Reasons for living?

[Chibam]

I had a question for the "your questions answered" page, but apparrently you need to ask them through the forums, so I hope I've got the right forum. Sorry if I haven't.

This site addresses the question "why commit suicide" and basically says that the answer or answers to this question are largely unknown or only partially understood.

Could you please offer some insight into the opposite side of this issue? Could you please explain why people who oppose suicide choose to continue living rather then not live anymore?

For some people, this question is as mystifying as the question of why someone would commit suicide seems to be for you, and I'd imagine that groups that are so resolute that life should always be prolonged rather then ended, such as your own, would be able to shed some light on this issue.

I'm truly sorry if this question offends anybody. That is the last thing I'd ever want to do. But I believe it needs to be asked, and more importantly, answered.

Thank you.

[AGrace]

Hi Chibam,

Welcome to the forums.

I wanted to start by saying, if you or anyone you know is thinking about suicide, or is really struggling to find a reason to continue living then please contact Beyondblue, Lifeline, or 000 in an emergency/crisis. There is help and support available.

If you are merely posing your question from a philosophical point of view, then I would like to ask if you have done any research on this topic?

I've lost a boyfriend to suicide, and have, in the past made a number of attempts on my life. I hope that gives me the right to be able to respond with what is just my opinion.

I wouldn't say I am pro or against suicide as I don't think that is any way to discuss this particular topic.

Life is a gift, a blessing. For some it is taken away too soon for reasons beyond their control.  For others it becomes too difficult to continue. If I was to give some reasons for it's value, I would say:

Continuing, or choosing to live, offers opportunities. There's plenty of support available for people who are struggling, and there is no problem too big to solve.

Life offers hopes, dreams and chances to do things like study, travel, make connections with others, experience family, children, partners, friends, careers, to turn hobbies into something greater, to accomplish things, to give to others, to feel love and the gamut of other emotions, to ponder thoughts, to ask questions, to learn, develop, and grow.

There are so many incredible wonders of our world that are worthwhile experiencing and if possible seeing. There is faith, spirituality, that sense of being a human and not knowing how or why we are here, but knowing that we are, there's even the 7 wonders of the world.

I hope that I have given an appropriate answer.

AGrace

[Chibam]

Hi AGrace,

Thanks for the friendly welcome and responding to my question.

In answer to your question, I've long been trying to get answers to (or researching, as you put it) this matter, but it's hard to get past the negativity towards suicide. People who weigh in on this matter seem to be too busy generating bad press for suicide to take the time to say anything in favor of the alternative.

I've thought long and hard about your response. I'm having trouble understanding it because the impression I've gotten from the people who encourage survival is that they consider the points you raise to be irrelevant to the question of whether life should be prolonged or not. If these things are removed from someone's life, or if there is no chance of them occurring, then the community’s stance on the matter of that person's survival remains unchanged.

For example, say someone asks why they should continue to live and their community or mental health consultants tell them "because of your career" (one of the reasons to live that you note). Now suppose that person loses their career, as we so often hear about happening in droves whenever a big company decides to make cuts. So this hypothetical person has lost their career - their reason to live - yet the same people who previously told them that they should keep living because of their career will now almost certainly tell them that they should keep living without it - to do otherwise would be wrong. This would seem to invalidate their earlier assertion that the person's career was a reason to live as the community stance regarding whether or not this person should survive remains unaffected by the career's presence or absence.

This scenario seems to hold true for every item on your list. In fact, I've encountered many examples of people who have either lost items on your list, or who are distraught that they have no genuine prospect to ever possess them, and yet having others assert to them that the absence of such things has no bearing on the question of whether their life should be continued.

The people who promote survival and discourage suicide don't seem to think that things like these matter. Not really. What I want to know is what does?

[AGrace]

Hi Chibam,

I'm sorry to have caused you confusion.

I'm also yet to meet any trained therapist that suggests that the above mentioned aspects of life weigh no bearing on whether a person chooses life.

Firstly I would say in response to your example if a person loses their career, have they not still got a billion other reasons to continue living? Secondly if a person loses their career, do you really think that disqualifies them from regaining another form of employment?

I think your question is very personal to the individual. I also don't think that therapy for suicide prevention is about convincing someone to live, it's about helping them manage their urges to do the opposite, so that they don't reach a point of intent or action.

You mentioned that the people who promote "life" and discourage suicide don't seem to think things like this really matter, what have you found that they think matters?

