Is this wrong?

puzzlegirl · ‎18-09-2021

Hello, and apologies for the crass-ness of this post. I am in the middle of a marriage that is completely disintegrated. He doesn't love me, doesn't want me. Recently told me he doesn't want to have sex with me. Then the next day tells me he doesn't think it's wrong for another girl to give him oral sex, and vice versa. We have always been monogamous, and he has said that sex is the line that crosses into an affair. Mind you, the relationship he has had with a woman these last 4 years I already consider an affair. Now with this new relaxed morality I've heard from him, I am questioning whether these two have already crossed that line? I certainly feel that there is nothing sacred left in my marriage, and this makes me feel even more like dirt. Do you think he's crossed the line? Or am I being super moral and should I lower my standards also? He also encouraged me to go out and find a man to give oral sex to. It just makes me feel worthless. I'm just not sure if my view is clouded by my hurts. Thanks for your input.

Dadmeister · ‎28-09-2021

Petal22, I could not agree more. No one should be forced to change their moral compass. Although not religious, I took our church wedding vows very seriously and have loved and honoured my wife through nearly 27 years of marriage. My compass has not deviated while hers has. Puzzlegirl needs to reconnect with herself in order to think clearly about her future path.

Guest_1643 · ‎28-09-2021

Hi puzzle girl,

I wander if u had more support and validation if it would be easier to separate and even clear roommfor u to find a more fulfilling relationship.

I was in a very unhealthy situation, not like urs exactly but I was definitely scared to leave and putting myself in a situation that hurt me, it's hard to leave, confusing, and hard to know what's true or real after a while, from my experience. Finding professionals who believed me was a huge aha moment. Be it a dv counsellor at casa , 1800 respect, Lifeline, or someone at the triage or a woman's centre, I thin it makes a difference to have someone believe Ur account of what's happening.

of course oral sex is cheating!

Why should u stay faithful to someone who doesn't value Ur loyalty or Loyalty at all.

I think suggesting u find someone else is very mean. It shows he thinks Ur marriage isn't important and would be happy to jeopardise it. I wander also if he has made preparations for separation ? I hope u are OK.

puzzlegirl · ‎29-09-2021

Big thanks to Harlow88, Dadmeister, Petal22, and Sleepy 21 for your recent replies.

Dadmeister, I'm sorry to hear of your situation- it feels like a betrayal, doesn't it? I feel like for 22 years I have known this person, and suddenly they are a stranger to me. He is wanting to take our marriage places that I am uncomfortable with, and that hurts because I thought he was supposed to care for me and protect me. Instead, he is the one inflicting hurt. Perhaps he was always like this, and that makes me feel stupid for not seeing it earlier, and for wasting so much of my life with him.

Which brings me to your comment Harlow88- that this is a blessing. I am almost ashamed to admit it, but there is a part of me that is relieved that we are at this point of discovery. Perhaps it is a blessing. I cannot walk this road with him anymore, not without significant hurt to myself/my moral 'code'. I feel it, I almost begin to dream of the future and the possibilities where I can be loved for who I am, and then I find myself on the floor crying because I am grieving so hard.

And, Dadmeister. You mention your wife had an emotional affair. I 100% believe that this is what my husband is doing. It started 18 months ago, I jerked back hard on it, we fought, and he decided our marriage was over (though took 12 months to tell me so- in that time I thought we were 'working through' stuff). It guts me that he would choose this direction, it almost feels like he is throwing away everything we have built together. I guess he is. And, I guess it's his choice. The bottom line is that he has found someone he loves, and it isn't me. That hurts so profoundly.

And Sleepy21, yes, he already decided 12 months ago to separate. But only just recently told me. To him, it's over. To me, I am shell shocked and devastated. I have been fighting hard for our marriage, but it's only now that I have given up hope, and no longer put in the effort. I unwanted, unloved by him, and that just is what it is. It's hard though, because with the knowledge that we are over, what is my motivator to keep doing anything for/with him? I guess loyalty, being a decent person. But ironing his clothes makes me feel like I am hugging an enemy. Having sex? Yeah, let's not go there.

I appreciate everyone who has reminded me that I exist, that I am worthy. I can see how easy it is to get swallowed up by the pain. I feel used. I feel like I've lost 22 years of my life. I feel it's unfair. Maybe one day I'll be loved..

