My brother gives me anxitey!

[Olliepop]

My brother, middle child, is very pushy and narcissistic.

He always thinks he is right, he always is so judgmental on people, hes rude, he doesn't listen, when we all reach our breaking points, then he pipes down a little bit.

I blame my mother, for never allowing my father to punish him and learn discipline at a young age like my older brother did. She forever covers for him, till this day.

I find the more i avoid him, and a situation he is in the better. We do work together, which isnt easy, but avoiding him throughout the day i have learn how to manage.

I have realized, anything that changes in my life, he over involves himself and sometimes i cant help but feel i have to start defending myself when he starts commenting, or asking too many questions.

Recently, my husband left his job, which he was very unhappy in.

My husband continues to provide, in his own ways, i just don't inform everyone on what he does, which to me is perfectly fine, and its none of anyones business. Were happy. We both have an income. There is nothing to talk about.

My husband purchased me a brand new car, and recently sold my current. My husband is a thinker, if the new car is coming soon, why wait to sell the current when we can manage together getting to and from places, have the funds ready to lay into the new car when its time.

My brother starts commenting, why sell the car before the new one?.. how can you both get around blah blah blah. If we manage, its none of your business. My husband has told my brother he left the previous job, but my brother still asks me acting dumb, and when i get on the defense explaining why things were done, he doesnt reply and ignores me.. in which i stated, you shouldn't judge situations when you dont know first hand how people feel. he snaps back with im not judging but that happens in all workplaces, it happens here, i even do it. For him to hear himself, i dont respond. and then i think he realized what he was saying then goes on pretending he hasn't made me react, so now IM the one who is upset and hes moved on acting all cool. I find the more i try to voice my opinion to make my brother back off, the worse it gets, but its also not okay NOT voicing my opinion too. My brother is easily jealous of situations, who has the better house, who has the better car, and when people move in silence, and he doesnt know whats going on, i believe he doesnt like that.

Some advice on how to handle him please!

Annoyed sister.

[tranzcrybe]

Not quite on the same page as the consensus here.
This sounds like it goes way way back to childhood sibling rivalry where your brother was favoured over you.
Blame him, blame mother, but ultimately it comes down to how you choose to react to his perceived jibes when anything goes wrong in your lives.

You don't have to explain yourself or defend your husband; just respond to acknowledge his interest and change the subject. If he persists, find a reason to leave the room; but choosing to engage in such petty conflicts/contests just takes you back to being a child again which only rekindles these negative emotions.

[smallwolf]

In my previous post I asked if I could make a suggestion about setting boundaries...

In your original post it seems your brother tends to overstep boundaries and it is also important to be able to protect your emotional space. You can decide what topics are off-limits for discussion—such as your husband’s job, finances, or personal decisions and make it clear to him that you won’t engage in conversations about these areas. Stick to this boundary, even if it means cutting off a conversation or walking away.

Sometimes, the best way to handle his behavior is by refusing to engage. When you stop defending yourself or explaining your decisions, it sends the message that his opinions don’t hold weight in your life, or make it seem that way.

Setting boundaries can be hard and may leave you feeling guilty. And perhaps you can start small and practice with some small things with people you can trust?

It’s important to prioritize your mental health. 

[white knight]

It appear we all agree that boundaries need to be personally enforced by the OP which is a good sign we are all on the right path to their protection.

This annoying brother grew up favoured and seems to have some level of ownership over his sister (and he enjoys protection from his parent) and regardless of her getting married where normally a brother would back off with his intrusion, he has continued on as if he will always have ownership over her. This is the level of annoyance and lack of respect she has had to endure hence why she has sort help.

So, Olliepop, how you go about enforcing those boundaries is the question and you've had several interesting ideas. I'm a little sceptical that he will listen to your efforts to enforce them, this is a game for him, he actually enjoys niggling at you, displaying doubt that you can push him away successfully and he could even likely double down and continue this abuse of your rights and marital decisions. 

So I hope you give us updates as time goes by because this topic is indeed interesting for us here, it allows us to hone our skills over how to approach a topic that is really common where people dont respect such boundaries.

TonyWK

[Olliepop]

I have loved all this feedback, not one of them has been bad, i appreciate you very much.

WK.. you hit the nail on the head. He just hasn't backed off.

My husband, as shown his boundaries, in which my brother now makes out my husband has the issue.

And like usual, when we were kids, my parents always back his side of things, which then my parents get awkward with me because they too know they have spoken bad about my husband.

My parents love my husband, but when that middle child is mixed in or around us, EVERYTHING just changes, they all do.. like they are afraid of him.

I would never in my right mind, laugh or talk about my SIL to my parents and then pretend to be nice to her face. This is why i just dont understand my brother, and why he would know hes upsetting anyone, especially his only sister.

I have become more resilient... and i see my brother making me feel almost left out to see if ill pull back in, however the left out is possible what i need, the space. But those little shock moments still sting sometimes.

I backed off completely.. he knows, and makes me feel very well that he cant talk about things.. which is sad, why make the situation between us worse, anyway.. i just need to control my emotions and keep up with those boundaries. 

The one bit of advice you gave me once, was to tell my brother "sorry you feel that way..." which i believe made him feel stupid in a way, because after that argument, there was nothing to fuel. 

[Olliepop]

Hi friend,

Can confirm... the middle child still pokes the bear.

The fact im more aware of what he does, vs reacting is unbelieveable.

I only react when he has gone too far and i make sure my response is putting him back in line, and sometimes too no reaction makes him realise he wont get what he wants in return.

But i do see him push more and more each day because he isnt getting the response..  the CONS of working with family.

Today i was preparing my self for the "FU** OFFFFFFFFFFFFF" but he stopped before i was able to.

