Decades of depression and loanliness, where to now?

[QldMouse]

I’ve been reading these most amazing posts, from people who sound so nice and are suffering so much. Sadly I can relate so much to so many
people. With apprehension can I share some of my story in the hope of getting a reality check and possible advice.

Like so many I had a sad childhood which then turned to fear, shame, loneliness and depression in teenage and young adult years. A partner was found for me, I lacked the courage to ask her out. A short burst of happiness followed with the birth of a truly wonderful daughter who gives me the reason to carry on each day.

Sadly my wife comes with her own inventory of baggage and has suffered depression most of her life. Over our 20+ year marriage
I’ve tried to remain supportive but have done a pretty crap job, and after hitting a low point I started getting therapy. I’m told I’ve made
a lot of progress but I don’t feel it myself.

I’m exhausted, I feel so lost, trapped and alone. I have no friends, no life, and nothing but fear. I’m over the hill, accelerating down the other side with only a few years to go. My wife has sought help in the past but without success, and will not consider counseling or any form of assistance. She remains medicated, but it had an adverse reaction on me. I feel so bad for her and shame that I’m such a rubbish husband.

The therapist I’ve been seeing thinks I should leave and pursue my own path to happiness, but I think she underestimates how much that terrifies me. The fear of being even lonelier than I am now and losing my daughter, the one person that keeps me going, I just can’t cope with that. I still love my wife but our relationship has been poor for a couple of decades. We don’t talk honestly, and she is a bit harsh on me at times. I’m not saying I don’t deserve it, and I understand I’m overly sensitive.

My therapist says that I have qualities that women are looking for, but I am very skeptical. I am paying her to make me feel better
after all. She also underestimates how truly bad I am around women. I have suffered social anxiety since I was young, panic attacks and a morbid fear of women. I literally cannot talk to a woman I like, it is hard enough for me to breath in her presence. I dread to think what they must think of me, my deep breathing is not rudeness it’s an inability to obtain oxygen. Pretty poor prospects really.

I’m lost, can I help my wife? Can I help me? Can I help us or is it really too late? How do you tell?

Thanks for reading, be well everyone.

[QldMouse]

Hi Mary,

Thanks for being there. I am a dead set idiot, I was looking through the thread for your Autobiography in Five Chapters and had a doh! moment. It was one I printed out and have on my file cards! I had been reading it (hence the pothole reference) but my scrambled marbles didn't make the connection. I've thought about other streets but I am a way short on courage to go in new directions, and new streets have never been welcoming in fact just hostile, so up and down the same street is much safer to me. I have to accept the potholes.

You have a point, we each have some similarity of pain from different sides of the fence. I feel so sorry for your pain, I can only imagine how hard and scary it was. I doubt mine is that bad, it is certainly way older and dulled. I so hate there is so much pain in the world.

You are indeed lucky to have friends and support, I envy you that. I have the lady of the couch but need permission to see her now. Part of the couples therapy agreement. I know I need a friend or two. Blokes are not like that though.

Oh boy do I agree I wish I could have stayed on the recovery path too, it felt so good and I was having life just plain work out and then , wife had a trigger I stupidly caused. Not even new stuff, but old weakness in purchasing I had hid. Retail therapy in times of depression is one of my things, I keep getting told I act like a women... not so happy about that. I certainly understand the compulsion women have. I'd be the black guy on "confessions of a shopaholic".

Then being in a weakened state sets you up for one kick in the teeth after another right!! Good old life, always there to smack you when your down eh?

By the way, its only paranoia if the world is not out to get you. My experience is the world is *really* out to get you, me at least sounds like you too. I think I was born with a birth mark in the shape of a "kick me" sign. Maybe more that one of them.

I'm glad you like the couch reference, the owner of the couch loves it too. She says I hide behind descriptive phrases and try to disguise my feelings or something like that. I wish I'd written that session down so I could relive it. If you can figure out how to swap brains, I'm up for that. This one comes with no warranty and has only given me trouble. Very tired of it.

