Marriage, Gaslighting, conflict avoidance, Shame dumping and projection

[Praeteritus_braccas]

In the last 5 weeks, my wife has laid an impossible amount of grievances at my feet, having only discussed it in depth 2 weeks prior and coming to the view that we were all good, especially considering this whole pandemic, working from home and with each other in the same business.

In short, my wife has decided that my many aspects of our 15 year relationship (7 years marriage) and best friends for 20 years, contain behaviours on my part that she has identified that are no longer acceptable. They include Manipulation, Emotional Abuse, Dominating, 'taking up all the oxygen', never taking the blame and much more. She now says that she has never been able to tell me the whole truth because she is terrified to talk to me. That she feels emotionally abandoned and unsupported. That there is deep resentment about specific events that go back 10 and 15 years.

I have PTSD from a deeply damaged childhood. I have had, and am having Counseling to work through my PTSD and behaviours that i know are difficult when im not at my best. My wife has a high anxiety all the time which is untreated. She avoids any conflict with anyone, not just me. We have known this about each other since the start, we have helped each other through our pain and built a life.

Within the last 5 weeks, we are now at crisis, my wife doesnt know whether she wants to be in the marriage anymore. My wife has chronic health issues, and we are both exhausted, both mentally and physically. We have agreed that we need to take the time to make a sound decision. not to rush into something that will rip our kids lives apart.

To confuse matters, when all this came about, i found out she is having an online relationship / emotional infidelity with a young 30 year old, who lives at home, no job, no commitments, no kids. complete online real time 24/7 unbridled support from the other side of the world. she now has feelings for this guy.

This has blown me out of the water to the point where my Anxiety is so pronounced i am taking serious Anti-Anxiety medication. I am in limbo until she decides what SHE wants.My Psychologist tells me its possible that i am being gas-lighted, shame dumped and she is blame shifting. She has never accepted any responsibility for anything, there is always a reason for her decisions and poor behaviour.

I continue to defend her position, to say she must be right, im the one who has failed. My Psych. says that I'm carrying an unfair burden.

I have never felt so worthless as a human.

[Praeteritus_braccas]

I confronted my wife on Monday about an online affair she was hiding. She admitted to it immediately.

This online fantasy with a guy from USA, who has over a period of 12 months gone about learning all my wife's, anxieties, fears, deep resentments, all the negative feelings she has and has cleverly manipulated and seduced her. The relationship is full of amplified toxic messages about me her husband, convincing her I'm abusing and manipulating her, whilst lifting her up and providing the emotional high to the point where she was completely addicted to this online fantasy.

W has admitted its unhealthy and has now completely severed ties and completely cut off that relationship, but more due to that it if she did continue with him, she had to leave which meant leaving the kids.

I am now extremely worried that she is headed into a depression and nihilistic state.
Because she is such a practiced liar, i cant expect she will tell me the truth as to her mental state and whether she is considering any self harm.

The last thing i want is for my kids to come home and see W in a hurt state, whatever that might be.
I want to implore to her that whatever she currently thinks of me, that for her kids sake (who she really does love), that it is imperative that if she is thinking of any self harm, that she gets help, tells someone even if its not me. That her health and mental health are the first priority. Our marriage issues cant even be start to be explored until she is in a healthier mental state, to be able to make sound judgments and decisions, especially as they affect our kids.

She sees her Pyschologist tomorrow, but she just doesn't ever tell anyone the whole truth about how she is feeling and what the real state of her mental health is, so i cant trust in that she will be upfront with her Pysch.

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give as to how i can raise this with her without seeming like the perceived manipulation that she thinks i am trying to do to her?

[Betternow]

Hi Pants

You've been through a heck of a lot of emotional ups and downs. I admire your resilience. Reading your posts it is quite obvious to me that your determination to get your life sorted is starting to pay dividends.

I'm sorry to read that your wife is slipping into a funk. She's quit that online fantasy life now. She may be feeling embarrassed and possibly ashamed of her online adventures, that could help explain her low mood. Some of these fantasy adventures feel very real to some people who become convinced they are an alternative reality. Now that part of her life has blown up, she may have an emotional hangover.

If you think that could be true, it may be better to leave her alone on this matter and see how she is feeling when she returns from her appointment with the psychologist.

[Praeteritus_braccas]

Hi BN, Thank you, you're right no doubt.

Everything i do and say to her is just toxic anyway. But I wont be able to forgive myself if she does do something and i didn't ask. that is the conundrum.

Additionally, what i cant reconcile is, why i am the one who has to tiptoe around W's emotional state like im walking on eggshells. Yet everything i do, every little minor action is judged by her. "you agressively packed the childrens lunch" in fact i just did it quickly because we were running late. This kind of judgement from her seems completely ridiculous.

She is the one who has had the affair and hasn't even apologised, not even for the complete disregard and neglect for our children, let alone the violation to our marriage. (gosh i sound like a teenager).

What has occured to me is that she is more upset about this online love lost (real to her), than she is about the fact she had this affair at all. She doesn't really even seem to show any shame or remorse. I accept that she may very well feel it as she tells me she hides her pain and doesnt show it to other people, but i would be a right tail between the legs if i had done what she had done.

