No help available

[interloper]

I live in a country town in Victoria, so options are automatically limited.

I have seen 3 GPs, 2 psychologists, 1 counsellor, 1 mental health care nurse, tried meds, etc.

I am at my wits end. Firstly nothing.... nothing, relieves my symptoms.

The first psych gave me the "google-list" of self-help (exercise, diet, music, gratitude lists, hobbies, etc) and that I was being dismissive, even though I had been doing all that stuff. Then I saw the counsellor, who straight up told me he couldn't help. My current psych is making no headroad with me at all and said so herself that she was running out of ideas.

My GP suggested trying meds again, which I was reluctant about. I keep hearing you need to try different medication, so I made myself open to the idea. A liver function test showed issues (despite not being a heavy drinker, taking nothing else, and living a clean life), so he won't prescribe one type of meds and says another type won't help me. He is focussed on the next option being a psychiatrist two hours away. I did some research, and saw a different GP to get a referral to a visiting psychiatrist (again, not keen, but I'm trying to stay open minded). New GP said that psychologist was rubbish, meds are rubbish, and to "try being more positive" and had I "heard about homeopathy".

I am done with this. It is plastered everywhere that help is available, but my experience over the last couple of years says that unless you are a bored housewife or have a lust for material things and need to come to terms with this stuff then it goes in the "too hard" basket. The basket where I live. There is no real help available. I've spoken with phone counsellors here and on LifeLine, and they are in a difficult position and ultimately cannot do anything. Ultimately, I am convinced that there is no help available.

If you've made it this far, thanks. If you've been in a similar situation and found a way to access meaningful help please let me know what you did, because I am ready to give up.

[JessF]

Hello again interloper,

What I really enjoy about your posts is that despite you feeling that there's no point, you are continuing to reach out. Posting here, reading suggested books, exploring options, wanting to challenge your thoughts... that says to me there is a part of you that wants to believe things can be different. Perhaps that is a starting point?

You mention that noone has yet been able to help you unpick your ideas. The questions you ask have been debated by famous philosophers, theologians, wise people for centuries. You sound like a keen reader, I wonder if you've delved into some of the literature around existentialism, nihilism etc that is out there? What value might you find in changing tack to focus on the journey, the search for knowledge, rather than the destination?

[interloper]

I think my ideas started to crystallise when I started reading some thinkers of the past. Reading about Tolstoy was very interesting and he had some great things to say about the lack of meaning to life. I've read a little about Camus, and want to read more. Kierkegaard is another that I have read a little about and want to know more. I am planning to have some time off work and this will give me more time to read and think. I am sure I am not the first person to not feel comfortable with their existence and someone must have nutted out some things by now... I just really strikes me that more people are not worried about their own meaning and existence, but are instead too busy watching reality TV or scrolling endlessly through facebook. I don't get it.

By the way, Seligman's book is in the mail, hopefully here tomorrow...

[Kazzl]

Hi Interloper. I agree with Jess - I am impressed with your persistence in reaching out and your quest to learn and obvious intelligence and deep thinking.

I read a lot of existentialist literature at uni, but that was over 30 years ago. I used to work in the public service and it often made me think of Franz Kafka's The Trial.

I suppose this could be seen as 'copping out', but my antidote to all that's wrong with the world (and there is much) is to make my world very small. I just focus on me and mine, my garden, my dogs, my work (I work in mental health these days).

I'm here, (I had a go once at not being here and I'm glad now it failed) so I will damn well make the most of it in ways that work for me. They might be meaningless, everything might be meaningless, but the alternative is just as meaningless in my view.

We live, we learn, we share, we take care of ourselves and each other. That's the point to me.

BTW - reality TV, actually most commercial TV, makes me want to throw things. I don't watch, but I don't care if others do, because that's not part of my world. If people around me start talking about it I either walk away politely, or impolitely put my hands over my ears and sing lalalalala. 😀

Anyways, just wanted to say hi really.

Cheers

Kaz

[interloper]

"They might be meaningless, everything might be meaningless, but the alternative is just as meaningless"

This really struck me. I have been trying to work out a way to put things into perspective and "enjoy life". This is a really good way to look at it! Everything is meaningless, so let's choose the best meaningless option.

Ps. I am glad you failed in not being here

[Kazzl]

Wow, that's wonderful, thanks interloper! Made my day.

I love that idea of choosing the best meaningless option! I hadn't thought of it that way. So, if we take it that it's all meaningless, the options for best meaningless are wide open for you to explore and find out what works for you. That's exciting!

I hope you'll stay here and let us share your explorations. I like you.

