Teenage Insolence or Depression?

[Loozinmycool]

I'm not sure if I'm dealing with an extremely insolent 14yr old or a teen suffering from diagnosed depression.  2 years ago I thought I was dealing with a hormonal horror head tween, then a yr ago a suicide attempt proved it was much much worse, a nightmare that was out of control.  Meds, doctors, counselling all fail due to her refusal to stick to anything.  Her school grades are exceptional and she has talked about going on to uni but the past few months has seen her attitude at home hitting rock bottom to the point I have a strong urge to throw her out.  She enjoys many more freedoms than any of her peers and friends and even her older brother, she has admitted as much.  To me it's like she is sabotaging any and every opportunity that might help her.  I don't know what or who i'm trying to deal with.  She hasn't been home since I  totally lost it with her last night after she disregarded my request for her to come home from a party where I know she was drinking & smoking.  I am in no doubt she is suffering from depression and or anxiety and am doing my best to help and understand so I would like to know if such extreme insolence is a symptom of depression or not? 

[HA1]

Hi loozinmycol

Welcome to the BB forum & thanks for your post.

From my reading of your post, I understand that your daughter has been diagnosed with depression.  That being the case, I can only suggest to you that mental illness can present itself as anger and frustration.  I guess it would be very easy to display these feelings as "insolence".  No fault of her own if that is so.  

How long ago was she diagnosed?  And how frequently does she agree to seek professional help? 

K

[Loozinmycool]

Thanks Hideaway for your reply,

It's 2am as I write this and I've just picked her up from her 'friends' place after a frantic call from her brother that she was drunk, out of control and taken off with this friend. It's the 2nd night in a row I had asked her to be home early but she just argues the point and then does what she pleases. I don't have the physical ability to drag her home...I tried.

Her depression was diagnosed just over a year ago after her suicide attempt. Unfortunately whilst in hospital she was besieged by mental health doctors which only reinforced her barriers and when coupled with her father that has absolutely no time for 'head shrinks' nor for the possibility that there is such an illness as depression I'm banging my own head against a brick wall.  Her 1st and only psychologist didn't heed my advice to not treat her like a little kid so she played mind games with him and refused to go after the 3rd session.

Her paediatrician prescribed sleeping meds and AD's which she refused to take after 1 month and though she appeared to be happier, due to change of school & a holiday, she managed to fool him into thinking she was OK even though I was not so convinced. 2 weeks ago she finally agreed to go to doctors to get a mental health plan done but appointment is still 1 1/2 weeks away.

She recently has grudgingly been seeing a natural therapist which i thought/hoped was making some progress but after this weekend she seems to be on a course of total self destruction and if depression causes this 'insolence' I now wonder if she needs to be on

suicide watch!

beyondblue's clinically-trained moderators often work offline (invisible to you) on issues relating to suicide or self-harm. At the same time, general supportive comments from the community are encouraged. If you have concerns around suicide or self-harm, please phone our support service on 1300 22 4636.
 

[HA1]

Hi Loozinmycool

Thanks for replying - appreciate it.  I am sorry, I did not appreciate fully the situation your finding yourself in.  Most difficult and frustrating.  But I admire your resilience, you are being a wonderful mum, dedicated to helping your daughter under very trying circumstances.  You have done very well.  

Obviously we cannot be sure what it is that is causing her current defiant mood, but if it is the depression, then the most important part of your last post is whether your daughter is safe in her current mood.  I am afraid that you are in the best place to determine that.  However, as an outsider looking in, I can only make the observation that I would find it difficult not to keep a close eye on her mood and behaviour.  Particularly if she has been in that dark place previously.  

Not sure what your personal circumstances are, but if you are in the lucky position to do so, I would consider admitting her into a private clinic (as opposed to public hospital) for monitoring.  That way she may not feel as if she is under siege by mental health practitioners if she reacts badly to that. But that is a decision you can take in consultation with the doctor (is it GP and psychologist/psyciatrist?).  But like you say, she needs to talk to them.

