Forgiveness

[ecomama]

"Forgiveness is giving up the hope that the past could be any different".  Oprah Winfrey

How many times have you heard someone say, "You need to forgive that person" ??

One billion and counting would be my answer lol. My question to the person saying that to me, was 
"Tell me HOW to forgive, like give me the STEPS to follow and I will do it!"... 

No one has been able to answer the HOW to do this. Maybe I have forgiven now, maybe I haven't, IDK. 

Is forgiveness a practice we work at every day? 
Is it visualising a little gift box wrapped with a bow and handed to that person? (Yep that was suggested to me lol). 
Does TIME help us forgive or is this just "letting go"? 

I've found it VERY hard to Pray loving Prayers for people I needed to forgive. Just sayin' lol. 

Although the Bible has Jesus' words "Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do." I'm not Jesus. 

Have you forgiven people who've wronged you? 

Could you be brave enough to share with us HOW you forgave that person or people? 

Thankyou for your contributions. 
Love EM

[Guest_1584]

Detachment for me is a pretty good description or something like , in what l was getting at.

Because l usually know with someone , l don't allow attachment or allow them in in any ways where they'll be able to do their fun and games. They'll never be considered a friend or take up space within heart or much in thoughts either.

They kinda get the brush off you could say, on auto.

l never expect anything from these people other than who they are so to speak.

Butttt, my calls haven't had a 100% success rate though , couple of bad ones and so l have been attached or felt love for the person andddd, boooom.  l had to shake the hand of one of them only a few mths ago - it was a situation and the best thing all round when the hand was out, was to just go ahead and go along with it. l didn't look at him though and said to myself don't you for one second think that after 10yrs l am shaking your hand bc l'm not. Matter of fact l had thoughts of breaking that hand while l was shaking it,

But in that 10yrs he still hasn't taken up much thought, l decided day one l won't be living like that- but mind you, revenge has cross my mind a few times along the way and l was surprised with the outreached hand the other mth, l suddenly still felt like it.

There'll be no forgiveness for that one l'm afraid.

rx

[white knight]

Dear EM

Perhaps "freedom" is the right word for most people but what is freedom? In my world freedom is detachment with acceptance and without care. The people that ended up at that point in my brain had behaviour that was unacceptable and for whatever reason, carried out a final action that broke the camels back. From that point the detachment began and over time that persons adverse behaviour was dwelling, reminding myself how wrong it was. That dwelling was the catalyst to acceptance my rejection of them was justified. 

I've lived a life of giving to family and friends.  Unfortunately givers run the risk of others taking an opportunity to exploit which include creating guilt in us. Most necessary to built our "fortress of survival " for this reason. 

TonyWK

[ecomama]

Hey Eagle Ray! Thankyou for chiming in on this topic because it's a BIGGIE lol. 

OH 100% I forgive all people who've harmed me, YES! 
But forgiveness never has to mean I communicate with them on any physical plane. 

Not renew a relationship nor see or speak to them, nothing. Purely forgive them for my psychological and spiritual growth. 

I remain strict NC because they are dangerous individuals. 

Adding my mother to the list lol. Don't refer to her as my mother IRL, I refer to her with her name "P".
I don't laugh about my P's living situation (hoarding) nor how she chooses to appear as a homeless person, nor her MH conditions. I've been NC for decades with her... but my adult children, mostly Alexa, ARE in communication with her and she attempts to hurt them, still.
Forgiveness for me, with P will look VERY different to how I "forgive" others. It's still happening, probably not my burden to bear. 

Same with ex mil. 
Nada. 
Dangerous. 
But to FREE MYSELF I choose to forgive 100%. 

Otherwise, I intuit that, holding on to ANY part of these people, giving emotional charge to whatever they did, knowingly or not, is like a spiritual ball and chain holding me down. 

I understand forgiveness to be for OURSELVES, not for the other person at all lol. 

As Tony WK said... and I realise I could be taking his words out of context here... forgiving = FREEDOM for us. 

I am already physically free of them. Not dependent upon any of them in any way, not financially, not emotionally, nothing. 

Spiritually & psychologically I release them. 

It seems like the more I interact with life long friends, the more forgiveness is necessary - will post on my thread about these, save going to far off topic.. 

Love EMxxxx

[ecomama]

Hey Kitty, WOW we are really taking this discussion DEEP. LOVE that! 
Beginning with Tony WKs contribution to this thread meant I KNEW it was starting off DEEP lol. 

Now we're all swimming in the deep haha. 

