Am I wrong in my feelings or my decisions?

[Lilaa]

Not sure where to start but to put this simply, I live with a perfect man,husband and father to our daughter and I'm somehow always sad,lonely,rejected,neglected and depressed. There are many times when I convince myself that I just need to change the way I look at things and be appreciative but there are even more times when I pay attention and do not see myself being in the picture. Days and weeks passing by and him not engaging in any meaningful conversation with me other than managing our daily affairs.
We 've been married for 15 yrs and I clearly remember being extremely happy and satisfied for the first 5 years or so until our daughter turned about 1 year old which also coincided with him starting his own business for a couple of years and gaining extensive recognition. He is otherwise a very successful man but there was something that changed him when he built something from scratch and lived that kind of feeling. He had to close the business due to some issues afterwards but the feeling remained with him I think.
I can't really decide what changed him between being focused on our daughter and what happened at the time of his business or that it is just what marriages end up to be after a couple of years.
I have been withdrawn and spend my time at full time work, housework and movies etc. he spends all his time at full time work, with our daughter, reading and learning new things. We go out on weekends and stuff but I can’t really say we are together. It is like we are hired to play husband and wife and we are doing a great job, but I never feel he is really there. If I do not plan for a weekend, then we don’t do anything. If we are with friends, he never knows I am there too.

He never gets upset or angry and never with me unless I get upset or angry and then he says he has similar problems with me too and then we argue. We resolve the argument after sometime but what I had been upset or angry about remains there which most of the time is about his lack of attention or real care.

I am lazy with eating and he is happy to offer me food or cook and we each have our roles in the house work but he never knows how I feel or thinks about asking me about anything beyond managing day to day affairs. I feel like he stopped loving me long ago but is either too kind and polite or cares so much about our daughter that would not do anything about it.

[therising]

Hi Lilaa

Wish I was there to give you the biggest hug.

From one wife to another: Do you feel like you've been cycling through the same old poop for years? For example, you might be thinking 'I'm going to put some effort in here. I want to make a difference. I can't keep living in this somewhat soul destroying relationship'. So you put the effort in, he's happy for it but it's not long before you suddenly begin to feel deflated. You might even be asking on occasion 'What's wrong with me?'

Personally, I found one of the toughest things to do in my marriage was...wake up. Took a long time. Lilaa, we're designed to evolve, from our 1st breath to our last. We evolve on our own and we evolve through our relationships (with our partner, kids, friends etc). What happens when you're the only person who wants to find or make a difference. You become the only person trying to make a difference, while your partner can be quite content with sameness.

I can remember waking up not too long ago. It was pretty shocking actually. Sounds strange but I actually woke up to find the best in myself through my relationship with my husband. I am someone who loves making a difference, he's not. I am someone who thrives on excitement, he's not an excitement seeker. I am someone who has a lot of energy, yet I used to choose vibing low, to match his energy. I am someone who wonders constantly about things and possibilities, he's not. In fact, when I ask him what he wonders about, he'll accuse me of grilling him. Who the heck does that? Generally, people love to wonder, they love imagining. Perhaps it's the kid in us. I'd go on but I don't want to appear like I'm slamming him, that's not my intention. Just wondering if you can relate.

So, I'm led to wonder whether you are someone who looks to make a difference, seeks excitement on some level, looks to vibe high (whether you're aware of it or not) and I wonder whether you are basically wonderful, without the encouragement to wonder more in life. Personally, I don't have to wonder what my husband has planned for the future for us, he's already told me. He wants us to grow old together because he loves me so much. My response 'I actually want to grow young together. Either you're with me on this or you're not. If not, you can grow old by yourself'. I know, harsh.

I believe, once you discover who you naturally are, nothing and no one can stop you from being you. Once you find your natural self, the excitement truly begins.

🙂

[Lilaa]

Thanks everyone. I can't say how much the help via this forum has helped me, you all sound so wise and non-judgemental. I do have a couple of close friends and social friends but and confide in close friends recently who have been giving me a lot of support, but at the same time I do not want to make this the only thing we talk about as I know it can happen sometimes if you allow it. Thank you again.

I found another thread in this forum where two other women had been describing their problems which in details is exactly what goes on in my marriage, and there was a suggestion to read the book 'why does he do that?' and I did read the book in the past couple of days.

And that was it. I have not been crazy, he is abusing me, this is abuse and I could see him within the lines of the book for the most part. He is a water torturer and demand abuser. The book defines many types of abuse and these two types are where he fits perfectly.

My friends say that my problem is that I easily forgive and forget and I explained I had been doing that because I made an assumption that he did not know he hurts me and he did not know what I wanted or needed as he was a man, a sophisticated and intelligent man that did not have much time for emotions in his life, but the book let me see that he must have known as he kept repeating the same patterns while all these years, I thought it was my job to teach him how to love and respect me like the beginning.

