dealing with condescension

ekatakekatakekat · ‎13-12-2016

were young so we cant possibly know how were feeling

- every doctor/professional/adult advice giver/person online/person irl you will talk to about mental health

at least, this is my final conclusion from the limited experience ive had with people

im putting this here because im 100% sure its bc of my age that ive had this experiences

the condescension is real, whether to deliberately be patronizing, or from a genuine position of caring, its so so annoying

a triage somehow, they thought i was 28, tho i was 18, which was a kick to my already non existent self esteem, and they were asking intrusive questions & annoying, but nice i guess overall. then when they were reading back my info & i heard 28, i was like "what? no. im 18" and it was like a light bulb 180 flip, they went from "how are you feeling?" to "this is how you are feeling"

from asking me questions to telling me answers

headspace was like this too, yes i was older than the average clientele, but i was talking about how i was feeling and she was pointing to pictures of clouds with frowny faces asking me to pick the one i related to. look i know it helps some, but that's the main tactic they use for all; assume they dont know what its liek to be in our own heads

this site is great, it means a lot to me even tho im too scared to post a lot, but the replies....its a lot of older people. ok sure not many 15-20 yo running around with psychology degrees to help sad kids. but said adults, who im sure mean well, dont always want to listen

(i rewrote this a lot bc it sounded agressive)

I write "i have no one" and the reply includes "talk to friends and family"

i write, "i have nothing" you read "i think i have nothing"

posts where people mention terrible anxiety about phone calls & people & talking about feelings and the replies are "ring & make an appointment with a gp" like thats not realistic advice.

theres a lot of faux positivity & cliche platitutes, a lot of condescension & old people to talking down to younger people, even if they dont mean to & it makes it so much harder to get any real tangible help or advice

i dont post a lot, but ive read so many different posts, but they all have the same replies, like all of us are monolithic & its just another case of depressed teen, but a few more years added on somehow makes ur feelings valid?

Guest_322 · ‎14-12-2016

Hi ekatakekatakekat,

This is a really thought provoking post. I need to organise a few things tonight so will get back to you later with a longer response (I just wanted to respond so your thread will be saved under my list). I'm 20 years old btw.

Dottie x

Zeal · ‎14-12-2016

Hey,

This is certainly a unique post, and a thought-provoking one at that. I have been seeing doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists for my anxiety/OCD since I was 13. Now I'm 23, and while I've learned a lot about myself and about the nature of mental illness, there is still so much I don't fully understand (or understand at all). Last month I finished an undergraduate psychology degree at uni, and now I'm in that awkward stage of waiting to hear back about postgrad while also tentatively applying for casual/part-time jobs.

It surprised me how differently the questions were framed by the professional when they found out you were a decade younger. I'm glad that you view this site as valuable, despite feeling that posts often follow a similar 'formula' and include similar advice. As a volunteer here, I have been aware of giving out similar advice to multiple people. I try not to, but it's hard when all we know about someone is contained within a small paragraph. Sometimes I will give general responses if it is on a topic I am less familiar with, or when I'm mentally tired. That is not intended to excuse it, but may help put it in context.

In terms of your comment about older people's opinions being construed as 'more valid' - I think it's more the case that they have often had more life experiences, and are more likely to have divested themselves of self-consciousness and feelings of naivety. These are just my thoughts....well, perhaps they're my ramblings!

If you'd like to talk more, you can post back here anytime!

Best wishes,

Zeal

Guest_322 · ‎14-12-2016

Hi again,

Now, I'm not sure if I'm your target audience for this or if you were hoping for people in an older age bracket to respond. Either way, here I am...

To state the blatantly obvious, you've had some really frustrating experiences with being patronised. You seem to have had more than your fair share.

I'm not sure if I can say anything particularly helpful but I can share some of my personal experiences.

Maybe I have just been luckier but I have had generally positive exchanges here on the BB forum.

