Counselling and Group Sessions

[David Nobody]

Hi,

I am attending “group sessions” for depression as an outpatient. And have done so as an inpatient.

I’d like to ask what people’s opinions are about there being “no wrong answers” in a group session.

To me this is very strange... Of course there are wrong answers. Just like there are wrong things said here in response other people’s questions. I’m not saying it happens often, or that it happens intentionally. I would just like to feel that my opinion matters enough to be treated truthfully. I don’t mind being wrong. I mind not knowing if what I have said, or think, is wrong.

David

[white knight]

Hi David

Ok. Clearly his is way above my head, and I am fine being upfront about anything.

Thanks for readung my worry thread. Also related to regurgitating the past us-

Beyondblue Topic do you cry over spilt milk?

Bare in mind these threads are not catering for your unique thinking processes, so take out if them what you can.

Beyondblue Topic guilt the tormentor

Beyondblue Topic depression, a ship on the high seas

Do you find that you have difficulty accepting your condition/illness or is the difficulty more towards fitting into society...peoples expectations?

TonyWK

[David Nobody]

Re: spilled milk

Memories of Me

I have these memories inside my head
It is all old news, it has all been said
There are some there I don’t want to forget
As well as some that haven’t happened yet
I have these memories inside my head

Forget the bad and remember the good
Is this what I must do or even should?
Don’t I have a responsibility
To remember what has happened to me?
Forget the bad and remember the good

If I forget who will remember me
Remember the man that I used to be
Remember back when I wasn’t depressed
Remember me when I was at my best?
If I forget who will remember me?

Don’t dwell in the past, don’t live pantomime
This I’ve been told a many, many time
If I forget do I also forgive
Forgive myself, and continue to live?
Don’t dwell in the past, don’t live pantomime

I have these memories inside my head
Forget the bad remember good instead
If I forget who will remember me?
Don’t dwell in the past there is more to see
I have these memories inside my head

I have guilt covered as well, but won’t share as they all contain probable triggers. Guilt is my main motivation, in as much, if I don’t do something I should do (exercise etc) I will feel guilt. So I don’t do things for their benefits, I do them so I won’t reward myself with guilt. My Psychologists don’t discourage this thought process.

The boat/sailor analogy (simile, parable, allegory, metaphor...?) I also have covered, but mine is generally on a winding muddy river. Raised in a town with a river and several beaches, I was quite adept at sailing and windsurfing. I understand what you were sailing... saying.

A sailor walks into a bar and says...
Hey, why is everyone being so shallow?

I don’t have trouble accepting my issues. What I have trouble with is accepting responsibility for my non-recovery. I would love to blame everything on my depression or autism, and frequently do, but I also think that that is a major cop-out. Someone is to blame... it may as well be me. If I blame others, I have to wear the guilt of the blame. Blaming me comes guilt free.

I don’t fit into society very well, but I don’t really care. Accept me as is, or don’t.

I have been like this for so long, there are no expectations put on me, except the ones I put on myself.

My story is very consistent, it is also consistently contradictory... depending on if I’m guilty, sailing a boat, or cleaning up the milk.

David.

[white knight]

Well written David

Re: "What I have trouble with is accepting responsibility for my non-recovery. I would love to blame everything on my depression or autism, and frequently do, but I also think that that is a major cop-out. Someone is to blame... it may as well be me. If I blame others, I have to wear the guilt of the blame. Blaming me comes guilt free"

Arghh, guilt, possibly the core of many a troubled mind for what ever reason...

Beyondblue Topic guilt the tormentor

re: "I have been like this for so long, there are no expectations put on me, except the ones I put on myself"

And such expectations should be within reason/achievable or they damage us.

"Someone is to blame" not really. "Blame" is adding responsibility to an unintentional innocent mind. Eg it's my fault I grew up sensitive, someone is tesponsible, it might as well be me....but in reality my sensitivity originated from my dysthymia that was created when I suffered trauma when my brother nearly drowned in our pool. I was 12yo.

Circumstances can be to blame, society can be to blame, evolution can be to blame, selfish people, negativitu, genetics, untapped memtal determination and many more possibles.

Let's be more positive

Beyondblue Topic the best praise you'll ever get

Re "Don’t I have a responsibility
To remember what has happened to me?

If what has happened to you was unavoidable and the memory of it stunts your advancement, the perhaps you have a responsibility to move on from it? At least working towards that...the old saying "s#it happens" ?

TonyWK

[David Nobody]

I have group today so I’ll write more later...

Guilt, Blame, Society... my three biggest hatreds.

(after me of course ;-))

David

[David Nobody]

Circumstances can be to blame... It is my fault I didn’t foresee and avoid the circumstances

Society can be to blame... Society establishes the requirements and boundaries, it is my fault for not adhering to the expectations.

Evolution can be to blame... I don’t think I have ever used this as an excuse, as all of these are excuses. If it wasn’t for evolution I wouldn’t have survived. Cave man times would have weeded me out long ago. This one is on my side.

Selfish people... I am the most selfish person I know.

Negativity... If I disagree with this I am being negative. If I agree with this I am being negative. See where I’m going here?

