Unbeliever's Undefined Depression Thread

[Unbeliever]

Ok, so my first thread hit a hiccup.

People were asking me questions, and I was trying to answer them, but by answering them I had to discuss things that were "outside" of the main thread topic and it was causing problems.

I'm not the kind of person that likes to ignore people engaging with me, and continue on as if they were not there. But I was unable to think of a way around it (which for me is a novel experience... albiet a slightly frustrating one).

Hence as you can see by the title I have created a thread that is undefined and therefore not bound or restricted in any way for people to discuss anything and everything their little hearts desire and enables me to respond without having to worry about derailing the topic.

* Note that of course standard BB forum rules still apply... no swearing, insulting other contributers etc etc

I added the word "depression" as the discussion should still basically revolve around the subject of depression/sadness/negative feelings and experiences etc.

However, thoughts, perspectives, alternative POV's, theories, abstract ideas etc on depression are not only welcome... but EXTREMELY encouraged.

And because I put my name on there, I think that should allow people to ask me whatever personal questions and I should be able to respond. So I'll do my best to answer any question directed at me.

It is a bit of an experiment... let's see how it goes.

[Unbeliever]

I'll try to kick it off...

I guess the first thing that comes to my mind and is something that has had me curious is what is currently being described as a "Depession Epidemic".

We can assume that there were depressed people before in history, but something must have changed recently for mental health professionals to be consider it an epidemic.

Since depression is widely accepted to be a brain chemistry imbalance which is why commonly medication is prescribed to correct it.

Why do you think there has been a sudden massive increase in depression worldwide? What do you think has caused it? And why now and not before in history?

What do you think has suddenly changed that would imbalance the brains so many seemingly unconnected people in different countries simultaneously?

Anyone have any theories or ideas?

[Peppermintbach]

Hi Unbeliever,

Fancy “bumping” into you again 😉 I believe that I may be one of those “people” you’re referring to who contributed to your hiccup. Sorry, my bad.

Alas, I am so sleep deprived that my brain has, quite frankly, desserted me yet again. When I locate my brain, I might be able to string together a coherent post.

On another note, I really enjoy reading your posts because you bring a fresh perspective to the forums and have a very distinct writing style. Also, thanks for being so considerate and thoughtful in trying to engage with people who post on your threads.

Kind thoughts,

Pepper

[Unbeliever]

Don't even stress a little about it Peppermintbach (love the name BTW)... trouble started long before you posted on my thread.

I first tried to respond to someone who posted something really interesting back in July... that was when it started. So, it was not you at all.

I did write you an AWESOME response though. 🙂

[Unbeliever]

Ok, so here is another one that has been rattling around in my brain for a while...

Statistics for depression are significantly higher and increasing among middle-class 1st world people of all ages than in poorer "ghetto" type areas in cities or people living very harsh lives in 3rd world countries.

The difference is very noticeable in predominantly African American and South American populated poor neighbourhoods in the US.

But the statistics are similar in cities around the world where predominantly "minority" populations are densely living together in very poor city areas.

And of course no-one can doubt that life is extremely difficult for untold millions of people in 3rd world countries.

So why are statistics for depression so noticably higher for middle-class 1st world people per head of population... when compared to such large amounts of people who are obviously dealing with much harsher lives?

Interestingly, also suicide rates in these poor neighbourhoods and in 3rd world countries are so low that they are described as "statistically insignificant" and yet with the 1st world middle-classes those rates are increasing.

But why would these statistics be so different?

Shouldn't people living in places where life is cheap, racism is high, murders are common, access to food is unreliable and starvation is common have greater stress and things to worry about?

Shouldn't these people have higher depression rates and suicide rates and not lower?

Why do you believe this is? What is the difference? Why would it be this way?

[Unbeliever]

This one is about those "cringe" moments that people with depression people always experience that are so tiring.

Most people with persistant depression have experienced from people around us who just have no idea what it is like, some painfully unhelpful advice.

Such as the "Just get over it" default response so common from the uninitiated... (cue internal silent "groan").

However, the one for me that always bothered me the most was the slightly less common but still astronomically upsetting...

"You shouldn't be sad, think of all the people in the world worse off than you are" (or some similar variant).

I can only speak for myself, but this comment only ever succeeds in making me feel significantly worse every time someone says it to me.

This "sadness" that I carry inside me is not something I would ever wish on another person. I don't want to share it, or spread it around and if I somehow had the choice to be free of it by magically transferring it to someone else... I would definitely choose to keep it. Depression is not a burden I would choose for anyone else to carry.

So why exactly would I be happier knowing that there are people in the world even SADDER than I feel? How is that something worth celebrating? Am I meant to feel better because... "at least I'm not that poor person over there".

Being happy that I am not as unfortunate as someone else is just not something I can do without feeling like an absolute... *(insert self-derogatory insult here).

This comment never fails to upset me.

So, what about you? What comment has someone told you that does the opposite of helping you?

Feel free to share...

[Forrest]

Hi Unbeliever and Pepper. This is my first time responding to someone else's thread and I haven't even read around that much either so I hope my thoughts aren't too redundant or inconsiderate. I haven't read the previous thread you mentioned but your questions about the depression epidemic (and the implied liberty in your invitation to share POV) is something I have a lot of theories on and without a good place to vent them previously I found it a little too irresistible. Where do I even start?

Post script: After writing this, I have to admit, when you think about it all at once, some of the thoughts that try to answer the question are depressing in and of themselves. Perhaps anyone feeling particularly vulnerable might like to postpone reading on until they are doing a bit better. I have used too many characters so will have to post in sections. I have made 7 points all together.

