Decades of depression and loanliness, where to now?

[QldMouse]

I’ve been reading these most amazing posts, from people who sound so nice and are suffering so much. Sadly I can relate so much to so many
people. With apprehension can I share some of my story in the hope of getting a reality check and possible advice.

Like so many I had a sad childhood which then turned to fear, shame, loneliness and depression in teenage and young adult years. A partner was found for me, I lacked the courage to ask her out. A short burst of happiness followed with the birth of a truly wonderful daughter who gives me the reason to carry on each day.

Sadly my wife comes with her own inventory of baggage and has suffered depression most of her life. Over our 20+ year marriage
I’ve tried to remain supportive but have done a pretty crap job, and after hitting a low point I started getting therapy. I’m told I’ve made
a lot of progress but I don’t feel it myself.

I’m exhausted, I feel so lost, trapped and alone. I have no friends, no life, and nothing but fear. I’m over the hill, accelerating down the other side with only a few years to go. My wife has sought help in the past but without success, and will not consider counseling or any form of assistance. She remains medicated, but it had an adverse reaction on me. I feel so bad for her and shame that I’m such a rubbish husband.

The therapist I’ve been seeing thinks I should leave and pursue my own path to happiness, but I think she underestimates how much that terrifies me. The fear of being even lonelier than I am now and losing my daughter, the one person that keeps me going, I just can’t cope with that. I still love my wife but our relationship has been poor for a couple of decades. We don’t talk honestly, and she is a bit harsh on me at times. I’m not saying I don’t deserve it, and I understand I’m overly sensitive.

My therapist says that I have qualities that women are looking for, but I am very skeptical. I am paying her to make me feel better
after all. She also underestimates how truly bad I am around women. I have suffered social anxiety since I was young, panic attacks and a morbid fear of women. I literally cannot talk to a woman I like, it is hard enough for me to breath in her presence. I dread to think what they must think of me, my deep breathing is not rudeness it’s an inability to obtain oxygen. Pretty poor prospects really.

I’m lost, can I help my wife? Can I help me? Can I help us or is it really too late? How do you tell?

Thanks for reading, be well everyone.

[White_Rose]

Dear Mouse

I am so sorry about your friend. It must have been a dreadful shock to you. I have some idea of how she must have felt because I have been in that place. I am here because someone cared enough to knock on my door and insist she come in. While it is dreadful that a young life has been cut short you will always remember her as a happy person who brightened your life. I am crying here for both of you.

Since then my journey has had so many bumpy bits, roller coasters and downright dark times. If I can find the strength to turn my life around I'm sure you can. These past two years have been fraught with pain and disappointment, but today I was smiling so much at my GP that she couldn't take the smile off her face. And I got a hug when I left. I wish I could send a smile to you and get a smile in response.

Good party. GPS performed excellently.

Mouse, I want to say so much to you but I am tired, weary with all the running around I did today. I'm glad you have returned. I don't think anyone is destined to be unhappy, but I think you find this the easiest way to go.

My John Denver collection is on CD, but I have been a fan for a while.

I am falling asleep so will write more anon.

Mary

[White_Rose]

Dear Mouse

I am so sorry for the death of your friend. I have been sitting here in tears for both of you.

I posted to you but the wretched program chewed it up and lost it. I am so tired I am falling asleep over these words, so I will try to post again and go to bed.

Will write in again.

Mary

[White_Rose]

Here I am again, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. Well in my imagination anyway.

My very dear Mouse, as you can see, my first post did not get lost after all. So pleased about that. Here you are with three posts from me. Such wealth!

Why would it cause pain if you searched for happiness? Have you talked about this to your couch lady? I think this is such an important topic that should be addressed PDQ. Ultimately everyone is responsible for their own happiness. Those who love us are part of the process or system but are not responsible for bringing or giving happiness. My GP was so pleased for me as I wrote above.

I was listening to a talk by Fr Laurence Freeman speaking about happiness. He said that when we see someone is happy we become happy, and when others see us happy they become happy, so we are happier by seeing their happiness. He said eventually we all end up in a state of ecstasy, a very much tongue in cheek ending. But he is right as shown by my doctor's reaction to me. I would love to be happy 24/7. I suspect it's not sustainable and contentment is the best we can get as a permanent state. I am happy to settle for that. 😊

Life does have a way of manipulating our emotions but we can still be happy/contented underneath all that. I believe this is true for me ATM but also that I will encounter events that will cause pain. So I am trying to build up my resilience and mange the down times with less fear. Really it is fear that brings us down, fear of the future, fear of losing something precious, fear of what others will say or think. We need to look fear in the face and say we will not be intimidated.

