Perfectionist vs OCD

[The_Possum]

What's the difference between the two?

[Guest_9809]

Hi Possum. There is a fairly distinct difference actually. I have an issue with OCD myself, which I had once thought was perfectionism. My psych has helped me to differentiate between the two.

Perfectionism is a practical pursuit of focusing on the high quality implementation of something that is rational. It can get a little out of hand when taken to an extreme and not implemented in a balanced way.

OCD is an anxiety disorder where someone is triggered by something that is not rational. Once triggered it results in a huge amount of anxiety until a compulsion is met. The compulsions are even less rational than the triggers and have very negative consequences.

For example, a perfectionist may want to keep the house "perfectly" clean. Sometimes they may get a little out of control with cleaning or tidying more than they need to in order to satisfy their perfectionist standards. They are likely to gain some satisfaction when people comment on what a lovely clean house they have. The negative consequences could be that they are being a jerk to others in the house who are more messy than them.

A person with OCD might have organizing triggers that force them to scrub the tiles in the kitchen, even if they are already clean, simply because they discover that one of the spice bottles in the rack are facing the "wrong" way. The obsession may cause them to miss important meetings, because their OCD does not permit them to leave the house until they have scrubbed all the north facing tiles three times and the west facing tiles four times. A person with OCD will most likely expierence self loathing if caught scrubbing the tiles.

I hope that makes sense The Possum. Out of interest, have you been diagnosed with OCD or perhaps believe you experience the disorder?

Taurus

[The_Possum]

Thanks Taurus for your reply, I appreciate it. To be honest I'm a little tired of labels.

I'm not sure if I have OCD. I don't believe I do, I think I'm a perfectionist. But my psychologist has raised this and I honestly can't see it.

I am recently diagnosed bipolar ii. At the moment I'm going through some difficult personal situations causing a lot of stress and triggering some bipolar issues, so am in therapy working through them.

One of the things noted about me is that I am a perfectionist. In that academically I strive very hard ie had to get A grades, High distinctions or distinctions at uni.

Work wise I'm a high performer, very results oriented leading teams to achieve or surpass targets etc etc

And when it comes to people, I have a knack for been everyone's go to person to resolve their problems and I actually make it my mission to do so and will not stop until I have resolved their issue for them.

At the moment my mum is ill with cancer and I have researched every clinical trial and drug available in the world. Her diagnosis actually triggered a hypomanic bipolar episode for 4 days where I stayed up for 4 days and didn't sleep reading journal articles trying to find drugs that would help her. Anyway I obviously plummeted into depression after that which is what happens with bipolar. I'm still stuck in it weeks later.

I've been told I'm too empathetic and shouldn't be taking on everyone's problems and I can't save the world etc etc But I feel if I have a gift or ability to help others then I should use it to help them and not let them suffer. In my mother's case for example no one in my family have the ability to read, understand or able to research this stuff. I can though, so I feel it my duty.

When asked about my household I said my house is a mess, I haven't been able to keep it tidy and it doesn't interest me as I'm not very domestic at the best of times.

I'm also not sleeping and having bad insomnia or when I do sleep it's bad nightmares. I end up just playing on my phone during the night which makes things worse. When asked why I do this. I said I'm bored and usually just flip through photos on Instagram. I then was asked if it was some kind of compulsion to check instagram? Well I don't think I'm the first person to use their phone during the night on social media when they are bored and can't sleep. I've since removed my phone from my room entirely at night. Seeing it's apparently a thing.

Does this sound like OCD?

[Guest_9809]

The Possum. Firstly, I am not a professional, so this is purely my own viewpoint, based on what you've told me and my own experience with OCD. From what you have just described it sounds more likely that you are a perfectionist, and not someone with OCD.

You are a high achiever and expect exceptional results, typical of a perfectionist. At the same time you are also going through a highly stressful time with your mother's diagnosis. Your concern for her and your subsequent need to research and find possible treatment options for her, is very admirable. With your bipolar, together with a personality leaning towards perfectionism, it is typical to lapse into a period of depression.

Just a few things to help distinguish between perfectionism and OCD:

Perfectionist - triggered by something rational. OCD - triggered by something not rational.

Perfectionist - sense of accomplishment. OCD - no satisfaction gained from performing their rituals.

Perfectionist - personality trait. OCD - anxiety disorder.

Perfectionist - voluntary desire to make everything perfect. OCD - thoughts, urges and impulses are unwanted and involuntary.

Perfectionist - practiced habits are rewarding. OCD - practiced habits are distressing.

Perfectionist - practice habits which compliment their lives. OCD - practice habits which have a detrimental impact on their lives.

Perfectionist - views their habits in a positive light and are happy to keep them. OCD - view their habits as a nuisence and would gladly be rid of them.

Perfectionist - practice good habits they've developed using strength of character. OCD - engages in specific habitual behaviours as a means of relief from thoughts, urges and impulses.

In summary: People with OCD are suffering from a disorder that has an adverse effect on their ability to function properly. Where as people who are perfectionists, rely on their good habits to improve their lives and the lives of others.

People who have OCD usually need treatment to help them overcome the worst of their compulsions and learn to cope with their thoughts and compulsions. Perfectionists may go overboard on occasion, but it does not interfere with their ability to function in their daily lives

It is interesting to note that some OCD sufferers go on to develop a perfectionist mentality. It is thought that this is an attempt to help them gain a better sense of control over their disorder.

