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Marriage, Gaslighting, conflict avoidance, Shame dumping and projection

Praeteritus_braccas
Community Member

In the last 5 weeks, my wife has laid an impossible amount of grievances at my feet, having only discussed it in depth 2 weeks prior and coming to the view that we were all good, especially considering this whole pandemic, working from home and with each other in the same business.

In short, my wife has decided that my many aspects of our 15 year relationship (7 years marriage) and best friends for 20 years, contain behaviours on my part that she has identified that are no longer acceptable. They include Manipulation, Emotional Abuse, Dominating, 'taking up all the oxygen', never taking the blame and much more. She now says that she has never been able to tell me the whole truth because she is terrified to talk to me. That she feels emotionally abandoned and unsupported. That there is deep resentment about specific events that go back 10 and 15 years.

I have PTSD from a deeply damaged childhood. I have had, and am having Counseling to work through my PTSD and behaviours that i know are difficult when im not at my best. My wife has a high anxiety all the time which is untreated. She avoids any conflict with anyone, not just me. We have known this about each other since the start, we have helped each other through our pain and built a life.

Within the last 5 weeks, we are now at crisis, my wife doesnt know whether she wants to be in the marriage anymore. My wife has chronic health issues, and we are both exhausted, both mentally and physically. We have agreed that we need to take the time to make a sound decision. not to rush into something that will rip our kids lives apart.

To confuse matters, when all this came about, i found out she is having an online relationship / emotional infidelity with a young 30 year old, who lives at home, no job, no commitments, no kids. complete online real time 24/7 unbridled support from the other side of the world. she now has feelings for this guy.

This has blown me out of the water to the point where my Anxiety is so pronounced i am taking serious Anti-Anxiety medication. I am in limbo until she decides what SHE wants.My Psychologist tells me its possible that i am being gas-lighted, shame dumped and she is blame shifting. She has never accepted any responsibility for anything, there is always a reason for her decisions and poor behaviour.

I continue to defend her position, to say she must be right, im the one who has failed. My Psych. says that I'm carrying an unfair burden.

I have never felt so worthless as a human.


42 Replies 42

Hi pants

Being decisive doesn’t come natural for some, having PTSD indeed, any other mental illness can make such decision making quite hazy.

Living in hope when the changes required by your wife is unrealistic, is imo a form of self inflicted hurt. This evolves from fear of future guilt eg if you’re accused later of not helping her through what is proven to be an addiction.

To counter this cycle of thinking I suggest what is missing here is self assurance in what you know is best for you personally. Reading through your replies it’s almost like your feelings, your rights, are not as important as the possibility of her making forgivable mistakes.

If this is confusing we’ll even in a marriage when things fall apart- charity begins at home eg self protection must begin to override obligations to a cheating partner. If this does not take place then your focus is unrealistic and potentially much more hurtful as time goes on without any change in behaviour from your wife.

I had a partner once, step mum to my then 12yo daughter. My daughter left her dirty clothes in her floor. My partner swore at her and threw the clothes at her in anger. We had a meeting next day. My daughter apologised. When I asked my P to say sorry she diverted to other issues. I repeated reminded her that she swore and threw clothes at her. She kept diverting. After 20 minutes of this I realised our relationship was over. All because of dishonesty- she couldn’t own it. You can’t fight to get standards from other people that is at a minimum level. Gaslighting for example comes natural for some but you don’t have to tolerate it. Wrong is wrong is wrong.

I hope counseling helps you, but counseling only helps the willing- willing to stop unacceptable behaviour, willing to put family first, willing to (if she believes the marriage is doomed) to seek mature co decision making to separate and sort out finances and child access etc

She must be “willing”. If not then you should take control of your situation more- rather than remaining in limbo. Moving forward whatever direction that becomes, is better that the alternative- moss doesn’t grow on a rolling stone.

Thankyou BTW for answering all replies.

TonyWK

Thank you therising. The one compass I had for some unknown reason growing up was that I knew I was in toxic destructive world. That I didnt want to be anything like the people and community I was in. They were nothing more than an example of who not to be. But ultimately one cannot love through that without wearing some of those stripes.

Mostly my stress manifested in other ways. I put it all into my sport, and achieved a reasonable level of success being fueled by such deep emotion and adrenaline.

I decided to see a psychologist. I couldn't stop feeling angry about the past and I didn't want to repeat the cycle and pass that onto my baby on the way. BTW that was purely my own decision without and prompting.

As a child, I went from being abused at home, to being abused at school daily from the age of 5 till I was 17. There was no respite.

When I was 17 I had what until recently (now 42) was the worst year of my life. Thats a story in itself.

But im only realising now that one of my engrained behaviours is a directly threat response from the abuse from my mother growing up, compounded by the constant attacks everywhere I went.

My only defence was my intellect and brain as a child and young teenager. The ability to bring logic to an argument which was based in stripping me down, taking power from me to suit who ever it was. If got 'too clever' it was met with more vitriol and abuse. It wasn't until I left that town, went to university that it all stopped.

Until now, despite me journey for personal growth, it was actually my wife who pointed out that my mother was my abuser. I think i knew it deep down but avoided acknowledging it for a long time.