Dadmeister · ‎29-09-2021

Wow Puzzle Girl what an amazing response. Believe me your response has made me and probably others feel validated. Long term you need to change the mindset of 22 years wasted. Hopefully it wasnt all bad and I am sure there are positives you can look back on. Despite my wife not talking to me for a year now I still look back on all the good times and the 3 beautiful daughters we made. Part of me is so scared to move on despite living in a loveless situation, yet when that day comes I feel prepared. I found that during this I didnt need many friends just a few solid ones whom i could confide with and still maintained respect for me and my wife.

puzzlegirl · ‎29-09-2021

Thanks Dadmeister. It’s therapeutic as well as painful to acknowledge the truth with written words. To hear yours and others stories also brings validation- I’m not alone.
You are right- it’s not all been bad. In fact, it’s mostly been good. Or so I thought. He tells me that he has been unhappy for so long, and is immensely relieved and excited that things are ending. I love your strength to acknowledge the good- that’s inspiring. About moving on, some moments I just want out, others I’m wishing I could wake up tomorrow and it was all a bad dream. Mostly, I just want out of the pain of it. I still want the marriage. Curious, what is it that scares you about moving on? And friends… I want to withdraw from everyone. I was friends with the woman he’s in love with but since the confirmation of divorce I’ve decided to close that off. Not rudely, but with a clear boundary because she is the catalyst for this issue. I think the breakdown was inevitable but until I can separate myself from the blame I am assigning to her I think it’s the kinder thing to pull back. At present because of how our life is structured, I’m unable to tell a soul- I guess that’s why I reached out to BB. I’ve been pleasantly surprised at the immense support.

Dadmeister · ‎30-09-2021

Wow, I can't believe you havent opened up to anyone, Part of me is concerned for you and part of me thinks what a strong person to deal with this on your own. I made the mistake of opening up to too many people and then realised that some people take delight in someone else's misery. However the true friends were impartial and looked at both sides of the issue and did not try and tell me what to do, they were just there to validate and keep me sane. When you ask why I'm scared to move on. Well there are lots of reasons including that I have only been with one girl my whole life, my wife hasnt worked in 20 years so i am concerned about how she will be able to manage and I cant bear to be the one to walk out and away from my kids when I was not the one who had the affair. The other point you raised is that the guy she had the affair with was also a "friend" and I guess I just turned a blind eye as I wanted her happy.

puzzlegirl · ‎30-09-2021

Wow at you too Dadmeister. I love that underneath it all, you still have a genuine love and care for her- that is a strong and generous person. But you also need to know that your needs and desires are also important. I saw a quote yesterday- 'Change is hard. Growth is hard. But nothing is harder than staying stuck somewhere you don't belong'. Perhaps we both need to hear this. Ouch.

I haven't opened up to anyone mostly because it would set in motion a chain of events that we are not yet ready for. But a large part too is that I am the typical 'helper' type (it's actually my job) who looks after everyone else's stuff. I'm not good at being vulnerable, put simply. I'll admit that some days I'm not ok on my own, but then I rally the next day. I guess it's just a series of strong and weak moments, which I think is all part and parcel of this messed up grieving process. One day I will get a full circle of support, but for now I just need to weed through the emotions piece by piece at my own pace.

Ah, the 'friend'. I truly wanted to believe that that's all the relationship is, but it's clearly not. I am certainly the 'third wheel' now, and feel like I've been chewed up and spat out in preference of the next best thing. Yes, it's hurt my self esteem (understatement). He keeps trying to conjure up what my next man might look like/be like, but it just shreds my heart- I cannot conceive of another man when I'm not done grieving this one.

I hope you find the courage to put yourself first and find someone who values you for you.

Dadmeister · ‎01-10-2021

Puzzlegirl, hopping onto this forum every now and then gives me inspiration, I try and be mindful that I am not hijacking someone else's post because I think I tend to do that, but I honestly get so much in return from these conversations. I understand the "Staying stuck where you don't belong" theory but honestly as much as I am someone that has craved affection in the past, I have learned that by loving myself and giving to others that I can still be happy. I dedicate my time to my children, one of which has been struggling with a mental illness for a few years now, I have reignited my friendships with mates and I try and constantly talk to them about their own mental health and assist them where possible and of course I take time out for myself be it discovering the outdoors with mates or just walking alone every day. I have started to really appreciate the smaller stuff in life that use to pass me by like nature. Starting another relationship is the furthest thing from my mind and I am content helping myself and others. Thanks again so much for sharing and I hope that the right answers will come to you.

puzzlegirl · ‎01-10-2021

I like this, it sounds like you have discovered a measure of peace, and carved out for yourself a new path that seems mostly fulfilling. Honestly, once this is all over for me, I am not sure I'll ever have another relationship- it is also the furthest thing from my mind. Perhaps like you, I too will grow beyond the pain of all of this. Right now, it's too fresh and painful. And I guess you have given the key to all of that- loving yourself. Not there yet, a very long way off. I am content to give to others, I wouldn't know what to do if I couldn't, but I have a constant disdain for myself (perhaps feeling like a failure in this marriage...). Don't know. But it's inspiring to see someone further along this journey than myself and it gives me some hope. Thanks.

Dadmeister · ‎05-10-2021

Hi Puzzlegirl, just a simple check in to see if you are holding up O.K.? What you are going through is incredibly hard and it is natural to doubt yourself every step of the way. I am also trying to navigate through a separation while living under the same roof and the future scares me. What I have noticed though is that as hard as it is for me it is even harder for my wife. She is torn between the new exciting guy and boring stable old me. All her friends and family seem to side with me and I have told them not to. I have asked them to support her and to respect her through this. So while you need to look after yourself, i also hope that your husband finds his way, whatever that may be.