Here endeth the lesson. Must get ready to go out and talk to the people I visit. Good to hear from you and sad for you for your loss. Keep her memory and happy face in your thoughts.

Mary

[QldMouse]

Hi Mary,

Wow, three posts, I'm rich!!! Thank you sweet lady, I'm sorry to have brought you to tears. I was too. I also feel bad because I was a bit rude to her. I actually had panic attacks, and I feel like crap over it. She was so nice and friendly, and bubbly and outgoing that she did tend to intimidate me most of the time. I actually discussed her with my couch some months ago. I was in search of courage to say something to her but that door is now closed. So I may be taking it a bit harder than is reasonable. The fact that she was also about my daughters age also scares me. I worry about the light of my life constantly, and I know she is very deep. Better leave this topic before I freak completely.

I'm pleased you are now bright eyed and bushy tailed, I probably have a few more days of jet lag before I get there. I am quickly getting back on an even keel.

Ok here goes, this is a source of many stern talks from my lady of the couch. As you probably gleamed my marriage has not been a happy one for many, many years. I hang in there for my daughter, and because regardless of it all I do feel strongly for my wife, She has been on anti-depressants for as long as I have know her, and has depression and issues that parallel and even trump my own. She has sought some help but never persists. She has been to some really drop kick dump psycho's though. She is a complex woman, mind you my couch says I'm complex as well, so we are a match.

I do not want to hurt her, even though by trying not to hurt her I in fact have done so. I am trying to encourage her and support her, but at the same time I deal with a lot of stuff and am not happy. If we were to separate I know it would hurt her deeply, and my daughter, and I just can't do that. I would rather take life on the chin at this point and hope for a better outcome. Then my couch goes off on the "you have a right to be happy too" rhetoric and I just can't go there. Add to that my small mountain of issues with people and female people, and I know in my heart I would be worse off and I would have created undue hurt.

That is it in a nutshell, what that turd with the chairs summarized in our first session. He spotted my fear of my wife and my panic in minutes flat and zoomed in on me as the issue for the two sessions we had. that is where his blunt one liners got my goat. Yes, he nailed it.

I'm not sure where that really leaves me, just trying to do the best I can with what I have.

Thanks for listening/reading.

[White_Rose]

Dear Mouse

What a tangle of issues for you and your wife. I am so sorry it has all become a massive problem with no light at the end of the tunnel. Did I just mix my metaphors? In many ways I do agree with your lady of the couch in that we all have needs which should be met. Please note I don't talk about entitlement, I'm not sure anyone is entitled to anything.

We are all in need of love and ideally we are loved by our families when young with the additional love of a spouse and children as we grow. The problem, of course, is that we don't always get good parenting and often look for this in our spouses. More often than not, this adult parenting we receive makes us dependent on the person providing the parenting. Once we are in the parent/child situation it's hard to change the relationship to an adult/adult relationship. It's one of the problems when children grow up and is at the bottom of 'teenage rebellion'. It's good for the child to leave home for a while and return as an adult, so long as the parent will allow this.

I know this describes my relationship with my ex, although I do not believe I was looking for a parent/child relationship. I thought I was going into an adult situation. All this got me was a belief that I was stupid.

My beliefs tell me to forgive others. Sadly it is perceived as forgiveness for the other which lets them off the hook. In fact forgiveness is for the victim. It releases him/her from the bondage of the other, helps the healing process and restores calm. It certainly doesn't matter if the other rejects the forgiveness or even knows about it. It is something we do for ourselves, letting go of our pain and hurt and accepting the other as he/she is. And yes it's hard.

It can also be part of the process towards adulthood, freeing us from dependency and allowing us to live our lives the way we want. And it does do this, even if there is someone who wants to return to the previous status. Once you have found yourself you cannot go back. This is why mediation is good for us. We come to see the depths of our being, the truth within us and the solid rock of our souls. Wow! I hope that's not too flowery for you. It is very much what I believe.