But I have had my share of being talked down to- because of my age- in my offline life. For example, I've been doing some ongoing volunteer work (not for BB), and there was one man- another volunteer- in his 60s who used to make these sweeping generalisations about "young people today" (right in front of me too). I would have been 18 at the time. He used to really irritate me.

But then I realised that sometimes condescending remarks reflect more on the person making the remarks than the recipient of the remarks. Like it could reflect a fragile ego, lack of insight, poor interpersonal skills, narrow mindedness (which relates back to a lack of insight), etc.

So usually I would just keep my distance if I encountered (encounter) people like that at my volunteer gig, and reminded myself that their comments said more about them than me.

In saying that, there were also older people who treated me as an equal and did not talk down to me. I would just seek those people out and talk to them instead.

I guess what I'm trying to say is just as there are all kinds of people our age who behave in all sorts of different ways, there are also all kinds of older people. Yes, some will talk down to us but others won't. I mean, it's just that you've unfortunately only had bad experiences.

As you mentioned, sometimes it's unintentional and they mean well. Re: cliches and platitudes, I'm guessing it's generally delivered with good intentions (which I realise doesn't lessen your frustration). I also suppose some people genuinely believe in the words/phrases that you perceive as cliches and platitudes. So there's the matter of different perspectives.

Overall, I've experienced both sides of the coin in my offline life. Sorry, I'm not sure if this is helpful/supportive in any way. I know my words probably don't lessen your annoyance. Hopefully, over time, you'll meet older people who talk to you as an adult and intelligent equal- they do exist.

Dottie x

romantic_thi3f · ‎15-12-2016

Hi ekatakekatakekat,

Thank you for your post. This one
definately got me thinking. I think the best way for me to respond is to
try and break it down because there's so many things you said that deserve
attention.

You talked about your experience in hospital
and that doesn’t seem fair to me and I’m sorry you had to experience that. It doesn't matter how old you are but nobody should assume they know
what you're feeling. If someone says that to you, I think that they don't
have the right skills. Nobody knows how the other person is feeling and
they shouldn't assume that they do.

I’ve been on the forums for a while and I
often say to people (of all ages) to talk to the GP or talk to friends and
family.

Even though this might sound obvious it’s
often not – we don’t know from the first post whether the person has talked
about this stuff with their GP before or whether they have friends or family
that they can talk to. We aren’t designed
to do it alone, so knowing about the person’s support networks can give us a
good idea of who can help them.

Some people often don’t realise that the
options is available to them.
Psychologists for years have been either too expensive or are for people
really struggling (self-harm and suicidal thoughts). Knowing that they are both accessible, free
(on Medicare) and for anybody is pretty important.

If someone doesn’t have friends or family that
they feel they can talk to or they don’t want to talk to their GP that’s okay
too.

Most of the time it’s about working out why
they might be hesitant in talking to their GP and if there’s something we can
say that might encourage them to do so.
Going to the GP is hard for anybody but it’s also worthwhile it that it
can give us the help we deserve.

I think for one of your posts I linked to
eheadspace and kids help line; as it's one of the few services for young people
that allow them to talk online. As for adults though, they don’t have things
like that except Lifeline which offers an e-chat service.

Also self-help – as this is a big difference
between adults and young people.

In my experience young people tend to know
less about depression and anxiety than older people, mostly because they
haven’t experienced it as long or they haven’t tried many techniques to work
through it. Things like mindfulness and
breathing exercises are often kind of ‘new’ for young people. Of course this is only some people and
everyone is different.

(part one)

romantic_thi3f · ‎15-12-2016

(part two)

I also find that adults can be more likely to
want to read books about therapies like cognitive behaviour therapy
(recognising/changing thoughts) and relationships, where as it can be too
boring or confronting for younger people.

Also articles; as things like flight or fight
response or nervous systems can be confusing if you’re not familiar with that.