You are in a very difficult position, and I really feel for you. You need support from the rest of the family or from elsewhere.  Does your partner fully understand the situation with your daughter?  It would seem that he may not, or if he does, then he appears to be in denial. He might also need to speak with the doctor.  

I am sorry that I cannot provide more than moral support, but you now know that we are here ready to listen.  Importantly, don't forget that you can call the Beyond Blue support line to discuss your situation. The number is on the bottom of your last post (with a message from the moderators).

Take care of yourself and your daughter

K

[AGrace]

Hi Loozinmycool,

I hope it's fair for me to say I think you are dealing with a bit of both.

I'm wondering if you have been to see your daughter's Psychologist? It sounds like some clear boundaries need to be set, and I don't dispute that this can be a tough task. I'm thinking it could be an idea to set these boundaries with the support of your daughter's Psychologist or even an independent counsellor.

Was your daughter hospitalised after her suicide attempt? Is this something that you would consider now?

Dealing with a teenager at the best of times can be a huge job, and I think you deserve a lot of credit for coming here for extra support. It might also be worthwhile having a look at some of the family and friend threads to join a discussion with other mums in a similar situation.

I look forward to hearing back from you.

AGrace

[Loozinmycool]

Thanks  Hideaway & AGrace

I should be at work today but am physically and emotionally unable to.

I'm a single mum that works 9-5, living 2hrs out of Melb with limited access and funds to doctors.  My ex daughter's father lives the other side of Melb and does not believe in depression and loathes pyschs (has had previous exp with them) so there is no way he will talk to them.  When my girl was in hospital for her suicide attempt he walked off and refused to talk with the pyschs even though I pleaded with him to for his daughters well being. According to him she is being an attention seeking brat who needs to get real and get over it.  He is an older dad who has had a pretty turbulent upbringing but because he 'got over it' and has managed just fine then so can everyone else!

My girl just wont talk, especially to doctors and pyschs which I believe comes from hearing and knowing what her dad thinks about them. It's been a year since she saw a psychologist and as I mentioned the 2 or 3 sessions she had with him only reinforced her and her fathers thoughts about that profession and to be honest I was none to impressed either.  I have pleaded with her to try again and she has finally agreed but as i mentioned we have to wait for another week to get her mental health plan done.  Getting into see any GP let alone her GP is to say politely 'difficult'

After the weekend from sheer hell I decided to I would get her admitted because I don't and can't trust what she might do but before I made that call I rang her dad and told him what I was going to do and now I'm not too sure it was the right decision to tell him.  He has asked me to hold off until after he sees her so he's asked that she go stay with him for a couple of days. I see the following scenario unfold. -  that she pretends there's

nothing wrong with her (she's very good at that) and he will think i'm being over dramatic and he will drive her depression even deeper. -

I hope i'm wrong and hope it's been me that's been manipulated. 😞

beyondblue's clinically-trained moderators often work offline (invisible to you) on issues relating to suicide or self-harm. At the same time, general supportive comments from the community are encouraged. If you have concerns around suicide or self-harm, please phone our support service on 1300 22 4636.

 

[Loozinmycool]

Sorry I know I'm rambling but if I get on a phone and actually talk to someone all i will do is cry and i don't want to cry anymore.

I come from European background and my parents were uber strict so we definitely have boundaries, no where near what mine were but no doubt more than either of my kids like.  Both my kids know them and generally abide by them and I can say with honesty that I was proud that they were growing up to be the polite, well mannered individuals that all parents would wish of their children.

However when I spoke to my ex about a year ago about our girl's behaviour, which was no where near as bad as it is now,  he suggested I let her and my son enjoy more freedom and trust them.  There were still rules but loosen up I did, my boy cut loose for a period but wisend up eventually and he 'confesses' to things that would make me wince but since i appreciate his honesty i don't get mad but do encourage him to think of the consequences if something had gone wrong.