Genetics... same bucket as evolution. Except for the guilt that if it is in my genes, it is also in my mother’s or father’s, or both’s (maybe as recessive) genes, and that is where the guilt stems from.

Untapped mental determination... I lie awake at night waiting for my untapped mental determination to show itself, then I realise... wait for it... It is my fault for not “tapping into” any untapped reserves of anything.

I could go on for days. I will find a negative in anything. (Everything?) See... I even correct myself. I’m doing this on purpose... I’m writing my thoughts without “filtering” them to show you how my mind works. I would hate my mind if it was inside someone else’s head.

It is as you say, I need to be more positive. I am working on being less negative as a compromise. My psychologist has agreed to “let me have this one”. What she gets as a compromise from me is a poem about my “journey”. When I said I wasn’t writing as I don’t want to write negative things, and I have no inspiration to write a positive thought. When I have tried this in the past it was very forced, and felt fake. So she came up with the journey concept.

And the last point... responsibility to remember. I feel this is important. To forget the bad memories is to invite them back to happen again. You need to remember what has happened so you can stop it happening again. You need to learn the lesson. And then teach it to whoever will listen. Converse to a popular myth... history always repeats unless you learn from past mistakes.

Poo happens, but someone has to clean it up. (Figuratively and Literally)

[white knight]

Thanks David.

Re: "It is as you say, I need to be more positive. I am working on being less negative as a compromise"

And compromises are good. When we are programmed as we are, radical change is likely not possible so subtle changes when achieved bring happiness and it adds to the positive snowball effect.

My perception is that you are very intelligent. At times our thinking ability runs rampant in different directions depending on our illness. To chorale our excessive rampant thoughts in such mentality would be a major win. To curtail the extremes rather that gocus on a change of nature.

I'm no psych but I'd want to embrave "reasonableness". Such a attitude as a goal would be, hypothetically, to strive for what most of one hundred people would see as "yes I think thats reasonable "

Like- "To forget the bad memories is to invite them back to happen again. You need to remember what has happened so you can stop it happening again. You need to learn the lesson. " I'd suggest that if we surveyed 100 people most would say that once you've learned the lesson you should not need to remember it, as it should be implanted in your memory for safe keeping to recall when you need it. Whereas you (no doubt through your illness) have this need to put all thoughts on a turntable of regular reviewing so that lesson isnt lost.

See the contrast?

So if you were to teach yourself how to compartmentalize topics, even a little, then your busier than normal mind would be benefitting.

But I'm not professional in such fields...I can only mention what is obvious to me. I'm also a positive motivated person (beyondblue Topic 30 minutes can change your life ) so I find it hard now not to be positive in everything I do.

Beyondblue Topic never ever give up

TonyWK

[David Nobody]

Hi Tony,

My coffee cup has the Winston Churchill statement “never, never, never give up”.

I have vowed to never give up many times, but only one “never give up” remains constant.

Family

I put out the olive branch
It‘s thrown back into my face
A Knight of the broken lance
I go there but for the grace

All I know, I’ll try again
I will try until I win
Try, and try, and try, and then
Open up and look within

Time will return them to me
Returning will make me whole
Then we will be family
Then my tears I will control

Thank you for the smarts compliment.... and here is my mandatory rebuttal...

I am Not Learning

There is nothing here that I want
To myself, nothing I can give
I can be as smart as you like
But I still don’t know how to live

I think that I am incomplete
With the rest barely out of reach
Something is missing from my life
None of this, can anyone, teach

It is as if I don’t belong
Just something that I seem to know
I have been alone a long time
But I don’t mean “by myself” though

My trip, valid only one way
When I leave, I will not return
There will be no one to miss me
Life is something I could not learn

Life wasn’t something that was taught
Mathematics and English, sure
Just not how to be a person
My life is sick, and needs a cure

There have been doctors who have tried
But I wasn’t a good patient
Behaviour more like a victim
Who‘s locked away in a basement

I need someone who can teach me
How to be, how I should behave
The problem is that I won’t learn
In fact I’ll take that to my grave

And finally, yes I see the contrast. It is close that I put my thoughts on a turntable for regular review, but I like to think it is a refresher course to make sure the lesson remains learnt. Practice makes perfect. If I remember enough of the “life lessons”, one day I might get a passing grade. Top Answer is “Reason is never Reasonable”

David

[white knight]

Hi David,

Thanks for the poetry. I am listening, learning from you...about you.

Part of the "never ever give up" journey is diversity. I understand your limitations now, but that wont stop me from my suggestions...even if in the long run they prove futile. I would just like you to consider them.

Take poetry. I have 300 poems written over a 30 year period. I've tried getting them published but they are only interested in cryptic, non rhyming poetry. So I wrote a book about my life, the childhood trauma, the Air force, the warder job in Pentridge jail, the dog ranger, the panic attacks, the bipolar and running my own private investigation company and added poetry in every second page that related to my story. It still didn't attract interest.