This >>> "I thought, I could forgive, if I knew they understood what they did, & how much it harmed me. I didn’t know! I now know: I will never have that need/wish fulfilled & what's more, I don't feel I need to have answers from them anymore.

I think forgiveness can allow us to move from needing them to hear my grievance, or seeing them have to make any restitution or receive any punishment, or even to have any thoughts or feelings themselves - big mountain to ask of myself, ain't it?"

Umm no? 
I think it's a sensible, rational, MATURE and reasonable ask of yourself. 

Why would any abusers come begging for forgiveness, explain each event in detail etc, with no agenda? 
Lol because they wouldn't. 

Abusive personality types ALWAYS have an agenda. 
Hence there's no point in bringing up anything at all with them. 
I got closure on all of these relationships and locked those down, hard. 

I am talking about wilfully violent creatures. Not people merely "making mistakes". But those extreme ones who plotted planned spread falsities & reports etc etc. 
It's not each event I need to forgive them for or even have the need to FORGET. 

But the person. I choose to forgive the person regardless of what they did and their evil intentions to cause ill and even my passing from their actions. 
It didn't work lol! 
And it was fun watching karma unfold BUT I AM rising ABOVE these levels to simply want to forgive them, all of it. 
Remain NC. Never have contact. 

This is not only my journey. Everyone is welcome to share ANY THING. 

Love EM

[ecomama]

Hello Eagle Ray, I think for me, not necessarily all people, that I WANT TO, even NEED to forgive ALL those people, it's a yearning so deep, like my Soul is weighted and I simply don't need that. 

I've lived long enough to know without a shadow of doubt that UNLESS I learn the lessons, they WILL repeat and get uglier each time. 

I don't do ugly any more lol. 

Forgiving with LOVE is something I've practiced but NOT with these people lol!
Ok at my Bible Study I attempted to! Lol.
I felt HEAVY because I was so darned ANGRY with them still (thick in the middle of Courts doing my head in, omg READING those sworn affidavits oozing thick lies like crude oil all over our beautiful LIVES - RE VOLT ING). 

I found it easier to "hand it all over to GOD" than doing any type of psychological gymnastics TRYING to forgive when I absolutely could NOT. 

I wasn't "there" yet. 

I AM THERE now. 

An analogy instantly came to mind.... hahaha. I love me some analogies. 
SO after all this HOT AIR blustering & BURSTING out of me to my closest, most trusted people including my Angelic Lawyer lol...
BURNING HOT AIR LIKE HELL out out out... 

I realised I was filling a Hot Air Balloon... aha this is my analogy. 

So as this colourful bright balloon became FULL it rested. 
I admired it for a while bobbing around, waiting waiting.... 

Now I can use this converted hot air to FLOAT UP and see the view from UP HIGH. 
I won't "crash" to the ground because the people who I reacted to with hot air, aren't there to burst the balloon. 

It was my OWN reaction to their evil doings that I had HOT AIR for. 

Now I have no reactivity left but to forgive, release, be free. 

Make sense? lol
Love EM

[ecomama]

Hey rx, thankyou for defining what this means to you with a well illustrated example hmmm. 

Detachment, hmmm. 
So not love or like, not hate either? 

More like "meh" or "nothing"? 

I like the land of "meh" lol. 
Either end of the spectrum is still attachment. 

I literally have no idea how I'd react to seeing someone from these netherlands of meh, IN PERSON. 
Having to shake their hand? 
Mmmm ewwww lol. 

Rx I don't think forgiving a person necessitates that we ACCEPT their wrongdoings as ok, ever. 
Nor do we have to reconcile our relationship with them. HELL NO! lol. 

I'm glad you're not bugged psychologically by them.  

I had no idea why I WAS on Friday night. 

They are hiding in plain sight, masquerading as holy ppl. Hence me having to report to the Royal Commission ffs. But that is done too, for all it was not worth. 

Tbh if I saw demon I'd like to think I'd view it as a mosquito tbh. Annoying whining insect it is. 
Would I? 
IDK. 

Forgiven that? Ummm IDK. 

"Forgive them Lord for the know not what they do, when they really DID know exactly what they were doing and did it all with evil intent?" 
I'm not the Lord lol. 
IDK. 

Maybe I'm far from forgiveness, I just mentally rehearse BEING on the other side of it. 

EMxxxx

[ecomama]

Hey Tony WK, 

Am I on the right track thinking your "fortress of survival" is you setting BOUNDARIES? 

We all need healthy boundaries. 

Because of FOO issues I am still learning about setting healthy boundaries, my Counsellor is assisting &, through study. 

My "go to" once abuse has become extreme is always No Contact. When it's Police call up worthy then NC all the way. 