Btw, its great what you are doing for your Mum.

Taurus

[The_Possum]

Thanks for all this. It is so helpful.

My husband and I didn't think it was an OCD issue.

I am seeing the psychiatrist soon for my bipolar meds and insomnia issue so I'll raise it then too.

I'd hate to think she will go off writing a letter of my condition when it's not true. It's a new psych I've only seen her 4 times so she has only known me since mum has been sick.

Thanks so much for the time you've taken. I hope you are travelling well too x

[Guest_9809]

Hi The Possum, my pleasure, and glad to have been able to help.

I hope your upcoming appointment with your psychiatrist goes well. And as for the new psych, it takes a while for you to get used to them, and they you. Its still early days.

Thanks for asking ... personally I have been doing it pretty tough for a while, but on the improve now thankfully. (-:

Stay well.

Taurus

[geoff]

hello The Possum, well Taurus has made so excellent comments and I want to add on to these confusing thoughts, as you might already know I've had OCD for 57 years, but someone with this illness can also be a hoarder, collecting any rubbish they find and storing it in their house or back/front yard thinking that one day it will be useful, much to the dismay of their neighbours.
Your ability to help anybody is an honour and a well distinguish one indeed, but it can also be related to your OCD, just as being a perfectionist is well known to be part of this illness, and it depends on how many times you look at the same photos on your Instagram, whether you have to look at any particular photo 2 or 4 times, that is people with OCD have to do things a number of times, my number is 4 times, but I can still it 6 or 8 times as long as I count to 4, strange behaviour I know but it's an illness we have.
The information from Taurus is amazing and so well laid out.
My last psychologist who I only went to about 6 times believed that I didn't have OCD, and actually queried why I did have depression, because there doesn't seem to be any reason why, and that I shouldn't be taking any AD's or any other medication, because he believed it could all be controlled by the mind, that's when I finally stood up and walked out.
Just remember that some psych's have different opinions, some you may agree with and definitely some who are just after the pay cheque.
I'm really pleased the two of you have had this discussion, and good luck for the both of you, I will be following this thread. Geoff.

[The_Possum]

Thanks Taurus and thanks Geoff.

Geoff thanks for your insight too. I appreciate that and can see the fine line between both conditions and how they may overlap.

Whilst I do all these things and go the extra mile, I don't repeat any one activity.

For example with instagram I scored throw quickly just liking every photo (I basically do it to keep followers happy haha and to stay active).

With research and helping others, yes I will sit at the computer until 2am reading everything I can find on a topic so the next day I'm equipped to help properly or report on my findings. But it's not repetitive or reading the same article over, it's usually skimming through and highlighting and moving on to the next.

When I can't sleep at night and play on my phone, it's usually because I'm just bored to be honest and I'm hoping I'll just fall asleep by looking at stuff. I scroll through instagram photos, chat to friends on messenger that may be awake or other side of the world, reply to emails or send emails to friends, read news articles or play sudoku. Basically anything really. But apparently the light from the phone is probably making my insomnia worse and so is the stimulation. So I've now removed my phone from my bedroom and I have a little alarm clock.

The psychiatrist appointment is next week so my bipolar and insomnia will be discussed.

I'm really concerned of this new psychologist after only 4 visits making such a big assumption. She says next week she will be writing a letter to my GP and psychiatrist. And to be honest I don't want her to if she is going to label me with more conditions that I don't even believe I have and neither do the people I live with. That will then sit on my file permanently and I think that is unfair. Especially from four visits.

Social media over usage is an epidemic world wide, the stats pretty much show everyone is obsessed with it. Especially younger people. If I'm up in night there's at least a dozen people I know on Facebook who are also up and we have the most stupid chats. So I guess they must be OCD.

I'm basically sick of psychologists. My last psychologist was good but changed her work hours to only a day week which I couldn't make, half the time was on leave. I stopped seeing her, now this one has come up with these claims in 4 sessions. Mind you instagram seemed to be her trigger point for the OCD we only talked about that in the last consult. So she has made the assumption after a one hour conversation

[geoff]

hello The Possum, thanks for getting back, and if you don't have to or need to look at the photos in an unusual way, like someone who has OCD then that's great, so it's rather confusing but whatever she writes and sends to your GP and psychiatrist, you are entitled to disagree with them, so if you want another opinion then do so.
Can I just make a point and this may not be the situation in your case, but I want to say people who need to check their door locks 3 or 4 times when they know they're locked have OCD, so I wonder whether we can compare this to being a perfectionist in a strange way, like making sure everything is in order, but I found this when I googled 'OCD and checking locks is this being a perfectionist', where there are some very interesting sites to read, if you have time. Geoff.

[The_Possum]

That's interesting and some good points raised too.

In terms of having everything order, for me it's more that I want to be prepared for the meeting so I want my file to have the relevant documents in it so that when I turn up I'm not scrambling for notes.

Whether they are neatly ordered and in a certain manner is really the question and no I really don't care how the papers are arranged or if the hole punch isn't straight or if one is paper clipped and one is stapled or whatever.

So I personally do not think I have OCD and this woman should really speak to my family who witness my behaviour daily before she goes making the assumption. And this I am surprised of.

When my psychiatrist diagnosed me bipolar, he interviewed my husband separately on my behaviour to gain a full picture. As well has having me keep a mood log for 2 months straight. So he was absolutely sure.

This woman has done none of that. Just jumped on my of instagram when I can't sleep.