I have decided to leave and as I am not ready to be completely alone, I am searching for roomates in the beginning and have a few appointments. I need the space before I decide what is going to happen long term. I cant keep reliving the same thing and the same pattern, just a bit worse every time.

Am I going to be able to do that, I do not know? I do not know if I am going to be too weak and find an excuse for his behaviour again and come up with a solution in my head, thinking that this I have not tried.

[therising]

Hi Lilaa

I wish to share with you a natural self esteem booster. I actually didn't realise I was boosting my self esteem by doing this, until I had the revelation 'Hang on a second, I'm feeling pretty fearless and sassy these days'. I know I've mentioned wonder and I mention it again, as it's amazing how this super natural part of us can impact our life.

For years, I didn't want to create too much conflict in my marriage, unless there was something worth fighting for. I never wanted to experience too much anxiety. My husband's never been physically abusive but he can be an a******e when he wants to be. It's only been within the past year or so that I've allowed myself to be truly wonderful/curious. I've done some serious wondering when my husband's behaviour has been questionable. Give you a few examples. Keep in mind, my wonder is genuine; I really do genuinely want to know the answer to what I regard as insane behaviour:

• 'I'm wondering why you think it's perfectly acceptable to behave like a complete a******e. Is this something that comes naturally or do you put thought into it?' You smiling Lilaa? 🙂
• 'I've been wondering how you can ignore me for just about the whole day and then think I'd suddenly be interested in spending time with you in front of the tv. This is insane. Do you believe I look forward to this?'
• I'm wondering how you think I'd remain interested in a relationship which isn't terribly interesting. Why don't you work on making things more exciting, like I do?

Now, you're possibly thinking 'This woman sounds incredibly harsh with her vocalised wondering'. Lilaa, I've spent so many years (more than 2 decades in fact) begging, reasoning, pleading and crying (literally) for some difference, with little result. So, now, I simply wonder.

Perhaps you're even thinking 'Why does this crazy woman stay?' I really don't have a valid reason to leave right now. My husband's basically a decent guy, as long as I don't tolerate him being an a******e, which I don't. I'm not after another relationship, I'm grateful to live in a comfortable home with our 2 legendary teenagers and while there are many roles I've come to disappoint my husband from (including he who raises me through adventure), the remaining roles he fills are reasonable. Will he change? Doesn't matter. What matters is that I continue to change. I love who I am becoming.

Lilaa, be your natural wonderful self, no matter what path you choose. I wonder what your next exciting step will be.

🙂

[Guest909]

I hope you don't mind me interjecting at this late stage of the thread. I have been following this thread with some interest as your experience appears to be a common problem in a lot of marriages - mine included.

Can I start off by saying that most divorces are initiated by the woman. There are many reasons for this, it may be DV or abuse; these issues are not gender specific. The same literature also says that divorced women generally end up "worse off".

It would appear that most couples enter into marriage with very different expectations. I think it is fair to say that most men enter a marriage with low expectations and most women have higher expectations; "and they all lived happily ever after".

Unfortunately, when life gets in the way the spouse with the higher expectations will disengage from the relationship. The high divorce rate initiated by women and this thread are perfect examples of disengagement due to unmet expectations.

You started this thread with, "I live with a perfect man .. I'm somehow always sad, lonely, rejected, neglected and depressed". A little later, you justified your feelings of rejection and neglect by saying, "he is too narcissistic and full of himself that he can’t be in the wrong". I noticed that you partially retracted the accusation.

Understandable, you then went looking for answers elsewhere. You referenced the book, "why does he do that?". I can only assume that you found the answer that justified your feelings as you went on to say, "I could see him within the lines of the book?" ... he is abusing me".

This type of self diagnosis always worries me. It is very easy to misinterpret, reinterpret the past. The so-called facts are often open to wide interpretation. For example, I could legitimately argue that goldilocks in the fairytale, "goldilocks and the three bears" was a hardened criminal - break and enter, theft of porridge, vandalism of chairs etc.

A little later, I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, you were losing your "sense of self-worth". I can only guess that this is where the real problem lies. Sometimes, it is easier to blame someone else for these negative feelings of self-worth. I know that is what my ex-wife did to me. My support was not enough, she needed constant assurance and admiration to fill a bottomless void within her.

I am not suggesting your decision to leave is right or wrong; only you can answer that question. If you do leave, make sure it is for the right reason.

