Why are people opposed to suicide, when they know it's not as simple as that?

[florencefortyeight]

I just made a thread talking about how my current circumstances and my past make it impossible for me to get over losing someone I loved, and find love at any point in the future. People say you should love yourself, but I had to love myself for twenty-three years before I got Depression, and NEEDED some sort of outside perspective. I never got it.

To say you should love yourself, by yourself, forever, is just a pleasant way of saying you're not meant to be here.

If people know who I am, and that I have no hope, that I make no impact on the world around me, that my feelings are HEAVILY, heavily stigmatised.. why wouldn't they understand?

Obvious DISCLAIMER, I am asking this from a theoretical perspective.. I am safe.

[Croix]

Dear Florencefortyeight~

OK, I have read your other thread

"Break-up advice just does not apply to me.. there is no getting over it."

and have a great deal of sympathy, both for the loss of a possible relationship, but also all these so called meaningful opinions have that sound wise, but are no real help at the time.

I felt like that when my first wife passed away.

I came to a surprising conclusion, I was one of those people that really needed to be part of a partnership, to see and be seen by another, love and live together during our lives.

I have the feeling from the way you write that meaning in life comes to you though having the companionship of another. Someone you love and loves you.

I do have some things to say. The fist is I disagree completely with your "impossible for me to get over losing someone I loved". I thought that and found the word impossible is both wrong and harmful, easy to convince yourself it is true.

Time varies with people, 1 year, 2 years, 5 years and so on, everyone is unique.

You are having an impact on the world right now, even though you do not have a partner. Your impact on me was to remind me of my period of loss, suicidality and greif -and how it ended on renewed happiness.

It may well be that you cannot simply go out and find a mate. Often life is oblique, where something as mundane as dropping a bag can lead to a fruitful introduction, or you try an alternative interest, maybe music, maybe books maybe.. and that surrounds you with others (which is the one thing I really agree with in your other thread.)

Being with people (and not necessarily revealing your past) does a lot of things, it can provide interest, lessens your feelings of isolation and may lead to a social life.

Few things are for ever, regrettably not even a partner or a pet, but that does not mean why try, there is too much to enjoy and give to for you to discard it all.

Incidentally there is one phrase I"m unable to understand -my failing I admit, and this is

"my feelings are HEAVILY, heavily stigmatized".

Would you like to explain it for me?

Croix

[geoff]

Hello Florencefortyeight, you make an interesting point, and yes learning to love and approve of yourself is one of the hardest things to do, because focusing on our wants and needs over those of others requires constant and difficult work, but how can we truly look after another person if we aren't focused on ourselves first.

Having or finding your own self love allows you to have a more fulfilling life because you've learnt that your happiness isn’t dependent upon anyone but yourself and then you can genuinely love other people and be happy for their successes as a result or help carry the burden they're struggling with.

If people can't understand or can't join with you in times of need, then are these people worth communicating with, although at times there are those we don't expect a reaction from, simply because they're people we normally have fun with and never expect them to know exactly how we feel.

There does come a time when people just have to listen and not pretend to know only because this can backfire and worsen the situation.

There is an old saying 'You can’t help someone else until you help yourself', but by losing someone you dearly loved is such an enormous sadness, that unfortunately many of us have had to cope with and need the time to once again establish our self worth.

This doesn't mean people don't understand at all, they know you need time and will be ready at any stage when you put your hand up and ask for help.

A major factor is that depression for those who have not had it makes it difficult for them to understand and can be seen as a weakness as the negative aspects of this illness makes it seem not worthwhile pursuing and unbelievable, there are many thoughts we have to try and deal with.

Best wishes.

Geoff.

[therising]

Hi florencefortyeight

If we were taught how to love our self and how to maintain that self love from the very start, life would definitely be a heck of a lot easier. Unfortunately, it's typically the case that most of us just weren't raised this way. Pretty messed up really. So, life may come to involve some long and seemingly impossible quest in the pursuit of self love of some kind.

Based on my years preceding depression, my years during depression and my years following I hit a mind altering epiphany - 'Which self are you trying to love?' Yes, sounds weird and a little ridiculous so I'll put it another way - Are you trying to love your conditioned self or your natural self? By the way, I've found the conditioned self can be impossible to love, which can create a hopeless and depressing quest.

Give you a couple of examples regarding the 2 selves:

• I can love my self that naturally explores the significance of emotions. I use emotions as my compass, especially when it comes to reading people in certain situations, for example. A 'negative vibe' from someone is a truly handy tool to have. I cannot love my self that has been conditioned to suppress emotions. In this case, you could be facing a degrading person who treats you like garbage and hear that conditioning 'Don't be confrontational. Don't challenge them. Just don't say anything'. I can't stand that self at times, that follows this advice. I actually resent it. I love my self that has come to wonder out loud, 'I can't help but wonder what leads you to be so degrading'. Wondering out loud does trigger people at times 🙂 Took me decades to stop being a people pleaser all the time, to fight against that conditioning that was so deeply ingrained
• I continue to work on resisting the self that was conditioned to slot everyone into boxes, you know...social pigeon holing. That self is closed minded and creates a distorted perspective, in my opinion. That self shuts the mind off to outside the square possibilities. The opposing self is 'the wonderful self', the self that wonders whether the best people for us are outside the square. If no difference is made to my life inside the square then the difference must be outside of it

'I'm not who I think I am' can be a powerful mantra. A lot of the time we can be conditioned to think the way we do to the point where it becomes painfully depressing. If many of the conditions we've come to live by are crazy what does that say about the people who set them for us?

🙂