Advice on relationship-y stuff and self-image

[Danioboy]

Hi folks!

Hope you're all doing ok.

So, I'll try to keep this relatively short (though in doing so I will leave out a bunch of the story).

About a year ago, I got friendly with this girl and developed feelings for her. I was going to ask her out, but wanted to know what my friends thought of her before I asked. Basically, no more than a week after I introduced her to my best friend he asked her out (I hadn't told him I was going to, etc.). This hurt a bunch but I kept it to myself for a long time, and I progressively got worse emotionally. Eventually I told them, which didn't really help me at all - in fact this made it worse. They were nice about it, and supportive, etc. (they were my two best friends at this stage).

Eventually, they stopped dating and she started dating another guy (who is now also one of my good friends).

I now don't know if I like her or not, I'm really confused - I guess I'll figure it out eventually - but I'm not over it by any means (though a lot better than I was).

I don't want to blame this completely, but I think it heavily influenced my poor/relatively unhealthy self-image. She is the only girl I have been this close to so I guess a part of me perceives her as a 'representation' of the female sex (which I know is not logical and is wrong in a number of ways). But anyways, I've never seen myself as anything close to society's standards of good looking, my friends are objectively much more attractive than I by these standards. This wasn't a problem before but is now.

Basically, it feels like I'm just feeling sorry for myself for not getting the girl, and I'm kinda convinced that I have no chance in the 'relationships' area due to the self-image issues (with the above story as 'evidence' of how incompetent I am in this regard).

Its a lot more complex then this, but anyway... any advice you could give would be greatly appreciated, or if you want me to clarify anything or give more details I am happy to do so.

I'll also say, recently I haven't been feeling too down, but thought it would be a good idea to talk about it.

Thanks 🙂

[Aphador]

I understand what you mean- not wanting the girl to think we care about them as much as we do. I used to do this too. I also used to ignore things that I mess up with people.

I can't really comment on the phobia situation- I feel like this is more the place of a psychologist or counsellor using CBT. I have been able to change a lot of my preconceived notions about the way I live my life through this way.

It's good that you are generally happier. It's a funny phenomenon of life- what we surround ourselves with will be how we feel day-to-day. Usually, when people read self-help with the intention of becoming better, they are more positive in day-to-day life, because they are always reading positive things. Joking about insecurities is a difficult thing for me to comment on. Often people seem to joke to avoid dealing with insecurities, which is a problem; however, you are in the process of dealing with them currently. Perhaps you are right that it is healthy and is one step closer to being able to talk about them openly! 🙂

[Aphador]

Once again- sorry that I wasn't here! How are things going these days in general and also with this girl?

There was other stuff that happened related to this that I don't want to talk about tonight as it will be uncomfortable to talk about, but if you could prompt me in your next reply I think it would be beneficial for me to get some stuff off my chest about that

There is no rush to get things off your chest. I will be here for when you feel comfortable to talk about it 🙂

[Danioboy]

Hi,
And, no problems, you don’t owe me anything
So I have started looking into the counselling provided by the uni I go to, I agree that its another tool at my disposal that I haven’t really explored… all things considered I’m still pretty new to this whole self-help thing, but I definitely think its helping me.
As to how I’m generally going in life now, I’m pretty happy. I’m getting pretty good grades at uni, and still have time to spend with friends and family. Very recently I realised that despite getting good grades and stuff, I don’t really have anything to show for it, but this isn’t a problem at this stage, this is kinda just making me redirect what I’m putting my energy towards creatively, etc.
As for the girl, I’m feeling pretty good about where we are at the moment; our friendship took a bit of a natural ‘hiatus’ because we both started uni this year. I think the break was good because it let me deal with my issues. Time has helped (and so has this). Our friendship is a lot healthier now, without a doubt.
I’m starting to hang out with her again this sem, and in the back of my mind I feel like there is a possibility that I will fall back to the place I was, but I’m not sure yet whether that will happen, so I’m going to play it out. I’ll see what happens, almost kinda interested to find out.
I’m still dealing with the self-image stuff, but it doesn’t seem nearly as significant to me as it used to, so that’s improving on the whole too.

[Aphador]

Dan, you are making enormous strides! All this stuff you said is really good 🙂

No matter what happens with the girl, this time you are more mindful of the situation. This will let you take a step back if you need- no problems on my end with rekindling a friendship, as long as you can be honest with yourself about your feelings 🙂

It's great that you are happy! I'm curious though- what do you mean by nothing to show for your grades?

