How is talking to someone supposed to help?

[sparkvark]

I'm hoping someone here can help me understand how this is supposed to work, because I really don't get it. I'm probably doing it wrong and/or have unrealistic expectations.

If I get to the point of trying to talk/write to a helpline of some sort about what's going on, it's because I'm having trouble dealing with some pretty intense feelings or thoughts. But the conversation hardly ever seems to be helpful with easing the feelings/thoughts and I more frequently end up feeling more isolated and upset.

I don't find it helpful to discuss things that have tried and failed to help with the feelings. I certainly don't find it helpful to hear a suggestion to talk to someone else. I'm not in the right frame of mind to discuss ways to "be kind to myself." I'm never in the right frame of mind to hear $10 Book Sale and Yahoo Answers reconstituted quackary about being positive. Heaven forbid I mention one slightly positive thing, because out bursts Captain Good Times Sunshine and suddenly that's the only thing the other person is capable of talking about.

But I don't know what would be helpful, so it leads me to think that nothing would in fact help and the only option is to just deal with it on my own.

Am I missing something or is that it?

[white knight]

Hi sparkvark, welcome.

I prefer the term "brainstorming". It us probably up there among the benefits while in a mental illness down period.

Coping with any mental illness necessitates many remedies for the best possible solution. These are...

Hobbies, sports, passion, interests (they help divert your mind), correct diagnosis, medication, best dosage if medication, fitness, environment, workplace, removing toxic people and so on.

Among the many recommendations I've had from other people views are- getting a second opinion (this led to a correct diagnosis..most important), 10 free psych appointments that I qualified for and going on daily gush oil tablets.

Put all those together and you have a significant contribution to my life.

Tony WK

[radiojammer]

I know where you're coming from sparkvark. It's such a pain to be told "be positive" when you're feeling down and you just cannot dredge up feelings of excitement because you happen to be alive and aren't dying of some insidious disease. I get told by people that I have a great life and a lot to be thankful for, yet they're not living in my shoes. Quite frankly I don't have a great life and resent people telling me I do! I don't like ringing helplines and having some faceless person listen to my problems. I do find it helps to talk to someone, but face to face, not on the phone. That is why I'd like to find some sort of support group where I'm with people whose lives aren't going so well, either. At least I'd know I'm not alone because I feel alone right now and have been for a long time. At my age it's too late to take up a sport even though I'd like to get more physical exercise, because it helps you feel good and keeps you fit. In summer I like to take myself for a walk but it's been so damn cold lately I find no enjoyment in that until the sun is shining.

If you had someone to listen to you who actually cares about you it can help to speak to someone like that but in your case you say it doesn't? Do you have anyone you can get out and do things with? It certainly helps to find something you're interested in to distract you from how you're feeling. Good luck and I hope you feel better soon.

[sparkvark]

Thanks for your input white knight.

You’re right about it being a combination of factors to get an overall solution.

I suppose I’m trying to focus on how specifically this one aspect is meant to work. My experiences with it haven’t been helpful (excluding forums like BB – I’m meaning more helpline-like talking in intense situations), and I don’t know if that’s just because my brain isn’t wired correctly or what.


Yeah radiojammer that’s pretty much what I mean. I recognise that some positivity isn’t always unwarranted in my situation, but there’s a time and place for it – when I’m feeling distressed just doesn’t meet that
criteria.

Do you think you could join a walking group? If there’s one in your area, it might be a good way to meet people and make that sort of connection while also getting a bit of exercise and motivation even when the weather is rubbish.

“If you had someone to listen to you who actually cares about you it can help to speak to someone like that but in your case you say it doesn't?”
Well there’s two issues with that:
1 – The person telling me to talk to someone else. I would have weighed up my options and decided that the helpline was the best place to try and get help in that moment, but their “help” is to suggest that I talk to
someone else instead. If the best option can only shunt me onwards then what point is there in any of it?
2 – I actually haven’t found it helpful talking to people who are in my life anyway. There’s only one person I’d consider talking to, but their reactions mean I’d spend more time reassuring them if I were to bring anything up.