Paul

[Lilaa]

Thanks Paul, it is always interesting and insightful to hear points of view from a male perspective, and I totally get why you would feel that way and even see your point, just like when my husband explains his viewpoint, although not like you here in many words and just very briefly, enough to turn things around on me ( remember? he does not talk to me, so this is even something). This is why I go back and try to reflect on myself and think what needs to change, mainly my expectations and I lower them further. This is where self-esteem comes into play as I am expected to never demand anything. Sure, help with managing house work and stuff is fine, but he can't stand to share a conversation with me, be alone with me without a book or another activity occupying him or talk to me for reasons other than our share of chores.

Perhaps you have taken my words very literally in this thread, while I have mostly written when I had been totally emotional and confused with lots of emotions as things hav been progressing in the past week or so. In addition, English is my second language and perhaps in some respect, words do not interpret my full intention, this is true in the case of using the term 'narcissistic behaviour', which I tried to explain later to be more around arrogance and his commitment to protect his self-image.

When I said he is a perfect man, I tried to explain that he appears to be perfect and to maintain his perfection, he has to lower me because he can never be wrong or make a mistake and if does, it has to be proven to be my fault. He has never accepted he has made a single mistake, but is that even possible for anyone?

The reason why I could find my answers in the book was because it differentiated between general arguments or disagreements or even fights that can occur in any marriage, even regularly when two partners do not get along but also described when there are certain recurring patterns, then it is abuse because no matter what you do different this time, you get the same result.

The reason why I have been struggling with self-worth is, that he has made me accept I have caused it all. During one argument when I broke something, he abused me. I was sure I was abused, but in time had to accept because I had broken something he had to control me by force as he could not guess my next moves or breaking more things, so it was all normal. never physical since then though

[therising]

Hi Lilaa

You mention 'He has never accepted he has made a single mistake, but is that even possible for anyone?'

I have found sensitive people will often question themselves, largely because they are sensitive to the natural need for self analysis and constructive change. This is how we evolve in the most brilliant of ways. Insensitive people will rarely ever question themselves, therefor they will most likely remain the same, unless something significantly mind altering happens in their life.

So, yes, it is possible for someone to never question their mistakes. They may believe there is nothing questionable about they way they think, what they believe, how they behave. A sensitive person, such as yourself, will find this highly questionable because you know better, given your own experience with the befits of self questioning and personal revelation.

One of the many amazing traits of a sensitive person is an open mind. This is one of the greatest gifts in life. I believe, the ultimate challenge of having an open mind involves being incredibly careful when it comes to what you let in. It is definitely a challenge to never accept anything less than the truth.

Always invite questioning, keeping the mind open.

🙂

[Guest909]

Hi Lilaa

I can certainly relate to your negative feelings of "self-worth". I have struggled with these negative feelings all of my life. It is like a stain on the soul that can't be removed.

In my late adolescent years, I realised that these negative feelings of self-worth were mostly an internal struggle within me. This realisation helped me filter out a lot of the negativity that I perceived as a personal attack on me. The stain is still there, but I no longer need the validation of others to feel worthy.

I suppose the point I am trying to make is this; your husband can't fix you; but he should be there to help you fix yourself.

I hope you find the wisdom to find yourself.

Paul

[Juliet_84]

Hi Lilaa,

I am the person who referenced the book “why does he do that” in relation to my own past history of abuse, and I am glad that you found it insightful. Like Mr Paul, it can be problematic to label other people as we are viewing things through our own lens, although I understand how tempting it can be, because you want to have something, a name, to explain his behaviors. However, in reality we all have aspects of these negative traits in us, but likely many that are also not there. You mention that you’ve tried to speak with your husband previously but have not gotten very far. May I suggest seeing a relationship counselor, they may give you the insight that you are looking for and have strategies for getting through to your husband. He may also be feeling a bit overwhelmed with the situation and not want to address the problem. Whatever the outcome, if you both share a child together, you will need to remain on good terms so I think they can help you navigate whatever you end up deciding.

[Lilaa]

So there has been a lot of ups and downs in this thread about 'is he causing this', 'is it me?', ' do I need him to fix me?', 'do I need fixing at all? maybe by myself?', ' is he perfect?', ' or 'is he an abuser?'.

Just in terms of where things are at the moment, on Oct 7th, I told him in a calm voice that despite having discussed this quite in details recently, he has not talked to me more than a few words in the past couple of days. He got furious and said he would even stop as much as few words. Got his things and moved to another room and has been ignoring me since then. Does not eat from the food I cook and act as if I am not even there. I started hiding in my bedroom too seeing this treatment as I can't stand it and it has been going on since then.

[Juliet_84]

Hi lilaa,

I’m sorry to hear that things have disintegrated for you at home at the moment. I think that tensions are running high between you both at the moment and I think it would be good if you both gave each other some time and space to get over your hurt feelings. You didn’t really mention in your first post what your husbands behavior has actually been that has led to you to be unhappy. Are you able to explain in a bit more detail what are the main topics that you both fight about etc? It might just help us to give you a bit more assistance?