I can tell you during a phone call to Lifeline, all of the above was spoken about with me.

As I mentioned, I can only offer my opinion. What is yours?

AGrace

[white knight]

Hi Chibam,  a warm welcome here to discuss this topic.

As Agrace eluded to, this is subjective. The same as voluntary euthanasia is and belief in God for that matter. It is thoughts and decisions for the individual. However I'll try to answer this question of the positive- as to why we shouldnt think of suicide as an answer.

A superb comment was also from Amber...."there is no problem too big to solve" So on that, if there is no unsolvable problem, why would one want to go down the path of suicide?

But I have a few reasons why no one should go down that terrible demise.

Love and care for others. This includes consideration for your loved ones whoever they may be. It is likely a lot to ask someone that has that dark frame of mind to step back to consider the heartbreak they would leave behind. By the way this happened to me many years ago. I stepped back to think about my young daughters 7 and 4. Yes it saved me. I have had a brother and an uncle take their lives. Them days we didnt know there was any mental illness in the family.

Chances of recovery.  Meaning the possibility to lead a fruitful and rewarding life. Some of us, like myself, have only gone down the road to planning or attempting suicide once. One saddest of all occasions, never for it to return...ever. So if this hypothetical person can jump over that hump, he or she might well never get back there again. Surely that is a reason for not going down that road.? So what about those that go down the road multiple times? My thoughts on that are....each time could be the last time.

There are likely many more reasons. But I'd like to throw one in here on a personal basis.  Once when I was really low mood and negative about my future I decided that if life with humans didnt work out, I would dedicate my life to the welfare of animals. My daily work would be saving them, caring for them etc and my contact with humans would be reduced to a bare minimum.

So I had planned a purpose for living. If Mr hypothetical has no purpose in life and is on tragedy road then he needs to create a purpose to survive. That purpose ideally should be to assist people or animals in some way.

And that sums it up for me. We have been put on this earth for a purpose and that purpose is not to remove ourselves from it while there are others out there that could do with a helping hand.

I hope I've answered your question. I had to do some real thinking on this one.

[Snoman]

Chibam,

It seems to me that life is a strong force that wants to continue despite the odds.  Even without an apparent reason to live, people want to live.  I don't know that there has to be a particular thing to live for - just to to be alive is enough.

I have told my wife that if something ever happens to me, do not turn off my life support system.  I want to find my way through whatever it is.  I want to survive no matter what the struggle.

I remember a story of a man who had been in a small aircraft accident and it left him unable to move or breathe for himself.  The damage was permanent.  He couldn't communicate except through blinking an eye.  He told the nurse that he was going to walk out of the hospital by himself before Christmas.  He retrained himself to breathe and had to fight the doctors to be taken off the ventilator.  All through the year, he fought with his body, his mind and the doctors to get better.  He did walk the 3 steps to cross the hospital threshold.

His will to live was strong.  Probably no stronger than anyone else's.  He also had the mental determination to pull it off.

I would like to think my mind would be strong enough to accomplish the same.

Yet earlier this year, my depression took me to another place.  Somewhere where my will to live was struggling to maintain the upper hand.  Strange that I can see what appears to be the two extremes. 

For me, they are not opposites.  At my worst moments, I still had a will to live.  The other feeling didn't remove that, it was just stronger.

Sno

[Neil_1]

Hi there Chibam

Thanx for providing this post and wow, I've found all posts fascinating – and not in a morbid way either.

One of the arrows in my quiver of depressive thoughts – “what is life?”   “Why are we here?”  “What’s it all about?”

I’ve seen death of loved ones to me – a brother who was 29yo – a father who was 84yo – I wanted neither of them to die;   they didn’t want to die either.  The first was through a terrible accident – the 2nd was through leukemia.  And I guess out of that, that’s why I pose those questions & they’re bloody hard to answer.

There are so many people on this planet who experience bad times but can manufacture their lives to continue going forward and not be overly affected by tragic circumstances.  But then of course, there’s so many of us who are affected by bad things OR there’s so many of us who may not even have experienced anything tragic, but are equally traumatised and affected in their own personal ways and their own private hells.

I think the thing about suicide (own opinion) is that it’s so discouraged by others is that “others” simply do not want people to die – by any form – be it tragedy, an accident, a disease (& you know, that one can fall under suicide as well) – death via a disease – the disease known as depression.