Then one day I got the idea of writing poetry to victims of crime to, hopefully, bring them some level of comfort following their tragedy. I met one mother of two slain daughters at their grave site. I chatted then asked her if I could write to her- she said yes. That was 13 years ago...I'm still writing. She has about 70 poems written just for her and her husband, the father. We visited them a couple of years ago to find my poetry framed and adorning the walls of their dining room, it was a huge honor. She believes I have a spiritual connection to their daughters. In the early hours of many nights she cant sleep, she reads my poems.

I had found a use for my talent, a purpose, a connection that by far is more successful than any best selling book. Yes I made two friends also that we go camping together but to supply a spiritual journey to that grieving mother is a legacy that I'll take to my grave. I'll post a couple on my next posting here to give you an idea where I'm coming from.

My point is to somehow persuade you to consider other avenues of how to live. I know you feel trapped, unable to learn without relearning and it all frankly becomes confusing to me (remember I have bipolar, dysthymia etc so its understandable) but if you resign to not being able to spread your intellectual wings then yes- life will be daunting. I can only supply some ideas - the solution is for you to find based on your abilities, your undoubted wit and your talent...for every human being there is a calling, a place, a way of offering your gift to the human race. This topic is by far greater than smaller daily issues like group therapy and its difficulties you endure. It is a way of finding purpose within the bounds of your talents.

TonyWK

[white knight]

continued...

THE HOUSE OF WAX

He was busy with the pouring
This old man’s name of Max
So I toured his workplace while he toiled
This holy house of wax

There were inventors of a kind
And starlets from the stage
There were master minds of talent
From another age

There were heroes of the wars
And leaders of a group
There were figurines of wax
From every allied troop


I stopped to admire him work
His name tag read just “Max”
“You really are a marvel
How you recreate with wax”

I focused on his one off mould
And marvelled when it set
This figure of a lady
That I’d recently had met

Her arms were open wide
as if about to fly
I asked a simple question
I asked a simple “why”?

Beause she is cradling her girls
Even though you cannot see
It is the stance she had
When they were one and three

He continued to work away
As his making of a sign did end
And I was in total awe
Of a mirror image of my friend

He rolled out the final cast
To place at Shirley’s feet
This house of wax curator
That I was glad to meet

He placed the sign just right
This single cast of one
The sign read appropriately
“This is the perfect mum”

TonyWK

PETAL POWER

On your saddest day
You take a daisy flower
You pick petal for each of your woes
And count them by the hour

And when they become a stem
And petals line the floor
Gather them up in your loving arms
Put them in your store

When you enter spirit land
It be snowing like Daisy Dell
Flowers thrown in celebration
By faces you can tell

Then you throw your own
And you will include the stems
Cause that’s what bound these petals together
A meaning to and end

They will pick up the last flower
Of this daisy chain
Reunited and delighted
Connected once again

A simple daisy flower
Messages you can’t ignore
A petal for each of your woes
Are littering the floor

So on your saddest days
You take a daisy flower
Feel free to pick a petal for each of your woes
And count them by the hour

For your heart will glue them all together again
When it’s time to travel above
For your girls a gift in your pocket
The daisy chain of love…..

TonyWK

So, you get the idea.

I want to make progress with you David. But I have no expectations. Not all of us can find the drive to maintain our illness and contribute to others on this forum although I've noticed you have posted on other threads which is encouraging, but doesn't surprise me as I know you have lots of depth.

I want you to find your calling. What do you think it could be?

TonyWK

[David Nobody]

Hi Tony,

great poetry.

I have commented on other posts “positively” because I am great at solving other people’s problems. I have written a few poems “for others”, but not many. As against the the 800 I have written about me or my experience.

I can't possibly know how you must feel
And I didn't know him, we never met
But I don’t have to know to understand
His memory lives in her silhouette

As a partner he might have gone away
But as a father he will never leave
It is not wrong for you to feel sorrow
Find comfort in each other while you grieve

I have no doubt that he was a good man
Because you chose him to be her father
She will always have two fierce companions
Protectors both a sister and brother

You will remember to her happy times
And you will see smiles on her perfect face
He will be missed but he will not be lost
Memories will help fill the empty space

Desire and hope a beautiful name
She will always be missing a small part
‘Though she might be sad she will not forget
That small part will always be in her heart

And I certainly found out that poetry isn’t published unless you are famous already, Depression isn’t published unless you are a famous person going through depression. At least published by a traditional publisher. Lots of Vanity and Self publishing. And when you combine the two, with very “immature” poetry, that rhymes, is very one dimensional, very close to whingeing, that hasn’t been properly edited... never going to happen.

Similar to you, about the “how can I do good” with my poetry, this is basically the best I could come up with. Even if you provide it for free, “non profit organisations” can’t (rightly so) make it available to the public. I have tried to contact as many people “who could make a difference” but with no response, and thinking that everyone who has ever written about depression has probably tried to do the same, it is understandable why they can’t assist.

I’m told it is good, told it is insightful, told that it could make a difference... but so has, I’m sure, has many other writers.

I also want to find a “calling”. I have just about given up on poetry... If I can’t “make a difference” as it is only “written for me” why bother when I have no inspiration or inclination to write “happy poetry”. I am not feeling guilty that I haven’t written anything new over the last few weeks or so. I haven’t become disheartened so much, it just doesn’t matter anymore.

David