But my girl who started off appreciating the freedom that enable her to attend concerts, travel to melb with friends, etc and enjoys much more freedom than most of her friends and peers has just become totally reckless and with absolute disregard to rules, curfews...everything. It's only been the last 2yrs that my girl has gradually changed from my little angel to the devil re-incarnate.   She has always been a strong willed, intelligent adrenalin junkie but now she's all that and obnoxious rude uncaring teen who self harms is drinking, smoking and refusing to take meds that might help.

Her friendship group are all kids with their own serious issues, even her school informed me that they weren't the most appropriate group for her to receive support from.  She has a tendency to surround herself with what kids would call 'outcasts' yet she herself is not an 'outcast'.  Whilst i would normally not have a problem with this as i saw it as a person who didn't label others and as she said "if people treat me right, why would i treat them wrong?" they don't really encourage a bright outlook on each others lives.

My family, mum & sister both live in QLD and know some of what is going on but not everything. I just can't/don't want to let them in?!  My best friend is going through her own personal hell with a daughter

suffering from a tumor so really don't want to burden her either!

I will get my own health plan organised sooner rather than later.

Thanks for listening

[Disconnected]

hello Loozinmycool, Just been reading the posts. Hey I have been there and lost a few times too. You know what it doesn't do anything in the end but make you feel guilty for loozing it.  Remember your girl is your baby and you love her and well your baby is in emotional pain right now. Your baby doesn't understand where the pain is coming from and so drinking and smoking takes it away for awhile. Not for long though. Put yourself in her position and think of what you would like your mum to do for you. Iam no shrink but often I have found if I do that it helps me see where others are coming from. Iam a single mum and I went through a messy divorce, with kidnapping and violence too. When your children see and feel this they don't understand where your pain comes from and your reaction to it. It has been said to me that often feel that they caused it and then they get the guilts too. My daughter was 2yrs when it all happened and I did seek help then but when she was 7yrs she stopped eatingand drinking I was at my wits end. Turned out she had over heard me talking on the phone that her dad wasn't coming back to Aust as he had a one way ticket. her world collapsed and so she stopped eating. Its amazing whats going on in their minds.

I suggest the next time she gets all fired up just tell her you love her and leave her alone. Later when she is calmer just say hey Iam hurting too can we have a hug. It has worked for me sometimes. Sometimes they think we know it all but we don't and I think they need to see that we feel emotional pain too. Mind you don't completely break down cause that is way too scary for her right now. Have a cry with a good friend cause you need that too. Oh dear Iam having a cry right now. Funny Hey!

let me know how it all goes Disconnected

[HA1]

Hi Loozinmycool

You are not ranting, just sharing a little bit more of your story.  To that I say thank you! Personally I find it good to share, even if there is limited response, the fact that it is out of our system, makes a difference.

I think Disconnected has made a wonderful suggestion. When I think about it, if I am really worried about someone dear to me, then I tend to pick my moment when to 'strike' with my intervention.  If I know they are in a bad mood, or otherwise distracted, I don't talk too much, I just watch (carefully).  Then I find a wary to gently break the ice, and as Disconnected said in her own thread, just say something like R U Ok anne then comfort and hug.

Talk soon again,

Take care

K

[AGrace]

Hi Loozinmycool,

I think it's great that you felt comfortable and concerned enough to vent here. So many parents wouldn't and that's not the best way to get support.

I take it from your most recent post that you've decided to let your daughter stay with her dad for a while? Is your daughter looking forward to this?

I think it's difficult for any parent to admit that their child may have a mental health problem, so I get where your husband is coming from. I don't want to sound insensitive to men, but I also think that they have a tendency to want to fix things themselves, that "pull your socks up" mentality. The most important thing though is what your daughter needs, not what you or your husband want, and I say this in the nicest of ways because I can see that you are really trying to do what's best for your daughter, and that takes courage and strength.

I hope that you will continue to chat with us here, it sure beats crying on the phone. The other thing I was also wondering was whether your daughter would find it more helpful to chat with peers on a forum like this? Especially if she doesn't feel seeing a Psychiatrist would help. I wonder if you could suggest her joining the youthbeyondblue forums, where she will be able to connect with others going through similar experiences.

AGrace