People who don’t seem to get better -Why?

[Ramblify]

Hi, I have lived experience with depression and anxiety. I consider myself lucky that I received good help from health professionals. I knew from a young age (16/17) that I didn’t want to be like my parents; and I wanted more from life.
Recently, I’ve done a basic course in Individual Support (Disability); and have been working with people with disabilities and more recently, people with mental health disabilities. What I see a lot of is people who aren’t able, or just don’t want to, engage in their goals. Most have very bad living conditions - mostly dirt and hoarding. Basically they buy things and don’t clean, or have any organisation system. I also have lived experiences with these issues. The difference I think??? Is I was able to ask for help and if I didn’t get the right help or person I could look elsewhere.
Im just rather perplexed at what happens to people to get in the states’ I’ve been witnessing? Have they given up on life? It seems like they don’t want to get better. Are they medication resistant? They don’t seem to like any doctors, Psychologists or Psychiatrists - they think they’re old dinosaurs and they find them pretty much useless. I have certainly had a few experiences like this myself, but I just found someone else. I guess I am lucky I have openess as a trait?
mother people I have know who have had eg: a diagnosis of anti social personality disorder, and once they got the diagnosis they pretty much decided they were f&$@ed and nothing could be done; and stayed in their bedroom in their parents house for 20 years.
I can’t totally relate to fear of failure (or success), low self esteem, low self worth, being and feeing overwhelmed and paralysed, procrastinating. But I guess I am (by nature??) somewhat resilient. I just wanted to get feedback about the notion of people who have mental illness who can’t be helped (usually because of their mental illness). How do people become stuck? Is it a lack of insight? And personality traits!? Are they just a lot sicker than anyone ever knew… I’m struggling to comprehend.
thnaks

[Guest_1643]

Ho rambling,

I think that the recovery model of mental health may be very different to what Ur describing.

I have hears of recovery coach, I think think some ppl can be offered one through the ndis.

It was the private system that harmed me...I had a background of abuse and the therapist I saw was abusive.

I find the private system better in many ways, the private sysfe, there are a lot of vulnerable ppl exploited for money.

I've read a lot of books from survivors of the psych system, and talked to many in the public system.

I see a lot of ppl, for example, who return to abusive relationships, and I was baffled myself. I've since researched it a bit.

It's really hard to recover when u have someone abusive in my life. I learnt that too.

The abusive person questions Ur reality and Ur ability to manage.

Yet if a lot of ppl left the abusive person they'd have to start over completely or be financially vulnerable. Hard choices.

The recovery model of mh is used widely.

There is an emphasis on peer work, a d providing ppl with the chance to talk to someone who's been through what they have.

I wander if Ur clients might respond well to a peer worker.

In some ways, I am like u in that I did get help through support services, in other ways I'm like Ur clients in that I felt stuck and stayed in a bad situation situation four years due to abuse, so I can relate to both.

[Guest_1643]

I also don't want to sound too millennial here, but there's a huge disparity between how 5he system treats certain ppl...I was a young, shy girl of 20. I had an abuse history and my parents were not supportive.

I don't think I ever had a chance on my own.

It's not that I wasn't smart, open, or curious

It's that I was alone, vulnerable, preyed upon by narcissistic doctors, and often women who have experienced abuse get misdiagnosed with their trauma not believed.

It's such a bad system.

No one a asks the right questions.

[therising]

Hi Ramblify

I believe it's the trait of a wonderful person to wonder a lot. I imagine this is an ability you have, to be naturally full of wonder. I've found a wonder filled person is typically be an open minded person, often questioning their way toward inspiration and change.

I think while mental health issues can stem from an enormous variety of factors (chemical imbalance, genetic factors, environmental influences, trauma and so on), it can on occasion involve a lack of wondering that leads a person to feel stuck where they are. For example, if you're not led to wonder about the incompetency of your treating doctor or mental health professional, you can find you're stuck questioning yourself ('Why am I not getting better? What's wrong with me?'). If you're not led to wonder about exactly what would make a difference, such as a more effective anti depressant, you can be stuck in a depressing sense of sameness with a med that's messing with your chemistry and energy levels. If we're not led to wonder about our ability to feel stress or feel what's depressing, we can be stuck questioning our anxiety and depression, as opposed to questioning why we have the ability to sense. If people were not led to wonder beyond the degrading and depressing beliefs that were placed in their head in childhood, they would be left to face the depressing nature of their false beliefs for the rest of their life. Taking it up a notch, if Jung had not seriously wondered about the relationship between psychology and spirituality, we may still be basing psychology largely on Freud's ideas. If no one was led to wonder about the incredible changing nature of the human being, the fields of epigenetics and neuroplasticity would not exist. Fascinating fields of research and revelation. A truly wonderful man is Phil Borges. He's contributed to producing a fascinating documentary called 'Crazywise'. He also happens to be an amazing photographer. 'Crazywise' offers a very different take on certain aspects of mental health.

I know 'wondering' is a simplistic way of looking at things but I believe, in some cases, a lack of wondering, a lack of leading people to imagine a difference, a lack of leading people to fully investigate root causes for suffering (on a variety of levels), a lack of leading people to think outside the square can play some part in how we perceive reality. I think sometimes we can be left in a state of hopelessness when what we face is a lack of what we need most.

[Guest_1643]

Hi the rising.,,I love wanderers!

I once took a medication for mh that is considered fairly powerful , it had no effect on me whatsoever.

So I wandered why. I decided it was because my particular problem was so severe that this drug which others found scarily impactful, did nothing to calm or help me, jf anything I felt worse. I was past help. Too sick.

It's now a full ten years later and I'm finally seeing a good doctor.

I told him about my experience with that med and he said it's called a paradoxical effect. Happens a lot. For some ppl the drug does the opposite of what it's intended.

I'm not too sick, the drug was wrong for me.

I guess we internalise things sometimes and get the messafe that if a treatment doesn't work we much keep at it to really get results or just beat ourselves up for something not working.

HOneself, challenging the medical model as is has saved my life.

Now I don't think, oh, what's wrong with me, I can't get better, I demand more of my service providers and ask "why aren't you helping me?"

I think the system wants to keep us down and from asking questions and many ppl stay stuck in cylical unwellness.

It's not their fault.

[Guest_1643]

Thanks Geoff. Ocpd is interesting for sure, as are all cluster cluster personality disorders, including avoidant personality disorder which also falls into this group.

It sounds like it may relate Ramblify to some of Ur patients and their feelings.

Re personality disorders, I just don't get how a personality can be disordered, and don't like the name.

I also feel like a lot of times women talk of trauma, and their trauma is not believed, instead they get diagnosed with a personality disorder, further traumatising and disempoeeing them.

However I also believe if the stigma against personality disorders was treated, and people understood them better in society, it would be better for everyone.

Hate when ppl simplify these complex disorders which speak often to serious trauma, and just use it to call patients and trauma victims , difficult.