time-out' allows me time to reflect on how I react. Personally, I have found that people who are not close to me have been the clearer to discern my moods. Maybe it is because I show more self restraint? Maybe it is because of humility? I'm a work in progress and don't have the answers..yet.
V.

[white knight]

Hi V

My psychiatrist once said to my wife " you'll have difficulty deciding what parts of his behaviour is mental issues and what is personality. If you think its mental and its personality then he'll pay a price for being himself".

He was right. We are people first and with personalities second. We deserve the right everyone has to opinion and judgement that everyone else has.

Failure to receive common respect to have an opinion by those without mental or emotional issues is as hurtful as denying people of coloured skin a seat at the front of a bus.

Its that serious because we are being denied our freedom of having a view. To be told you must be depressed because you are angry at being spoken to in a certain tone is to take away your right to feel what you feel and added to that...you should feel what someone else is telling you how to feel.

This is likely the major problem we have in placing faith in a carer.

Btw, great you are using past threads for research. Its one of my hopes that threads assist others for reference.

Tony WK

[Starwolf]

Hi V,

Each and everyone of us is a " work in progress". Is there anyone who hasn't been wounded and isn't in the process of healing ?

The mind is the conditioned response to whatever happened in our past. You are right, ex painful relationships often cause us not to let others get close for fear of getting hurt again. On the other hand, avoiding closeness and hiding in isolation only reinforce self-effacing inclinations and confirm the false belief that we are unlovable. Balance is an elusive state. Being cautious is wise but systematically pushing others away is not.

The fact that you can discuss what happened with your 16 years old is a credit to you both. You are lucky to have each other.

Well done also for working on setting boundaries. Your life wasn't given to you for being lived by proxy. We all need to stand up to trespassers on our territory and demand that they should leave our "ill-managed" life to us. Whatever the nature of the relationship, one person shouldn't be allowed to retain substance while vampirising the other into a shadow.

Often, the closeness of emotional involvement hides the forest behind the proverbial tree. Strong emotions can easily stand in the way of objectivity. It is easier to assess a given situation if we can consider it from a distance than if we are immersed in it. Being able to step aside when we are is a challenge. This is why hindsight reveals so much. Unfortunately is usually comes too late !

[white knight]

Hi starwolf,

You just blew me away with that reply.

Thankyou so much

Tony WK

[Starwolf]

Today, I have been feeling like a jaded "old fart".

So thank YOU for this timely reminder that I can still make sense... regardless.

[V17]

Hey Tony, Hey Starwolf

I'm finding it difficult to get my head around some stuff and have been left feeling confused. Not by your posts, just relationship stuff. So, I've come back here to re-group. I'm a little bit all over the place and need 2 sentences clarified? Is that okay?

First is this one, Tony..
..."If you think its mental and its personality then he'll pay a price for being himself". I don't understand the 'paying the price for being himself" part??

The second one is this one, Starwolf..
..."Whatever the nature of the relationship, one person shouldn't be allowed to retain substance while vampirising the other into a shadow." Would you be able to elaborate on this further for me please?

V.