Anxiety over my effect on others

[BeyondDepression]

Over the years I have been slowly withdrawing from contact with people. In that time my anxiety has been manageable. However lately I have HAD TO have contact with more people and have noticed as a result that my anxiety symptoms are increasing again.

This has brought on self reflection, and I think my problem can be summarised as follows:

"when I interact with people and have the potential to hurt them in some way, then I catastrophise about the worst case scenarios of the resulting POSSIBLE damage to an excessive degree, and this causes me a huge amount of anxiety. This anxiety really is unfounded as these worst case scenarios have never come to pass, but to me they take over my life until I have shown that they are in fact unfounded"

I am not meaning to hurt them, I should make that clear, in fact that is the last thing I want.

Examples

Physical - when I do meet someone I can catastrophise for days afterwards about whether I am in the early stages of for example covid or some other communicable disease and that I have inadvertently passed it on. Yes I know I cannot possibly help that sort of thing, but my mind nonetheless goes into overdrive thinking of what MIGHT happen, not to me, but to them, who they might pass it onto and how that might affect those people.

Emotional - if I am chatting to someone and I say something, and in assessing the response, I may think I have offended someone and caused them some hurt. I will then catastrophise to an abnormal degree about the repercussions of this. How I have hurt their feelings and possibly made them feel bad about themselves.

I have come to realise that my withdrawing is in truth due to me not wanting to cause myself unnecessary anxiety, but can also see how this is self defeating in the long term.

I KNOW this is not normal, and when people do mention it to me on occasion, it makes me want to withdraw even more as I know it is not normal and feel therefore that I am not normal.

It is causing me a huge amount of mental anguish, and so I am wondering if anyone has any tips, books, websites etc or insight on the problem?

[BeyondDepression]

Hi ER

I have the book but didn't read everything you wrote into what I read so might read it again now.

Not off tangent at all. Epigenetics is something that does explain some of the "unknown" feelings we get that we can't explain. Obviously there is trauma that we hide even from ourselves, but I feel that there are some genes that are activated (by events or even by age). Our genetic makeup is meant to protect us and past events, and our ancestors passing this information on would obviously be useful in that context.

For me I see it that on one side of the family anxiety appears to be fairly rampant. Knowing what my grandparents had to go through (and who knows about their own parents and grand parents) makes me see that this could be genetics. I know I have had trauma, but some things don't make sense, so I have to think that there is something else to why we act as we do (or react!).

Regarding the Buddhism thing, yes, the ability to respect all life is probably draws me to it, but herein lies a bit of the problem for me. Where do I stop? Where do I get to a point where I feel comfortable that I am holding true to my values but not getting to a point that anxiety about it takes hold.

My user name reflects that I have had depression in the past and (for my version of depression) have come through that. It has been about seven years since I "fell into the hole". My belief is that anxiety can lead to depression, but in overcoming depression, you need to deal with the thing that led you to that, which is in my case anxiety. So I am now on my path to overcoming or leaning into anxiety. I am of the hope that one day, I will be able to manage this effectively. Time will tell obviously!

Thanks for the time to respond

regards

[Eagle Ray]

Hi BeyondDepression,

Yes, I think there can be quite a few epigenetic triggers. I have read that some viruses, such as the Epstein Barr Virus, are known to be "expert epigenetic manipulators". Epigenetic changes are also found in people with Long Covid, and, as you say, age itself can potentially be a factor. I am in the later stages of perimenopause and what that has done to me is beyond anything I was expecting. I wouldn't be surprised if even there, the hormonal changes are a driving factor in epigenetic shifts...

I just looked it up. They are. The AI Bot anyway tells me, "Epigenetic changes, such as DNA methylation, play a role in the transition to perimenopause. These changes are likely due to a combination of environmental factors, aging, and fluctuating sex hormones".

So it is like a mystery isn't it. Environmental factors, family history, trauma etc are all potentially factors involved and trying to ascertain the most significant factors and what can be done about them is a challenge. The evolutionary biologist, Rupert Sheldrake, takes things further with his idea of morphic resonance which extends beyond epigenetics into the field of collective memory. It doesn't fit with materialist perspectives in science, but it fits very well with Buddhist perspectives and shamanic cultures.

In terms of where to stop with the care of all living things, I think you have to start by including yourself. If you are being hard on yourself in terms of worrying about hurting others, that is not including yourself in the kindness you want to extend to others. I have really had to learn that I needed to start from myself. Until pretty recently I was largely invisible to myself. I only saw other's needs, feelings and emotions. Now that I am putting myself in the picture I have a sense of a boundary. It isn't a boundary in a divisive or exclusive sense, but a necessary care of self that has to be self-protective and self-nurturing. As I start to do this, things have really started to balance out with others. I feel less and less responsible for others but can still be an unconditional caring presence, if that makes sense? I find it becomes easier and easier the more you start with self-care, self-vale and self-love. Then loving others comes from the best possible and most healthy place. It no longer seems difficult.

So I do think you can balance your own values with learning not to go to that tipping point where anxiety takes hold. I still get the pangs of anxiety here and there, but they are lessening. They may take a while to subside completely or they may always be there a little in a residual sense, because for me it's been a lifelong pattern. But things are definitely so much better for me now than what they were before.

I 100% agree with you that anxiety can lead to depression. That has been my experience. Depression for me only happened after being stuck in anxiety states for extended periods. The depression was the eventual collapse into that stuckness. In somatic recovery trauma methods, such as Somatic Experiencing, it's recognised that to come out of chronic freeze (depression) the nervous system has to pass through fight-or-flight (anxiety). Understandably many people fall reflexively back into depression. The Somatic Experiencing approach carefully titrates this process to gently guide a person safely through this fight-or-flight stage back to homeostasis.

Going to run over word count I think, but anyway I hope that helps at least a little.

Kind regards,

ER

[BeyondDepression]

Thanks for your reply again.

Love the comments on epigenetics. It is really a new field from what I can gather, and it seems as though if it continues perhaps great gains will be made in making connections with diseases and other problems that we get without any real cause.

I have read many self care books and think I do TRY and look after myself, but I believe (at least in my mind) that the care of others overshadows my own needs. Many a quote from my parents growing up that could attest to that!

It is just hard sometimes to not know the answers, to feel that lack of control, and have it come up against you at times or for reasons you just cannot fathom.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Even though it sounds horrible, it is nice not to feel alone in my pain, and that everyone here has provided some relief through their respones

Regards

[indigo22]

Hi BeyondDepression, (🖐 ER)

I am really glad you have connected with Eagle Ray.

I wanted to let you know that the person who discovered epigenetics is Bruce Lipton, his work on this goes back to around 1970 but his work was only recognised by the science community much later. He rarely receives the credit for his discovery. His book, "The Biology of Belief" goes into it in more detail and he has written more books since then. He also has many interviews on youtube that are definitely worth a look.

Take care,

indigo