Aphador 🙂

[Danioboy]

Hey Aphador,

I'm doing a Bachelor of Music (as well as some other stuff, but the BMus is my main 'priority'), and I've been getting pretty good grades in all of the units for that subject. What I meant was even though my grades are good I haven't released any music, etc. yet, like some of my peers have been doing; basically I haven't been putting what I have learnt to practice publicly yet and am thinking I should definitely try to do that more.

"Breaking Free Activity #8
Go back to the list of approval-seeking behaviors at the beginning of this chapter. Choose one of the ways you try to get external validation and do one of the following:
1) Go on a moratorium from this behavior. Set a period of time to stop doing it. Tell the people around you what you are doing. If you slip, tell a safe person about it. Use the slip as information about why, in that particular moment, you felt the need to get external approval.
2) Consciously do more of this behavior. This may not make logical sense, but it is a powerful way to explore any dysfunctional behavior. Observe how you feel when you consciously try harder to get external validation. "

I don't know which one to choose, and I'll be honest I'm not confident that I will do this step very successfully.

Would you be able to choose one and help me understand how I should act this out? Because for most of those behaviors I don't know how a person would do that stuff without becoming a 'bad person'.

Thanks

[Aphador]

Yep, so this is a hard step, both (1) and (2) work in slightly different things. (1) once you stop doing the activity, you notice how people treat you differently, and whether you like this or not. It's not about being mean to everyone, but not doing as much of the approval-seeking behaviour. (2) is a funny one- it's like if you try to curb a chocolate addiction from a child, you say: "okay well since you like chocolate so much, I guess you will have it for EVERY meal!" At first, the child would be excited, but then after 2 days, 3 days, however long, they will begin to feel sick watching everyone else eat normal food while they eat chocolate all the time. The idea is that you do the activity so much that you get sick. I think the first one is easier and more subtle to implement, so let's try that! Here are some ideas (remember, choose ONE)

- Being intelligent: In conversation with others, try admitting when you don't know something or are wrong about something
- Having a pleasant, non-threatening voice: try speaking with the back of your throat open, the voice coming from your chest, and speak nice and slow. Kind of like how you sing. Record yourself reading poetry and decide how to change your voice, then speak like this in conversation with people throughout the day
- Looking unselfish: try, for a day or two, saying no to everything. This one is a bit more extreme, but kind of fun to do. Instead of outright saying no, you could just say: no, I'm swamped right now and don't have time to do this for you.

How do you feel about these, are they difficult, or do you think you could choose one of them to do?

[Danioboy]

I think they're all kind of interesting...
- I would be most inclined to do the first one, it seems the easiest of the three, and maybe for that reason I should avoid that one, Im not sure. Thats where I will start though.
- I'm not entirely sure what I think of the second one; I don't see the utility of speaking with a deeper voice and I don't dislike my voice, so I don't predict much would change if I were to were to change my voice. But I guess the exercise isn't about what one predicts and is more about what you learn by actually changing your behaviour. Having said that I think the slowing down of my speech would probably be beneficial.
- I also like the idea of the last one.
I think actually bringing myself to do them will be the most difficult part. I will find it difficult to bring myself do actually apply these things when the opportunity arises. And I anticipate I will either consciously avoid doing the activity by thinking my way out of doing so, or unconsciously avoid doing it through anxiousness.
Perhaps I’ll start small and try to talk slower for the next couple of days and admitting I was wrong about something/didn’t know something and see what happens.
Thanks Aphador 🙂

[Aphador]

Yes, avoiding these would be normal- and it's okay if you don't succeed right away! We are in no rush 🙂

I guess it's just about consciously doing a task in an interaction- trying not to overthink it. It's like an experiment, you want to see how others change around you and how you feel yourself 🙂

[Jasjit]

Hi Danioboy!!

I completely understand relationships can always be challenging when we are just a minute late!! It is frustrating!! But from what you have said I think you are trying to find love, approval, or appreciation from outside - correct me if I am wrong.

I used to do that during my teens whenever we had year 8/9 social or ceremonies like year 12 formals or going to parties and early adulthood but what happened? I ended up getting frustrated, blaming myself, and felt miserable. Then I simply understood that I am relying on someone else for appreciation.

So, if love already exists within me why do I have to ask from the other person? When I understood this everything made sense, all of my expectations, desires, worries completely disappeared. My communication improved and people around me could a very blissful energy.

I achieved this by doing something for myself - self-exploration like, after constant rejections from school and uni life, I went on fat loss transformation and started doing meditation and yoga regularly. Now here I am enjoying every moment of my life.

[Danioboy]

Thanks heaps Jasjit!

Your support is appreciated.

Hope you're doing well 🙂