Oh well, the weekend comes. Scary concept, could go well or not. Take care.

[White_Rose]

Dear Mouse

You sound a little more cheery than in your previous post. I hope that's true. Retail therapy eh! I was going to say this is not one of my coping mechanisms, but on second thoughts I think I do now and then indulge. My ex was really tough about buying 'unnecessary' stuff that I have never got rid of the feeling he is watching over my shoulder when I buy anything out of the ordinary. Consequently I think quite a long time before buying expensive items. All very laudable you may think, but I do spend on unnecessary small items which amount to a big sum over time. So yes, I plead guilty. Good to know it's not an exclusively female trait. 😊

I believe there is no difference in pain between people. By this I mean no pain is more or less deserving of attention, love and care. Our pain thresholds are always different to other people and even with ourselves we manage each pain, psychological or physical, depending on our current resources. I have come out of last week much more quickly than I expected because of the love and care I received and the consistency of that care. On my own I think I would still be howling. And maybe, just maybe, I am learning a little about myself and how to cope.

There are men who are capable and happy to take on the nurturing role. I think you are one such male. I have met a few in my life and had some nurturing from them. For me it has always been fraught with anxiety and fear of being abandoned, so not as successful as it could have been. Perhaps this is the same for you and you can find men who will walk with you. Or maybe your couch will teach you not to be afraid of women. I really hope you are not afraid of me. But then I am just words on your screen with no power to harm you in any way. And I would never hurt a mouse.

Being on the path is lovely. It makes my heart sing and my feet dance (but only in private). Falling over or heading in the wrong direction seems to hurt even more when it happens. But then we have the goal of getting back to where we were. I have found once I have fallen and got up again, if I fall once more I can reach out more easily knowing there is a good life to be lived if I stand up. Hope that makes sense. It's all about the past not overwhelming us and we can only learn to manage that after lots of practice. It is still painful.

OK, philosophy lesson over for the day. Keep going.

Mary

[QldMouse]

Hi Mary,

First I hope you have a lovely Sunday, I hope I'm early enough to catch you in your dressing gown! and I hope you have a lovely service where they appreciate how special you are, and your singing.

Then let me assure you that retail therapy is not gender specific, oh no, not at all. I should got to the meetings if they have them and a know several other men who are at least as bad, if not worse than me. This gender expectation think is a challenge. Your ex sounds like my wife, isn't that a hoot.

Your comments about pain are interesting all right, thank you while I process that.

I am so glad to hear you have come out of your pothole, I'm so pleased. Yesterday I really got mostly out of mine, but I know I still have some stuff from the pothole I need to clean off.

Yes nurturing, guilty as charged. It is a double edged sword though, especially with women. I still don't really understand why so many people seem to jump out at me for help. I have actually been labeled "flypaper for freaks" but others, because that happens. It is rampant, I can just be walking down the street and people stop me for directions. At work I used to get a queue form for free advice. Kids, cats, dogs all come to me and no I don't carry a pipe. Mostly I like it, and get satisfaction from helping. Yes, I'm a compulsive pleaser, I just get happy making people happy. I yearn to find people who can make me happy, nobody sees the real shambles I am. I have reached out, recently even. It does not work out so well. There is a book on shame and how friends react I must find, very interesting book. I'll find it.

You are right about the past overwhelming us, I worry a lot about the future such that it is. I worry about way too much I know.

All the happiness of the day Mary, go and get it!!

[White_Rose]

No Mouse, you did not catch me in my dressing gown. I woke up a bit late and only had time for a shower and to get dressed before I left. Made it in time for the beginning of the service, 7:00am. I am pleased that I went as I got a lot out of it, but then I usually do.

I would like to make a suggestion to you when you are beating yourself up. Think of yourself as one of the people in your queue. Listen to the story and give your advice or suggestions. No cheating. Then go and do whatever you advised. We can nurture ourselves as well as each other. The onlooker sees more of the game I'm told, so be your own onlooker. Stand back see what's happening, then offer the advice and do it. Such a directive person.