Oh, and I think it’s all round easy to assume
because when someone first posts they might say that they’re struggling but
they don’t always say;
- how long they’ve been
struggling
- if they’ve been diagnosed
with anything (from a GP or Psychiatrist)
- what things they’ve tried
- how much they know about
their condition if they’ve been diagnosed with something
- what they’re going
through; is it relationships, work, school, finances,
- how what they’re going through
is affecting their mood and their life; are they skipping school/uni, not
sleeping, feeling low, drinking, doing drugs etc

Of course nothing is wrong with this as we
just appreciate the fact that people have reached out but it also means maybe
we don’t give people the answers or advice that they’re really looking
for. It also means that maybe we might
assume something.

I know I personally always want feedback; so
if something I’ve said isn’t helpful then let me know and maybe I can suggest something
else or know for next time so I don’t make the same mistake again.

Anyway this is super long, but yeah.

(part two)

ahw309 · ‎15-12-2016

Hi ekatakekatakekat,

As the others have said, this is definitely quite a thought-provoking post!

I am 17 and have experienced a little of the kind of condescension you're describing because of age, and that was mainly in school. This was during my lowest and hardest period and I felt extremely frustrated because I felt like no one was listening to me. It felt like everyone was telling me ‘your opinions and what you say your feelings are don’t really matter - you're just a child and I'm an adult, and I know better' (said a little nicer of course hahaha)

Even though I understand and agree that older people have more experience and wisdom, I didn't feel like my thoughts and desires regarding how I felt and what I wanted as a result of this were really respected. I know these people had good intentions and just wanted to help and wanted the best for me, but still, it didn’t make me feel very good, and it was pretty annoying!

With regard to the forum, I have tried to take into consideration everything said in a post when I have attempted to give help or advice to the very few people I did, and be really genuine. However, sometimes it is hard not knowing a lot about a person or their situation, and things like going to a GP or talking to friends/family are usually the best ways to go about dealing with a lot of the issues and hurt people describe.

But I do understand where you are coming from. I personally find making a phone call one of the hardest things to do, and if someone suggested to call a helpline, it doesn't seem like a very accessible option. In saying that though, I find comfort it knowing that there are numbers there if I ever really feel the need 🙂

I’m sorry that this isn't very helpful, but I just wanted to say I hear you! And I hope that you have better experiences with people who talk to you and respect you as equal (as Dottie said).

All the very best! 🙂

ekatakekatakekat · ‎15-12-2016

i wont reply to anyone specifically (but maybe indirectly is passive agressive? i dunno...) but even to this post, where im talking about condescension, the replies are

"oh im sorry youve had this experience :(....but this is why it was necessary/why you're wrong/why you misinterpreted it/why its not the norm/why its justified/why we do it"

which kinda validates my point

i do like it here tho 🙂 & thank u people for replying. makes me feel less weird about posting stuff knowing people aren't like "ok whats this got to do with anything why are you even here"

BluBelle · ‎16-12-2016

18 is a really hard age to be. You're too old for the real "youth" services which is usually 13-16 but most people still don't see you as a capable adult yet. At 18, I was at uni and living independently and working and handling my own mental health. My brother, on the other hand, was at home and basically still being a kid. Maturity levels vary from person to person, so I guess people default to kid-mode unless they know you really well. I don't know why, and I'm not making excuses for it. I do believe, especially here on BB, that it's motivated by genuine concern and kindness though. We're human, we mess up every now and then and say the wrong things and don't even realise it. A lot of people here have struggled with their mental health for 20+ years and have experiences we haven't had yet. I really respect that, and personally I take it as "here's what worked for me" rather than "I know better than you so you need to do this" even if they didn't word it in that way. None of us are doctors (I don't even think you're allowed to give medical advice here) we're just strangers trying to support each other. Some experiences are universal, some are unique so if advice seems a bit generic it probably is. People don't know what you've already tried, you know? They just want to help.

Guest_322 · ‎16-12-2016

Hi ekatakekatakekat,

What you're saying is fair enough and you have made your point. I appreciate your frankness.

I'm just wondering what suggestions you personally have regarding responses? I don't know...I just think it might be helpful if you told us your ideas. Hope that's cool.

Thanks,

Dottie x