I communicate more in text than voice. I have to be very desperate before I’ll consider picking up the phone, given the anxiety that comes with just a routine phone call. But if I am too frustrated with myself to form coherent sentences then what can I expect? Even this post is a giant mess.

[white knight]

Hi sparkvark,

Post is a mess? Actually I would call it challenging and I had to read the whole thread twice but who cares?.

You are here to help sort your hurdles out and we are trying to assist but if we don't "get it" that's OK, we are ones with mental emotional issues so not getting it is OK. So in summary, this place is a place of calm and peace, to see if you can find some comfort in sorting out some issues.

I hope others can chip in here to help out. Please be patient. I'll see if more opinions can be added.

Sometimes it takes a couple of replies from the OP before we get a grip on the picture.

As a talkative individual I find it naturally difficult to comprehend not being at ease talking on the phone. So I'm not the best person to answer.

Thanks for opening up. It isn't a mess....its actually interesting.

Tony WK

[geoff]

hi Sparkvark, when we feel as though our friend is the person to talk to because we have been close with them over the years, through thick and thin, but suddenly get a shock when they aren't of help what's so ever, disappoints us because they were the person who we thought would understand.
This happened with me as I thought my best man would be an ideal person to talk to about my depression, what a great disappointment that was, all I wanted to do was get up from the table and leave, so you can't be sure who you think would be helpful are indeed helpful.
You might be sitting on a park bench and an elderly person comes up and sits next to you and can pick that something might be upsetting you, so they begin a conversation, and after awhile have been more helpful than anyone else you have spoken to, but then after awhile you feel as though you're back to square one.
It is good that people can pick something you have said that was, well, a bit exciting, and then talk about this, but it's those dark secrets you have that need to be talked about as well, because these are why you aren't feeling well, and are always there at the back or front of your mind, so in other words both the good and the bad need to be discussed.
By dealing with these thoughts by yourself is in a way being in denial, so you need someone, anyone who you feel comfortable with or who you think you can trust, so when you are having a terrible time then you are able to pick up the phone and just say 'help me please'.
You can't be ashamed by talking incoherently, that just proves that there is something that is troubling you, so never take this as a weakness, it's not. Geoff.

[romantic_thi3f]

Hi sparkvark,

I think there's been some great advice here and agree with whiteknight in that there's a lot holistically we can do to manage depression including diet, exercise, social support etc.

One thing I would like to add is that if you are seeing (or talking) to a therapist who says "be positive" then it doesn't sound like that therapist is right for you. Yes - at the end of the day it is just us handling it on our own, but we don't need cliche statements about being positive or being kind to yourself to help us manage.

Part of therapy can be learning different strategies or coping tools to use yourself when you are struggling. This is not something that we can find on yahoo answers; but more so self-help tools like thought challenging and looking at fixed vs growth mindset (I can vs I can't). Having done therapy for a while I found it kind of amazing so see how much automatic negative thoughts I had without even realising. It might even go deeper into childhood or how certain experiences have changed your perspective on things. Every therapist is different and this is only a small section of what therapy could offer. Ideally, finding the right therapist will help find the right tools that would be helpful for you. Life coaching again is quite different in their strategy and can even be more flexible with walking groups or meeting in cafes.

[Dr_Kim]

Hi Sparkvark,

I am getting the sense from your post that you are really fed up with everything . Fed up with your own thoughts, fed up with not being able to deal with your thoughts , fed up with other people not giving what seems like good suggestions and maybe just fed up that you have to deal with any of it , including this damn forum!

If you are being “ bullied “ by your own negative thoughts, its no wonder you are sick and tired of them and starting to feel a bit helpless. You say you have “ intense feelings or thoughts” but I'm actually a little unclear what you might have… but you wonder if telling yourself "I’m ok" is enough to shut them up.

Ok , so lets get back to basics about treating mental illness or low self esteem . Good news is its treatable. Bad news is its a lot of hard work.