I climbed out of the pothole for a short time during the week but fell in again yesterday. Clearly I need to be busy constantly , excluding time for rumination.

On Thursday my granddaughter phoned to invite me to dinner on Saturday. Miss Six has very definite ideas on what is right and proper. Dad's birthday is on Monday so he needs a party. She like Chinese food so stated that the family would have dinner at the local restaurant. However, her explanation was not as clear as my statement and I needed to ask questions. "We are going to have dinner at six o'clock," I was told, with the implicit command to be there on time. A question about who was attending revealed the party would consist of mom and dad, Miss Six , and granddad and grandma. Took the gloss off a bit, not keen on spending the evening with the ex. Still I managed OK. Ate far too much but the food was rather nice.

A quiet day today. Actually slept for several hours during the morning as I did not sleep well last night. Probably because I ate too much. Ah these self-inflicted injuries.

You know why people ask you for advice. We talked about this a couple of posts ago. Both our couches remarked on the depression gene recently. Use this re my suggestion above and be as kind to yourself as you are to others.

Does my ex really sound like your wife? I must admit I have thought this a couple of times recently. That's a scary thought. They come in two flavours and colours. My ex still tries to comment on my life or make put down remarks. At least I have learned not to react, at least outwardly. And the comments are reducing in number and content. Now there's a ready made lesson for me.

Look after yourself my dear.

Mary

[QldMouse]

Ah Mary, that was an early start for a Sunday. My respect to you, well done.

It is so nice you get so much out of church, I envy you that. In spite of my issues with religion, I find I have to believe in stuff, be it what I'm doing, what I'm part of, there is another pothole there. .

Did we talk about Brené Brown? I think we did, her books on Shame and Vunerability. My lady with the couch recommended "The Gifts of Imperfection" which I found a bit hard going due in part to the faith requirements, at least as it seemed to me. There is a TED talk she did on YouTube, that also talks about how friends deal with us. Anyway.

I hear (read) what you are saying, treat myself as I treat others just does not work for me. I am pretty rubbish at "distancing" myself and techniques like that. I fail at roll play, and roll up into a ball, I've even had an old Psycho agree and be amazed how bad I was. I struggle with seeing myself in any positive light. Sorry, its hard to describe. I am very sensitive to what people think, and tend to believe the worst. Most of my life I have been told that I am a low life. That is easier to believe. Can I park that one.

You do have a point about being busy, I was/am the same. Sad to hear about the pothole, dam things are everywhere and we have paid taxes and tolls for so long, its just not good enough.

Ahhh your miss six sounds wonderful, their view on life is so beautiful and simple. It would be so nice if life stayed that way. I loved working with young kids because they were so untainted by adult stupidity, and so much fun. Sad they have to grow up, still trying not to myself.

I know we talked about the worn queue, I'm trying nasty after shave and pest repellent. See if that works.

The more you tell me, the more your ex and I have to say "how my wife was" sounds so similar in many ways. She is on her best behavior so I have not had any comments on my life or put down remarks. But is only weeks since that was normal. Our path to recovery has dips and twists and turns as you would expect, but I so want it to work. We go back to Mr big uncomfy chairs this week for a session. I am feeling quite good about it.

All the best lovely lady, a new week has dawned and game on!!

[White_Rose]

Hello Mr Mouse. I wish I could give you a top up of self confidence. How can you be a low life. You are always so kind here to me. Well, I will leave it alone since you ask but I am really waiting in the wings for another opportunity. 😊 No not really, I won't push.

So, two spouses alike, not a good look. I got fed up with being humiliated in public, getting the silent treatment at home, told how stupid I was and useless at anything, even the children believed it until I completed an undergraduate degree part time while I was working full time. By then they were older and more observant but daughter #1 still believes the sun shines from him.

Pothole had some filling put in it yesterday at church. This place has both wounded me in ways too dreadful to tell and is helping me heal. I hastily add there are two sets of people involved.

You did mention a book on shame but could not remember the title. I see you have recalled the author and title. Sounds interesting.