I thought of you! 🙂 

[white knight]

My last partner was a petite lady but could with a few choice words quieten the most aggressive person. I studied this for our full ten years together.

Out of that experience I wrote the thread-

 https://forums.beyondblue.org.au/t5/staying-well/wit-the-only-answer-for-torment/td-p/71440

So, say you have been shopping and bought yourself a gift as an award for all the overtime you have been doing. You arrive home and your sibling is actually jealous of you.

"So did you spend all of your money"?

you:  "It appears that way doesnt it" (note you arent answering the question as your money isnt their business)

"So you probably havent got enough left for your rent next week then"

You: "Probably" Note how you arent answering their leading question and you are agreeing with them which is not conflicting

"You arent answering my questions"

"because the answers are for me to know".  Then walk away.

So here below is a run down of how you might normally answer-

"So did you spend all of your money"?

you:  "Yes I did, I'm a bit worried now"  (this answer validates their intrusive questioning and encourages more")

"So you probably havent got enough left for your rent next week then"

You:  "I think I'll be ok, just crape through" (volunteering private matters gives them a key to your private life)

"Well that wasnt very responsible, wait till dad finds out"

Dispute begins....frustration builds 

TonyWK

[Fiatlux]

Hey Olliepop, Same here!

I went no contact with him more than 10 years ago but I have seen him at funerals and the occasional function. I didn’t speak to him or acknowledge him.

He is always sarcastic and nasty towards me. My younger sister passed away just over a year ago and he was arranging the funeral. I had no intention of going but he sent me an awful message that I should be ashamed of myself.

He also messaged my adult children, telling them the same thing. 

Like I said, I cut him off because he’s not a nice person, yet he blamed me for blocking him. He’s not worth the stress and anxiety. I think he’s a narcissist too. Your brother sounds very much like mine with “better house” etc.

I don’t care for sibling rivalry. So I cut him off. He lives an another country now and that suits me just fine.

Fiatlux 🙏🏼

[white knight]

Good posts here on this thread.

So we are discussing toxicity in people really. That is common but not such a common topic being pursued here. The reason is clear- it isnt fully in the mental health category eg yes Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is an official disorder but most people with narcissism dont recognise it as abnormal behaviour, just a method to get their own way and a learned talent from childhood.

So what is a toxic person. First up a toxic person to another might not be classified as such by someone else. Some peoples behaviour and tolerance might not trigger the narcissist to use their toxic behaviours. There with more tolerance could remain friends with that narcissist but they could also wait years and then - boom!! they face the other side of that person. There's truth in "a leopard doesnt change their spots". 

So a toxic person to us individually is someone that has adverse behaviour as seen and experienced by us, that such behaviour is intolerable or uncomfortable or harmful to the point whereby our well being is under threat. That's my description, there might be others.  

When deciding to sever the friendship or family member there is no easy way but there are unethical ways that can be unfair or even cruel. It is important IMO that you carry that out in a manner that any reasonable person would find fair. The legal jury system has 12 people to decide a verdict guilty or not guilty- "beyond reasonable doubt". That is the best example of reasonable. Another- if you place a robber under citizens arrest you can use force to detain that person to a level of what a jury would consider as "reasonable". Using a weapon to constrain a robber that resulted in serious injury would not pass that jury's judgement as "reasonable force".

So armed with what reasonable is you can sever the relationship in one of several ways. 

• Walk away and no communication- that is a right you have as long as it is permanent. In my relatives case she would break off without a word and return every time when it suited her eg she used separation as a weapon to hurt me.
• Text- A modern means to break up. Some see it as cowardice. It is suitable however if you are convinced that person will argue extensively and you risk being hurt unnecessarily
• Phone call- This is a good way of carrying out the deed. It will display your calm non combative demeanour leading to a chance of them staying calm also. There's also a chance they will apologise before you inform them of your decision. 
• Letter- they dont call it the "poisoned pen" for nothing. Letter is signalling you want to say heap but deny them of a reply. It's too one sided and it's often long and drawn out. Not an example of you moving on and can signal revenge.                                                                                                                                                                            With true narcissistic people (yes there's various levels) you wont break up easily. So put in place your protective boundaries of revenge behaviour (blocking) and report illegal activity.

TonyWK

[Olliepop]

The messages, sounds about right.

I learnt to give him a taste of his own medicine too, with a touch of silence.

Which angers him, because after that he tries to poke me for a reaction.. however now learning how he is, i just stay in my lane and remind him to keep away.. which.. makes him more angry... and then everyone sees how he is acting, and he looks more dumb. 

Oh, another country... what i would love most hahaha!!
Unfortunately, our relationship is business based also, so we see each other 5 days a week. urgh.

[Fiatlux]

Oh Olliepop,

You work together? I would have had a hard time doing that.

About 30 years ago I almost went into a business investment with my brother also. The more we discussed the possibility and how this business arrangement would work, the less enthusiastic I was and opted out of giving him my money and he would have 100% of the control. I escaped from this situation that would have been detrimental to me.

Despite everything, I loved my brother and I  was there for him during 2 divorces. He basically only ever made contact with me when he needed someone to lean on. Even when he became a father, I rarely got to see my nephew. It hurts as he has a long distance relationship with my children. It’s not like I forbid my children to have contact with him occasionally, but he  does say awful things about me. He thinks that I am too sensitive whereby I think he’s too aggressive. We can’t meet in the middle as he’s too arrogant and selfish. 

As you work together, it’s probably best that you don’t discuss your private life with him at work and don’t discuss work when in a social setting with him. 

My brother also dislikes my narcissistic husband, but somehow they have become best buddies. Again I think they do this to spite me.