Im slowly coming to realise that there simply isnt any love left in side for me after all these years. If there is, its buried so deep and polarised by this fantasy. Whether or not it is a fantasy, our love has been eroded, and Im aware that i have a part in that as well to answer for for issues that have gone without being worked on as a couple.But then i think im just taking some of the blame for her decisions.

Even though we are at these early days, my hope was she would wake up and realise the complete ridiculousness of it, however now i think wont happen at all, and even if she does wake, she will just realise she is no longer in love with me anyway.

I have lost my wife, and i didnt even know she was being stolen, or that i was missing the mark.

I have decided that even if we were to work through all of this, if there is no love there for me from my wife, and i mean that love you feel in your soul that without it, hurts you like migraine, then it wont matter. it will be the end and then i will move on as painful as that will be.

I'm so exhausted, physically and mentally, that my brain cant settle in the afternoons, and seems to want to go overdrive at 3am.

For the record, i really appreciate the feedback, hearing other peoples views really seems to give me some comfort.

[Praeteritus_braccas]

The W had her Pysch appt today, not talked about other than to ask how I feel about giving her some space for a couple of nights over the weekend.

Im still waiting to have the conversation as to that means.

I'm worried that she will ask me to leave the house so she canf feel at home without the anxiety (me).

This means that she would be home with the kids and im going to what, have to leave to twiddle my thumbs stressing about how she will be staying up all night not resting, not have the energy for the kids.

As the one who had the affair, who made choices to prioritise her online lover over her kids, I really feel if she wants space she should leave. I dont see why I have to be the one who basically is getting kicked out.

I feel like this is a line that should be drawn in the sand.

I dont know what to do, but we havent actually had the conversation yet.

I would love peoples thoughts???

🙏

[Praeteritus_braccas]

So last night W asked me to leave for the weekend.

Tells me that she feels nothing but fear of being around me because she is afraid to talk to me. I have been absolutely calm, respectful, approachable. But with her obsession about who she currently thinks i am she only sees a bad guy.

After we talked, and i explained that it seems that is not reasonable for me to leave for the whole weekend for her to have space and to be with the kids.

I explained that last weekend (prior to confronting her about the affair) she was so unfunctional, and i had concerns about her ability to be able to be able to put the children's needs first above her own. W spent the whole previous weekend avoiding her own kids.

W then got passive aggressive and then abusive, tells me that the affair has nothing to do with her current feelings about being afraid of me. She then yelled at me once i cracked when i rose my voice. I tried my best but after an hour of this abuse, i couldnt help it.

She then proceeds to tell me she has been afraid of me for the last 5 years! That she has been living in constant fear. This doesnt make any sense, we have had the most amazing moments, intimacy and what i thought were genuine connections.

I dont know if this is the real truth or a manipulation to now make me get out of the house, because on the basis that she feels this way, i dont want to engender that feeling in her.

A friend thinks that W is now trying to play the role of the victim here, that her experience of being the perpetrator is so alien to her and challenges her core identity that she is trying to shift back from being the perpetrator to the victim. the more i show my heartbreak, my empathy for her, that she pushes harder to be the victim, then provoking me and then retreating back in fear when im not able to withstand her abuse, her gaslighting.

It seems like she is trying to quarantine the affair entirely to assuage her conscience.

So, Im still left with the conundrum, so i leave to help her reduce her fear and anxiety, miss out on my kids? I cant force her to leave.

We are trapped. and we cant move in any direction until couples counselling which has at least been brought forward to the 25th.

would love anyone's insights.

thanks in advince

P77.

[Betternow]

It seems like your wife is exhibiting a standard reaction to shame and embarrassment and that reaction is blame shifting.
She can’t deal with the responsibility for her behaviour so she alters the narrative to cast you as the central problem. Playing the victim card is common also.

Is it possible that you could take the children and get away for couple of nights? Book an Air BnB cottage in the country an hour or two away from home. It might give you some clear air and the kids might appreciate a change of atmosphere.

I’m also wondering if you believe you no longer love your wife and her attitude doesn’t seem to be changing, should you be considering a formal separation sooner rather than later.

I know from experience that living in a tense household with passive aggressive behaviour on display can wear you out emotionally and physically pretty quickly. Sometimes situations like yours can be resolved quicker when all parties enjoy some space.

Anyway, keep throwing out your thoughts. Good luck.

[Praeteritus_braccas]

Thanks BN for your comments.

It really made think about it,.

Sadly I do love her,, is so deep in my DNA I can't switch it off no matter what happens.

W finally reached out to me on Friday after after she had a panic attack herself and spoke to probably the first voice of reason she has had. She sent me a long message which agreed to:

• stop work and prioritise her health and rest
• Stop shaming me about my past.
• agree to de-escalate the situation.
• Be able to co exist in the house peacefully, for the sake of the kids.
• agree to genuinely engage in the couples counselling.
• Agree that our long talks are no longer productive.
• She agreed that we should save all that for the counselling.