What does I know we talked about the worn queue, I'm trying nasty after shave and pest repellent. See if that works. mean? I am somewhat confused. Worn queue? Typo?

Well at least your wife tries to be nice. My ex says and does what he wants because he is always right. When I built, or rather had this home built, I went with daughter#2 to choose some bathroom tiles. I quite liked one tile and my daughter agreed. But I left it on the grounds that, "Your father won't like it". Daughter protested that her dad would not see them and it was not his business but I could not choose that tile. Things are a bit different these days but I still hear his voice when I go shopping. I must learn to stick my fingers in my ears and sing loudly.

Well it's not late but I am falling asleep at the computer so best post this before I accidentally lose the post.

Mary

So, back for round three, or is it four, with the double couch, or should I say two large chairs? You sound positive about it and I hope you are making progress.

I have a big day tomorrow. leaving home about 8:30 am and will return about 5:30 pm I estimate. Must remember to take the sandwiches. I have asked grandson to organise tea as he will be home all day. So it may be hamburgers and chips or something fantastic. Or I may need to get take away fish and chips.

[QldMouse]

Hi Mary,

Thank you for your thoughts, my self confidence challenge is born of decades of training right from the early days. Receiving compliments is very strange and difficult to deal with, it does not feel real or right. An issue to be tackled, spent a lot of couch time on that so far.

It is difficult at times, but for me right now we are both being very good and on our best behavior, and I hope. I have to have hope, or why leave the bed in the morning right?

Good to hear about your pothole repairs, very pleased. Two groups of people? you know where to put your energy right? You know who to turn away from, are you familiar with the stories of emotional vampires?

Sorry for mumbling in writing, I am very tired and seem to be even typing tired!! I meant the queue to my couch has been well worn, very well worn. I find it a real strain at times, in particular times like this when my energy levels are low. I can't help it, I feel very obligated to help and give what I can but there is clearly not a lot left for me at times. I'm told I have an issue saying no, don't think I'm alone in that!! Another lengthy subject of debate on the couch that I struggle with. Dammit I have so many struggles going on I should be declared a war zone, I wonder if Medicare covers that?

Oh my, Mr Right huh? A distant relation of Mrs Right I think. Don't people who think they know everything frustrate those of us who do? Old joke but seemed appropriate in this context. Sadly that is another thing we seem to have in common. Did you ever find yourself looking sideways at a comment with your face all scrunched up and your brain going "Huh? WTF?" ... then deciding that to debate it was just not worth the pain that would result. So much you let slide because if you try to correct it, it would not have a happy outcome. I'm not a fighter, I'm a runner (or used to be, now I hobble).

Mary, an "undergraduate degree part time while I was working full time" WOW!!! ... I am so very impressed. That says so much about dedication, personal strength, I am so proud of you. I tried for a while and failed, then gave up. So I am seriously taking my nice hat off and bowing respectfully to you amazing lady. Well done, you really are something I hope your realise.

I hope your big day has gone well, and was very rewarding.

Third time in the big chairs, kind of happy we made progress, and apprehensive about it too. The undiscovered country ... I find it scary.

[White_Rose]

Hello Mouse

Sausages and vegetables for tea. In the process of being cooked when I returned. Had a huge day and am completely exhausted but could not resist reading your post and replying.

Yes, compliments can be hard to take. I try modest acceptance but it does not sit well with me, making a joke, showing my embarrassment. New year's resolution, just say thanks.

I had hope for many years. Even tried to get him to a couch but he did not have a problem so why go?

I think someone had a post about emotional vampires. I tried to answer as did Dizzy@home, but the person seems to have left the site. Dizzy knew a lot but I was rather lost.

Helping others does come at a cost. I had an upset friend at the weekend but I could not help. Exhausted from my own hurt and struggling with that. I feel mean but I cannot be there all the time. It made me realise how much I asked of others, though I did try to share the load. Can't have anyone getting more than their fair share or becoming jealous.