When are you visiting the couch next? I have an appointment tomorrow morning. Lots to discuss and some fence mending. I told her, via a letter, that when she tried to explain something to me she slowed right down and it was like watching her give birth to every word. Whoops!

Mary

[QldMouse]

Hi Mary,

Thank you, I think your metaphors may be as mixed as my feelings. I keep seeing lights at the end of the tunnel but so far they have been trains, express mostly. I agree about entitlement, that reminds me of the Will Smith film, the Pursuit of Happiness. Not really a Smith fan, but that was a very moving (and true) story.

Oh my your relationship with your ex sounds complex, and I can relate to a lot of it so well. I had to grow up very early on and be the adult after dad shot through, and mum got sick and I became a care giver way before the term was invented. I know at times I act like a child but that is pretty rare, I do get a bit sick of having to be the grown up, having to keep the peace, etc. I would love to go back and find out what a childhood and teenage years were supposed to be made up of. Too late now I know.

It is simplistic of course, there are good and very good periods. One thing that hit me about that young lady who is now gone was how well she kept her black dog hidden, and I know I do that. Most people only see the mask, including my wife a lot of the time. I didn't think I was doing such a good acting job, but comments from people and discussions on the couch made me realize that I do a pretty good job of hiding my pain and frustration most of the time.

I agree with you about forgiveness, I try to not carry too much baggage from past wrongs, I also tend to forgive and move on but I don't think that lets people off the hook. I still believe that they have to atone for their lives, but that is up to St Peter right? I've got enough on my plate, he can keep his job!!

Wow that was flowery all right, well done though. Maybe my meditation failures have something to do with the depths of our being, the truth within us and the solid rock of our souls as you say. scary thoughts on that path.

Good to hear your back to the couch, I hope it is a very pleasant and rewarding session with some solid outcomes. Don't forget to use some good undercoat and durable paint on the fence after you mend it. Keep it in good condition so you don't have to come back and do more repair!!

I know I'm going to take lumps for this, but my wife does not want me to see my couch. She wants us to sort out our issues without me talking to another woman, and I've made her a promise that I won't without her knowledge and approval. So I'll fly solo for now and we will talk about it on the weekend. Oh well.

Thank you and be well lovely lady.

[White_Rose]

My Dear Mouse

Not getting help, especially when it is available, is not on. I know, I know, it's not my business, but it is in some ways. You want to talk about these things. Does your wife know you correspond with a woman?

Look, your wife does not want to get well otherwise she would persevere with the therapy. Yes, I know that's simplistic, but basically true. She can justify her actions by making you a partner, an ally and complicit in her avoidance of treatment. If you don't go, she need not.

I have been reading your book The Gifts of Imperfection and wow does it make sense. The author talks of compassion and how there must be boundaries if you are to be compassionate. Having read it I can see what she is talking about. It seems to me that setting boundaries, with consequences for your wife is being truly compassionate.The point is, if your wife does not want to get any treatment, that's her problem and she must live with the consequences. You are going to get yourself as right as possible and do not need her permission. You compassion is in showing her what she could be, the life she may have if she took the help that's offered. Plus all the support you can give.

I know I haven't written this properly, only just read the book once. Read it and see what it offers both of you. Also I am a little nervous I have overstepped my boundaries. My excuse, for what it's worth, is that you were getting so much from the couch and possibly could help your wife more. Instead she has chained you to a life of frustration and pain. Oh Mouse, my heart breaks for you. So near yet so far away. Please forgive me if I have been too blunt.

Had a good chat with my couch lady. I showed her your book and asked if she had read it. She said no so there goes my theory of us seeing the same couch. You must admit it would be funny though. she did forgive me, or at least said that it would take a lot more to offend her. But now I think about it I feel there was a bit of irritation for me. Ah well, I'll ask when I next see her.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions, including you and Mrs Mouse, so forgiveness does not let them get out of jail free. If we can truly let the hurt go and see the other where they are and accept them for it, then it is good for us. I really don't know what's come over me with such deep and meaningful conversations. Could it be related to why I cannot keep the smile off my face and how good I have been feeling just lately?