Again, I think that with all the items listed by Amber (who as she said obtained most of them through her own private battle when she phoned Lifeline).  These things that are given out to try to discourage a person from taking their own life.  To promote something in their thoughts processes that just might trigger something to stop them from taking their life.  I know, I’ve talked a friend out of taking their own life over the phone – traumatic to say the least, but the end result for both of us was one of a massive HIGH.  She still lives & we both know that it was due to that phone call.  No regrets, no disappointments;  just relief.

 Why relief – for me this is so she can now continue to live, breathe & to continue in this life for a longer period of time – because for me, we only get one shot at this.  One shot – then when it’s done, (another arrow for me) it’s done.  It’s like you feel when you get put under for an operation.  NOTHING.  You don’t dream, everything is turned off & that’s it.  Nothing else.  Just my thoughts & wow, I don’t know if I’ve taken your thread & turned it all around or not.  Just thought I’d weigh in here.

Neil

[Struggler]

Chibam

Very good topic.  Like most people here I struggle with a range of emotions everyday.  Although I am far from feeling suicidal, one question I ask myself frequently is:  

What Is The Meaning Of Life? 

I have no answer to my own question.  By the way, I don't believe in god.  I think religions are codswallop. 

Struggler

[white knight]

Hi Chibam,

Struggler has posed a very good phrase "what is the meaning of life"?

Without a meaning, a purpose, someone might not have a will to live. Add to that any mental illness that causes confusion or hurt, or anything negative and painful and you have a sad road ahead.

We dont know much about the reasons some take their lives. Only from those that havent succeeded. But I should imagine that it isnt rocket science. It's more to being decisive over problems that were too hard to overcome.

My comment were levelled at the possibility that the person doesnt see a clear and better road ahead. Have all avenues been exhausted? Have all medicines been tried? Have all of the best medical staff been consulted? Has that person confronted his/her people they find challenging? Has that person tackled the issues that they find problematic like work issues? Have they seen their life problems in a realistic manner or have they been blown out of proportion? have they sort help at all?

So many questions, so few answers. So they might not have a meaning or appreciation for life. It's our job, all of us, all human beings, to care for others and sense if their is a need for intervention as a friend, to block that road to which they walk. To stop them in their tracks, hold them, comfort them, turn them around gently and point them in the right direction and run. Run with them into the sunlight.

Too unreal? Too unrealistic? I dont think so. For life should be valued and cherished. Life in invaluable. Priceless. And that includes all creatures.

The meaning of life is to preserve life.

[White_Rose]

Hello Chibam

I find this thread fascinating, as it appears does everyone else. Thank you for starting it. I hope you are still reading with us.

As others have commented, there is a huge social taboo on taking your own life. Why we have this taboo I have no idea. Where did it come from? I suspect it is such an ancient imperative that the origin has been lost in time. My reasoning is that every life was precious and necessary to the survival of the group. If someone died unnecessarily, by suicide, it would put the rest of the group at greater risk.

In many ways this is still the case. There is, statistically, a greater risk of suicide in a family where someone else has taken their own life. So does taking your own life give someone else 'permission' to take theirs? Is this what happens in families?

We all know that death from any cause results in sadness and pain for family and friends. So perhaps another reason for a suicide taboo is to prevent this unnecessary pain. Sounds selfish? Maybe! But this type of sadness can in itself cause depression which spirals into suicide. So there is a real possibility of a knock-on effect.

We are all role models to some extent for others. So as above, do our actions allow others to do the same as we do? There is much said in the media about sport stars who demonstrate unacceptable behaviour. These people are held up as role models for their fans. If they suicide what will be the message for those who follow their example? The suicide of Robin Williams has been legitimized because he is such a well known person. Is it possible that fans can become so distraught by his death that they copy him?

The person who wants to die is filled with grief and pain. All of us who have attempted suicide or seriously considered it know this. Life is a complete blackness with no possibility of another type of existence. And speaking from personal experience, that pain is excruciating. The saddest part is that the person truly believes this existence is all that is left to them.

The old coroners verdict was suicide while the balance of the mind was disturbed. And this is an accurate description. The suicidal person has completely lost touch with reality. Those who survive their suicide attempt(s) invariably go on to lead far happier lives. This is a case when society's wisdom is necessary to help the person through an excruciating time and why depression and other mental illnesses need so much more exposure and help.

LING