I have let many things slide precisely because of the effort to contradict and fear of the resultant action. Maybe I am getting strong enough to say firmly No that's not right. Strangely my GP and couch say I have a strong sense of justice. This may be right but when I go into bat for others I take it all personally. Need to watch this.

Of course I could impress you further by saying my children were still at school and needed to go to all their activities, ballet, hockey, netball, scouts & guides, school activities as well as being on committees to run these. But I will not blow my own trumpet. By the way, working full time was usually night shift, which gave me more time in the day. Went to uni in the evening until 6:00-9:00pm then went to work. I have to say I enjoyed my time there. I really enjoy learning new things.

I remember telling my boss he was "really something else" when he was hauling me over the coals, and he asked me if it was a compliment. Just in the nick of time I bit my tongue and told him he could take it any way he pleased.

Accomplished a lot today but not as much as I wanted in one place. Had a couple of great meetings in the afternoon.

Are you quoting Star Trek to me again, The Undiscovered Country? Good film.

Good-night, sweet prince; And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest. No prizes for guessing the origin of this quote.

Mary

[QldMouse]

Hello lovely and amazing lady,

Hamlet??!?! Your quoting the Bard at me? I feel like the whole thread got lifted up in stature and sophistication!! Likewise I hope your richly deserved sleep was wonderful.

Yes of course the Star Trek quote, I liked that movie also, there was a lot of plot depth to it and it stretched the Kirk character. Was never fond of that character, I knew too many like him, still do really. My resentment is about to show, I need to look over my shoulder for my lady of the couch. She finds my resentment significant some how and wants to dig deeper into it. Hate to think what that means.

I'll come back to the bats, vampires, and other energy sucks. I'm short on time today, sorry.

Yes you did indeed impress me, I am really impressed. That is so much accomplishment in a very busy life, and I'm pretty sure your children and by association their children, are all a credit to you. Even #1 daughter in spite of her inability to recognize it.

Forgive me, have to run. Huge day of boundless chaos in my work life, have to cut my sanity break short and go back to insanity.

Have a lovely day please.

[White_Rose]

Hello My Delightful Mouse

How has your day been? Not too much insanity I hope. Ironical that talking about mental health is the thing that keeps us sane.

Yes I am quoting the bard to you, who better to share with. If rising to these lofty heights gives you vertigo I will remain with the mundane and perhaps the road more travelled.

So what are you resentful about? Kirk was never one of my favourite characters and I understand he was not much liked by some of the cast. On the few time I've seen him, William Shatner that is, in other series I have found he plays the same character over again. OK many actors appear to have one role only and revisit it in any film or series. Kirk lacked a certain sympathy I found, never truly sincere. But we are talking about actors.

Is this the trait that annoys you and incites your resentment? Digging deeper is probably good for you and your ego. May well be painful. A few posts ago I mentioned being upset. The reason was the couch wanted me to write a timeline on the ongoing event between me and my priest. I agreed, because I am a good girl and always do as I am told. Put it off until a couple of days before the visit and sat down at the computer to carry out my task.

Couldn't do it. Just fell apart. I saw the couch again this morning and told her the rest of the story. I spent the weekend following the psych visit in tears and lots of pain. Went to a different church for too many reasons to explain, started to feel a little better during the week but the hard knot of pain in my chest and the anger and resentment would not go away. Attended my usual church the next Sunday to give one of the readings.

I decided that I would ask for healing after the communion service. It's a reasonably frequent occurrence in the Anglican church. The priest came to the sanctuary rails and asked me what I wanted and I said I wanted to leave all the hurt, anger and bitterness behind. We held hands while she prayed for me and then anointed me by tracing a cross on my forehead with consecrated oil. I don't know or exactly when it happened but by the time I sat down again I felt so much better. And by the time I got home I had lost all my anger etc with the church and particularly with certain groups.

Now I know many people will laugh at this, but too bad. I believe I was healed by God and that it will stay with me. It has been an amazing experience which I will treasure all my life. And I still have that serenity.

No words left.

Mary