Yes, I'm a bit pleased about my failure too ... every single day. 😀

Cheers

Kaz

[Broken_Biscuit_Blues]

To be honest brother I think you have read more than enough philosophy, You have reached your conclusions and those conclusions are doing your head in.

Time to move your no doubt considerable intellect onto some other area of enquiry. more engineering based, like how does some physical aspect of the universe actually work and try and lose yourself in that.

Alternatively give your brain a break, ride your bike, get some sun on your bones, read some pulp fiction whatever, just get out of your head for awhile,You are driving yourself into despair focusing so much on something that is beyond you to change.

[interloper]

I like your suggestions. I do try to distract myself in something immersive and cerebral. I also try to make time for the simple things in life like you said. They both work for a bit then it all slides back into the forefront of my mind.

I thought my way into this. I have tried a lot of different approaches to distract and change my focus from it. The book Kaz suggested is very analytical and I'm hoping it will give me the tools to think my way out of it.

I understand it is beyond me to affect change in the world. Ignoring things you can't change is helpful when it comes to small things like annoying people or the weather. I'm not sure if I'm able to ignore things that are central to our existence. What do you think?

[Kazzl]

Hi interloper - good to see you. I'm glad you're reading that book. Here's another you might like - The Brain that Changes Itself, by Dr Norman Doidge. It's a very readable book on neuroplasticity. I found it fascinating.

Now, about those things that are central to our existence. For what it's worth, I take that to mean food, water, shelter, clothing and human connection. Not everyone would add the last but I think it's essential and makes the difference between just being alive and living.

Now, I can't solve famine, I can't fix homelessness, I can't feed, clothe and house everyone who needs it, nor sadly can I befriend everyone and alleviate loneliness. But I can make some simple changes for a few people - make a tiny dent in an almighty big problem.

I'm no saint (not by a long shot), I'm just someone who sees others in need and knows that they could have been me had I not stopped drinking (I'm six years sober) or not had the good fortune to have people who cared about me when I was very ill (I'm bipolar). So, I do little things - volunteer buddy for someone with a serious mental illness, chat to homeless people (who are often craving company) and share food and cigarettes with them, donate clothing etc.

I don't know how much difference my little efforts make, but it's enough for me to see my street friends smile, to have them come up to me and ask me how I am (!), and with one in particular to tell me he's remembered his medication today and is feeling better.

We can't all do this sort of thing and I just happen to work somewhere where they gather. But my point is, there are things you can do to help people in your own community, even if you can't do much to help problems central to our existence in the wider world. Make your world small. Remember that old saying - think globally, act locally.

How about trying to volunteer somewhere?

Hope I don't sound full of myself or like I'm lecturing you - I just want to help you find ideas for change because I really do get what you're saying.

Cheers mate

Kaz

[interloper]

When I say ideas central to our existence I mean:

'why are we here?'

'what is the point of doing x, y or z?'

'what meaning exists outside of my own or someone else's head?'

'what is the point of doing anything if everything is ultimately meaningless?'

There are no answers to these questions. It simply is. We didn't exist, then we do for no reason other than chance, and then we stop existing. It is like a science experiment that someone set up and forgot to come back to. Sometimes I can forget this stuff and enjoy ephemeral and transient things. But whether they happened or not doesn't matter because then I go back to feeling like I did before so they may as well not have happened. On a larger scale, that is a summary of someone's life - life is as temporary as the happiness that occurs during it.

On a side note, I on Seligman's optimism test I scored 12 for bad things (mildly pessimistic they won't happen), 6 for good things (greatly pessimistic they will happen), and -6 overall (very pessimistic). I did score 6 for hope, meaning I am hopeful, which he says is the most important score of the test. So I am pessimistic good things will happen, but have hope that things will get better. That seems accurate.

[Broken_Biscuit_Blues]

Why are questions central to our existence any more important than the weather or an irritating person?.They are important to you that is all

Somebody else may find their nasty boss causes them far more distress than being a fragile biological creature existing as a product of blind chance.

At the end of the day depression,anxiety, paranoia etc are often the result of the human brain obsessing about something the individual finds distressing.

The post enlightenment western mind is somewhat "hardwired" to try and solve problems, but what if the problem can't be solved?

Your universe is devoid of meaning that is the problem you are trying to solve. Short of having a road to Damascus moment and suddenly finding some fingerprint of architecture in it, you are stuck with a problem that can't be solved.

You are obviously a bright bloke, I really want to see you move on with your life.At the end of the day like theology philosophy tells us precisely nothing, you can do better than that.