Be happy

Mary

[QldMouse]

Hello again sweet lady,

Thank you for your fine council, you are right and I know that in my heart. Your post reads like a transcript from several sessions on the couch. You see why she directed me to that book now don't you. It makes sense to my head, but my heart is a bit stupid. Ok. my head is not a great bastion of clarity either.

I'm sorry I'm blurting out my challenges to you, I am finding it hard to not have the lovely, smart, lady of the couch to talk to. I am going to summon the courage to ask permission to see her on the weekend. I have actually told my wife about me posting here twice, and specifically mentioned this thread and one I had with a poor young lass who reminded me of my daughter. I don't really think she understands about forums though. I do feel guilt, shame and embarrassment that I keep posting here. Back to the book right. You have prompted me to read it again and maybe be more receptive this time.

I actually first came to Beyond Blue to get help supporting my wife in her depression, and going back a few years my couch directed me here for guides and a checklist when my wife was talking about ending her life. She goes in cycles and that was a frequent threat over the years. I know its a cry for help, but she is really not receptive to help. I still carry the guide and checklist with me. I didn't discover the forums until the time my couch lady was going on holiday, and I felt so lost and loosing the plot. Hence the mad rambling that started this thread.

Setting boundaries is really hard, Ms Couch and I have been talking about that for a couple of years. I am weak, and I'm a chronic pleaser going back to mum. I could rarely make her happy, but spent a lot of my early life trying. I do get my joy from making people happy, unfortunately I'm not on my own list of people who need to be happy. Oh boy have we discussed that at length. One of my very touchy subjects I'm afraid. My rank of worth is just below the cats, birds and the goldfish. I have trouble getting past that. Lot of time on the couch discussing that.

Thank you, you have not overstepped any boundaries. I'm so honoured that you care. On one of my last couch sessions we talked about this thread, and how disturbingly honest I had been. I'm a bit shocked. Ms couch said it was proof that I can open up when I feel safe.

I'm so pleased to hear you have a smile on your face and warmth in your heart, you are such an inspiration.

Time to do better for me isn't it.

Be happy.

[White_Rose]

Dear Mouse

I had not realised you have been chatting with your lady of the couch for so long. For some reason I thought it was a fairly recent development. I am tickled that I sound like your couch and feel it's an enormous compliment. Have you ever taken a copy of this thread to show your lady? I am so very pleased you can open up here and feel safe. Of course no one knows who you are which is very reassuring.

Interestingly my psychologist sent me to look at BB several years ago. I wrote some posts and then started to answer others. After a while I was asked if I would like to be a community champion which also tickled my fancy. So here I am. The past six weeks or so have been quite a roller coaster with events unfolding that have both shocked and hurt me greatly. Pretty well over the betrayal/abuse but still waiting for the next round. Which only makes it more marvellous that I can smile. perhaps there is something to be said for drugs? My two lady GPs take great care of me for which I am eternally grateful.

I have absolutely no objection to you blurting out your challenges, as you put it. That's what BB is for. I on the other hand am very honoured to be the recipient of your trust and confidences. So there. Please don't feel bad about posting here and please don't stop. After all, where else will I get to practice my counselling skills?😊

I am so sad that you feel you need to ask permission to see your couch. I imagine you have talked about this with her. Am I being nosey if I ask what she says?

You know many people think that a threat of suicide is a cry for help, but I'm not that certain. That may be a part of the threat, but it can also be a manipulative action to force someone else to do something. And, judging by my own experience, it shows the depth of despair and hurt the the person is feeling. I have to say I never considered the possibility of someone stopping me or even being interested enough to care. It was all about getting rid of my pain once and for all. I suspect this is what your young friend felt. But then it would be very hard to say, "It's your choice" and walk away.

I was a people pleaser, especially the to ex, but lately I have been associating with people who are interested in what I have to say and do not just ride roughshod over me. It has been an amazing experience and given me confidence in my life and in making decisions. I am far less nervous about raising my voice in discussions.

I need a bigger word limit.

Mary

[White_Rose]

A quick post Mouse. I found this thread today and wonder how come I missed it. I think it would be good if you read it.

Staying Well/Getting to know you...or is that me? It may be useful or something. Long thread but worth the read. Perhaps you could join in the conversation? Dizzy was not a CC at the time. You can see why she was asked to do this job.

Mary