Freedom I agree. Consists of detachment, acceptance & not engaging? 

Lessons not learnt... I had occasion to visit my terminally ill friend tonight. 
Woah Tony, she is so full of toxic hatred, spewed all sorts out TO me. Not AT me ... perhaps a little. I understand NOW that my health and happiness provokes all sorts in them. 

This could be another thread. I think she's at the point of realisation she's passing and is losing control, so attempting to CONTROL via hatred instead of seizing the opportunities to LOVE. 

So dare I even think I need to forgive HER now too? 

What a mess. 
Now I have 2 friends both terminally ill and BOTH doing toxic shyte. 

I am going Low Contact with both. 

Did you NEED justification to sever contact for yourself or from others? 
I just do it. 
I don't ask my IRL people. 

Love EM

[Eagle Ray]

Yes I think I understand what you’re saying EM. The hot air balloon sounds like a really helpful analogy. It sounds like all the energy of hot air that went into the balloon is now what allows you to rise above, have perspective and you are SAFE. And now you are at that place of non-reactivity you are truly free.

 I totally understand not forgiving with love in relation to those particular people. When I mentioned love and the inner expansion it gives I was thinking of love for the special people in our lives, for ourselves and everything we care about. In my case, I replace the energy in me from someone who has horribly abused me with the energy of the beautiful souls in my life - the loving, kind, wise people. I haven’t become completely unreactive to the abuser in that certain things/memories may activate some reactivity, but I’m getting there.

 I love your statement, “I don’t do ugly anymore”. I’m 100% with you. I’m just not going there anymore including in the choices I make and who I choose to be around. Life is too precious to allow ugly in. And I totally relate to to the idea of letting go of anything that weighs down the soul. We can nurture and love our souls. It’s like the eternal part of us that is both our core and our expansion to our connection with everything else in the universe.

[ecomama]

Okay so you said you like analogies lol, here goes another one I shared with my Counsellor (C) around 2.5y ago when I joined the forums & was getting trauma psych exposure therapy. 

C said why did I have the need to explore the horrible things of the past? 

I said that it was like I'm walking along a beach with big pebbles to walk on. 
I can be walking forward along the pebbles, being a tiny bit careful where I step, not much, I'm confident walking forward. 
But then I feel a rumbling, I turn around and there's a pebble here and there rumbling and getting LOUDER... 

The rumbling pebbles are like intrusive thoughts & PTSD symptoms. 

If I DON'T attend to each pebble, they rumble louder and it all gets unmanageable. 

If I DO attend to each one, give the time and space and HEALING attention for each one, then they settle and I can continue walking forward. 

Even making this thread has given me a reality check. 

Sure yesterday I saw a person who was previously a major trigger lol, in fact going anywhere NEAR that shop was a focus in my therapy! 
I had ZERO triggers, didn't even THINK about the fact this was a paralysing place to me a few years ago. 

Didn't remember that person worked there lol! 
Saw her and thought yeah still ugly hahaha and yeah still working here, well done you (sarcastically). 

Nada. Zip zilch nothing. Done. 

Major progress. 
But forgiveness? idk, each pebble needs it's attention so I can be wholly free. 

I can forgive with love, but it's probably an inauthentic love hahaha. Just a pink cloud surrounding them. I find this keeps them away, which is exactly what I want. 

I could tell you don't do ugly either hahaha!!!

Love EM

[Eagle Ray]

Your pebble analogy makes sense to me EM. It’s like the rumbling pebbles are the past experiences that still had trauma-related charge. What you have done is quieten the rumbles - released the charge. It’s amazing how your imagination comes up with this helpful imagery. We have such healing potential always already in us and can tap into it.

In a somatic processing exercise with the psych, I had someone who was acting out abusively to me (from the past) turn first into a hologram and then dissolve altogether. My primal brain produced that. I didn’t consciously think it. Afterwards I’m on the same street at night in my memory, and it is a calm and peaceful evening and everything is ok again.

The fact you went to a place and it no longer affected you, that is fantastic. I know that feeling of paralysis and when it no longer happens it’s truly wonderful. It really is possible to heal, but also sometimes we absolutely need to keep certain people out of our lives. I think if you still feel ambivalent about forgiveness, allow that. You don’t need any pressure to forgive now or in the future. It may or may not happen one day, but releasing yourself, which is the progress it sounds like you’ve made, is what matters for your well being.

 I’m working on this myself - seeking freedom. I’ve had a taste of it and then relapsed, but I think it’s a two steps forward, one step back thing. I need to be patient and kind with myself.

Much kindness to you EM xxxx