Later when we were home, I saw a .... glimmer ... of the wife I knew when we talked in person.

We both a greed if the worst was to happen we would not want to tear the kids away from the other parent, because we can both see how much the kids love each of us. So we agreed we would not try to undermine the other parent

The problem is, with the chronic lying, how do I know I'm not just not being set up?

she has finally had 3 full nights sleep, I dont wan to buy into it yet, but the concept of hope is so alluring, yet so dangerous.

I had a huge anxiety attack today at the park with the kids . I barely got through it, but eventually calmed down.

Im find each day harder not easier as the limbo continues........

Still can't eat much, so I'm trouble for that as well.

[Betternow]

Sounds like a ray of sunlight is making its way through to you. I’m glad.

I hope you’ve got a couple of tactics to deal with your panic attacks. I’ve experienced them too, had a small one this morning in the supermarket.

Your fears about being set up because of her history of deceit are reasonable but you’ll have to manage that risk against the potential reward of getting your real wife back. I think it’s a good idea to set a couple of relationship goals. They can be private, not shared with your wife.

For example, set a date, say Christmas 2020. If my wife stays faithful and there are no more behavioural flare ups from her (or me) by that date, I will consider that a real encouraging achievement. Contrarily, if there is no improvement by the target date, I will undertake a trial separation.

I find that unless you have clear timelines and goals these relationship problems can limp on indefinitely and life is not meant to be a misery fest.

[Praeteritus_braccas]

Hi BN,

Thanks, Currently, I'm actually not concerned that W will have another affair or fidelity. She has admitted that the online affair was unhealthy and got in too deep, and I think that now knowing that her kids are on the line will keep her focused in that regard. I made it clear that if there was to be any other affairs (current or others) she had to leave. There was no middle ground. I know that she loves her kids, so any fault there will not end up well.

For me at the moment its the issue of whether W will genuinely work and engage in counselling. She says she will, but the laundry list of wrongs are going to be the W's issues. Issues we have been over many times in the past which i thought were resolved. As you said before, its the narrative that she is now setting up about all the times how W is unheard, unsupported etc to justify her compromising her own integrity and values.

I have no issue and actually welcome going through those in counselling, because if we can put closure to them then perhaps we can work through it. Im just a leaf on the wind at the moment whilst my wife works through her issues.

But you are right, there does need to be some time frame around it. we have no framework until we get to counselling (25th), no idea what W will layout as she still believes that the the affair has nothing to do with our long term marriage issues. That is where the whole blame shifting and shaming is the issue.

The distance that my wife has put between us is so tangible and hurtful that its just hard every day to not reach out and do all the little things that people who are in love do, things that were so engrained in your behaviour you have to actively not do them, a touch on the back of the neck, the little shows of affection.

There are moments when we laugh together, and i immediately think, what is this? is it real, or her way of just being in the same room when she really feels she would be somewhere else.

The mental loop is driving me mad. I wish I could just shut my brain off.

As for the Panic attacks, i never had them before this whole marriage crisis. My PTSD and anxiety from that always manifested differently, so its something im learning to navigate. Basically mindfullness on overdrive is all i have really.

i have decided that if W cannot look forward instead of back, see the real me, and work out whether there is love still there for me, then i will make the choice myself to move on. i just dont know what my timeframe for that is

[Guest_3256]

Hi Pants_77 and welcome to the BB Forum.

"To confuse matters, when all this came about, i found out she is having an online relationship / emotional infidelity with a young 30 year old, who lives at home, no job, no commitments, no kids. complete online real time 24/7 unbridled support from the other side of the world. she now has feelings for this guy."

Please don't quote me on this; I believe that you have nailed it - it appears that your wife is projecting herself onto you, more appropriately, this is what we call devaluating and discarding someone as a person, picking at your flaws, or in simple terms - pretty much making you out to be a bad person so that she feels [less] guilty of her infidelity.

Or kind of like a very young child being disobedient and denying that they took the lollies from the lolly jar and blaming it on a sibling. Same thing - just childish behaviours, probably learnt from childhood. Infidelity is usually someone who is mentally unstable and cannot control their behaviours and emotions, it very similar to having an addiction. She needs to stop this immediately. Also - your wife may even make you think that you are an issue - you're not - this is about her, not you.

Anyways, this is a tough gig for anyone to experience - you must look after yourself and put yourself and the kids 1st. Anything that she says that hurts you or makes you feel bad/uncomfortable in anyway - that's abuse! I would recommend telling her very directly and clearly that her behaviour will no longer be tolerated, that you will no longer be her mental punching bag and that she will be taking responsibility for her actions and that she needs seek professional support to remediate her mental health conditions.

Your are not a bad person and your Wife isn't either - no one is perfect but she needs to know where things stand. Look after yourself and the kids, speak with support people such as family and friends. Keep your social connections well. Work on improving your mental and physical health. Beyond Blue have a fantastic team of councillors who are professional and very helpful.

Good luck buddy and remember that you are strong and what ever pathway you take moving forward, please look after yourself and the kids - at least you know who the most important people are.

Be strong, be great.