With Depression or Anxiety the treatment comes in 3 main arenas

1. Medication if its bad enough. Usually your GP or therapist make this call.

2. Cognitive challenging ( fancy words for therapy). This comes in many different forms - from standard CBT to ACT, Narrative therapy , Family therapy, Solution focused, Art therapy, Group therapy etc . Within each of these there are going to be people that you connect with and really “get” and others that just don’t gel . Part of the journey is finding your place and people in this maze.

2. Lifestyle stuff- exercise (study after study showing this is super important) , diet and sleep together with mindfulness.

The neurons in your brain are wired together in a way that is not helping you at the moment. Your thinking is in bad habits. Your job is to find ways to break the habits and make better ones. Breaking any habit is SO hard , ask any addict!! So expect a difficult journey…. find someone to help you . Try a number of people or types of paths until you find one that “speaks“ to you and then work work work …

You aren’t missing anything , you do have to do the work , but it doesn’t have to be alone . In fact its so much harder to try to do it alone . I wouldn’t.

[MarkJT]

Hey sparkvark, thanks for posting as like whiteknight, i am very talkative so you are educating me on what it is like for you and the challenges that you face.

In the early days of my mental health journey, I was experiencing regular suicidal ideations which were massively intrusive. I also got the "think positive" and I really struggled with the notion of trying to think positive when such intrusive thoughts where automatically entering my brain, so thinking positively was not really an option that i could handle. Although as i said earlier, i am quite chatty about it, this was something that i wasn't really wanting to talk about and really struggled with. I saw no, rightly or wrongly, reason that a help line or similar would be of assistance during these times.

What I did find out though was that one day i was given a five page document titled, "Thoughts are not facts". I did not read on word of the document other than the heading as i took so much out of that, i needed to more. I started to practice that when i had these type of thoughts that just because i was thinking it, does not mean that it is factual. Over time the thoughts have subsided and i have found that it works well.

I also tell this to myself when i start to get anxiety. Particularly on a train when it stops mid station, i hate it, hate it huge so get anxious. When the brain starts throwing around all different types of thoughts, i tell myself that it is not factual.

This is one of the things i have done done over the journey that has been of great assistance to me.

I so hope that you find the answers you are looking for.

[Just Sara]

Hi and welcome Sparkvark;

I totally get where you are; I've been there. I wanted people to 'get' me, make me better and tell me what to do. I just wanted to feel normal!

The reality though as Dr Kim says, it's hard work. There's been some great advice on this thread. I hope my suggestions don't overwhelm you.

One thing I realised, and this took me ages to accept, is that it's one step and one success at a time. I know that sounds cliche, but it's true. I was so confused and angry I couldn't be normal NOW!! I wanted instant gratification. The internal pain I thought would get the better of me.

Focusing on each day and even each moment in bad times, was the only way forward for me in the beginning. That meant med's to get me to a place where my thoughts could settle. Then I'd journal those thoughts and read them the following day and self assess. I asked myself relevant questions and tried to answer them myself. "Why's" are a trap by the way; too many variables. One valuable question that paved the way was; "Ok, if I'm feeling like this now, what happened today that could've triggered me?" So I went back through my day and found the culprit - wanting to tell a sparky to wipe his boots before walking thru my home, but was scared to death of repercussions. This was an extremely important clue to my PTSD...one step, one success...

With Counselling services, I use them often. But I ask myself what I want to achieve first. Do I want them to just listen? Do I want a well placed thought provoking question from them? Do I need someone to bring me down off the ceiling and back to reality? Or do I need a specialist like a rape counsellor? The other thing is understanding those counsellor's are doing the best they can. They don't know you unless you give them a background summary first. This really helps.

More than anything though is listening to my own voice. I say things sometimes and stop dead in my tracks from the unexpected wisdom coming out of my mouth. That's why journaling helped me...talking and listening to myself.

I hope you do well.

Kind thoughts...Dizzy