-Forrest;

First of all,
1.) ...there are so many different things that are meant by the word "depression". There is depression the emotion, (feeling a bit flat) depression the experience (like a grieving period after a loss for example) depression the illness (with specific symptoms laid out in medical terms) and depression the symptom of another illness altogether, with both physical and psychiatric examples. (For example you can experience depression because you have lost your legs and are more housebound, or can experience depression as one of the symptoms of PTSD and so forth.) Depression can be due to circumstances or experiences, genetics and or/chemical imbalance or a combination of these and other factors.
My point is that one reason it might seem like there's more depression than ever before is that there are so many different things that we are calling depression now (I'm not saying each of those things aren't depression, I'm just saying it covers such a wide scope of definitions and experiences) and a greater awareness of them. There may have been an awful lot of depression around the world in the past that simply flew under the radar or wasn't known or even understood even to those experiencing it.

2.) Modern technology and medicine means we're living longer and reproducing more easily and the world is possibly more populated than ever before. I say possibly because this is just my own speculation that "seems" like it's probably true. I have no idea what the facts are in this regard, but if it's true there's a bunch of things it probably means;

To be continued...

[Forrest]

(2) a.) Genetics that might have otherwise been wiped out by natural selection are being passed on and reproduced over and over again. I'm not saying anything Hitler-esque! In fact I'm not saying anything at all, at least in terms of what the "answer" is or anything that suggests people aren't entitled to live. I'm just saying what I think has happened. C-sections and other medical procedures that allow babies to live that might have otherwise never been born might mean that the world just keeps filling up with all manner of genetic code as well as the continued passing down of circumstance conditioning or "depression culture" if you will, (from parents who are depressed) which can be inbuilt into perspectives or behaviours that condition people as they grow up. Again, not saying anything about what it means in terms of what to do about it or trying to guilt trip any depressed parents! Just speculating on why what is may be.

b.) An over-crowded world in and of itself can be depressing. Less focused attention is afforded to the need of each human being in a structural sense as the masses have to be somehow catered to in government policies, economies are stressful and frightening under the weight of such a complicated dynamic etc. I’m sure some governments are doing the best they can and I’m sure the mental effort it takes to even approach the task must be overwhelming to say the least and maybe making some of our leaders depressed too. On the flip side of being overpopulated, the pressure there is to be unique and how virtually impossible that is makes a depression epidemic seem only logical too.

c.) More people in the world in general is going to mean that are more depressed people just by simple ratio distribution. (For example, say it’s always been so that 1/4 of the people are depressed. If there are four people, it’s only 1 person who is depressed. If there are 16 people, there will be 4 people who are depressed. If there are more total people, the ones experiencing problems are going to be greater in numbers too.) I have no idea what the stats are so this could be irrelevant (like if the stats are measured via percentage.)

To be continued...

[Forrest]

(2) d.) A greater world population means that treatment becomes less individualised and thorough. There just plain aren’t enough doctors (especially ones that understand MI or do a good job of helping) to take care of everyone that needs it. I know they’re doing their best. And everyone that needs help should absolutely seek it and take what’s available. My point though is that funding can be difficult and time can be scarce, which can create cracks for people to fall through and an overall sense of hopelessness when looking for treatment. Seeking treatment can be frightening and uncomfortable enough, and I believe many people who need it are already barely feeling strong enough to go on, let alone face all the red tape of treatment. This could mean many who need treatment go without.

3.) The world is getting older.

a.) The older the world gets, the more history it has. The more history it has, the more there is for society to try to be mindful of, not to mention learn at school! Wisdom from experience is handy, but there has to be a point where it must get overwhelming to have to “think this way, don’t think that way, do this, not that, but don’t do it like this, make sure you remember that, it’s important to acknowledge blah blah etc.” This can be overwhelming and increase general stress.

b.) An older world and more people in it means more technology, more products etc. Of course there are countless benefits to this but also countless perils that mean more stress and more ways to destroy ourselves and much greater access to those means of self-destruction. TBH I don't know much about where the world is at in terms of reacreational drugs compared to the past. But I know they can trigger issues too. (But there's plenty of other vices too.)

4.) Food is not really food anymore! Do you have any idea what we’re even eating these days? Some of the stuff we put into our bodies is not doing us any favours and it’s amazing what an impact that can have on MH. Not saying a good diet is necessarily a cure-all but it sure helps. After watching a few Netflix docos on the subject I feel there is plenty of evidence on this.

5.) The weather. Sorry to go environmental (mostly because it can come off political and I’m really not looking to start a debate) but honestly it’s really cold and stormy tonight and it’s officially spring. I swear the seasons have shifted by at least a month since I was a kid. That’s gotta do something to people’s inner whatevers.

TBC...

[Forrest]

6.) Caffeine and sugar. Hear me out here. I’m not just saying that those things are bad for you (and they probably are) but, most of first-world society lives on them. That means that they’re functioning at an unnatural level. And then that level becomes the standard for productivity in business and society’s general expectations. This creates a loop of forced dependency where we can actually be punished by society for trying to be healthy.

7.) Brain tug-o-war. Advertising! It’s everywhere. You can’t leave the house or flip on a device without being constantly bombarded with messages trying to brainwash or convince you of one thing or another. And most of it contradicts something you’ll see somewhere else. It’s mentally exhausting. Even if you try to ignore it. Personally I think it’s mentally abusive. I understand why it’s necessary, and I’m not trying to peg anyone as evil. I’m just saying, the world is heavy and loud and rude. I think it makes total sense that so many people experience some kind of mental kickback.

I could probably go all night so I guess 7 is a good number to stop on.

-Forrest