Its this automatic response that I have to criticism that creates tension in my marriage. Its the reason why my wife says now she can't tell me the honest truth about how she is feeling, what her issues are, why she feels unheard and emotionally abandoned and why she went seeking support elsewhere, online, why her actions are justified.

I have worked for the last 11 years on my responses, sometimes I drop the ball and don't react well. I stumble. It takes a huge amount of mindfulness to stem the fear of attack. I thought i was going well, that I had developed new sense of safe harbour for both of us, but part of the blame shifting was pointing out the times when I was at my weakest.i now think that W has been able to capilise on my damage. Knows how i get triggered....

Thank you white knight.

All your advise and everyone else's is amazingly on point.

This is so draining.

I guess that's why I'm desperate to get to counselling. I dont know what she is committed to because she doesn't.

But that doesn't happen until the 31st Aug.

I cant confront my wife about the affair without a professional to guide the discussion, the admission, if it comes, and see what comes of it. If I do it now, I think there will be absolutely zero chance. And if in that properly guided space, its clear that i need to make my own choice i will definitely do that. I have committed to that for my daughters.

For now its limbo, living a false imitation of our life. I know its fake, she knows as well.

We have agreed not to make a rash decision, to see what she is willing to commit to.

🙏🙏🙏🙏

Hi P77 (high five to Tony WK with everything you said! SO well put)...

Information is POWER P77. Zero need for panic, time for realisations.

Tony has HIT the nails so many times. The Brave Knight rides again lol.

P77, it's AWESOME you Googled some of those terms, I apologise for the shock but you'll be grateful later.

I have more, since you've written more... the "buy back phase" in Domestic Violence and abuse.
Ws affair comes under a few... "sexual abuse", "psychological abuse" and "emotional abuse".

In some states in the U.S. 'evidence of affairs' could get you the lot, all the assets and the kids 100%.

Not here. Family Law here doesn't give a hoot about affairs... pretty reflective of some Australian's morals IMHO. No evidence is required. You could tick a box of those abuses citing many things when it comes to lodging in Court. But ALL they care about is splitting the assets and splitting the care % of the children, then out. Next!

And there's "covert or coercive control" in DV.

By "Counselling" do you mean Marriage Counselling? I think it's a total waste of time, W lied to you... it's not far fetched to predict W will lie in Counselling. Abusers LOVE to blame the victims for all their behaviours. IF the Counsellor lays complete blame for Ws affair on you, leave. Some Counsellors do this and are part of the "Reconciliation Industrial Complex". Awful.

I'd get serious and book Mediation, like yesterday. It takes SO LONG to get in. Tbh I believe that you booking this is the only chance of W reconciling (but I wouldn't trust her intentions anyway - that's me).

Please have a look at Chumplady.com
You will see W reflected there too in text book style... but also your reactions...
There's AWESOME understandings to learn there in Chump Nation.

It gave me lots of laughs through my tears back then.
The motto "Leave a cheater gain a life" is spot on.

EM

Im really blown away by all the advice, support and being able to look at it from the outside.

Im not prepared to just 'call it right now sorry.

I am going to commit to the couples counselling (with a clinical pyschologist).

If the lying doesn't surface of her own volition, I will get straight to the issue and wont beat around. Im getting advice from my own counsellor as how to best table that should it not come from her.

The more i look at it, the more i see how my wife has been over a period of around 12 months, this guy has been able to get into my wofes mind and lay out a framework of sympathy, abuse and slowly get my wofe to see all my actions as toxic, manipulative and abusive. Basically ro catfish her. If i told you what he has fed her to trigger the sympathy and empathy in my wife it would blow you away. Even if his story is true, he has perfectly drawn my wife in.

The question remains as to why my wife felt tas to why it was easy to lean into that, which she bluntly has laid on me as my fault.

Don't get me wrong, I accept she has made this choice, and I WILL take my power, my choices back.

I no longer see the fate of our marriage as being in her hands, that i have to prove myself to her. It is actually in my hands as to what I will accept, what I am prepared to work through and what I'm prepared to let my children be exposed to as a parent.

If i see my wife genuinely seeing this for what it is, genuinely being honest, and genuinely commit to working through her own traumas (which o havemt discussed her yet) and genuinely commit to the next version of our marriage, i will equally commit to that.

As soon as I get the sense that none of that is there, I will call it immediately.

I feel much calmer today.

I feel like i have options.

I feel can exist without her.

Praeteritus_braccas
Community Member

I can't believe what has happened today.

She is there talking to me when she finally gets out of bed at 10.30, telling me about her 2 dreams about being sexually assaulted last night

We unpack that based on her own narcissist mothers needs and her own sexual abuse which has gone without being raised, treated in any way. She has had to hide it to protect her mother's feelings for over 30 years.

Then tells me sheafter that she tells me she had another sexual assault dream straight afterwards.

..?..

Then immediately proceeds to talk to me about American literature and she couldn't believe I had read the play that she is reading, as she is in fact more well read than I am, well some areas anyway. We end up discussing the various literature we have both read.

All these conversations are started by her, I know they are gap fillers. A facade.

She Tells me she went to sleep last night at a decent time, but was up to 2am again, thinks that i have no idea.
She is not able to function. Won't take her sleep meds at night so she can get to sleep. She Is off having a nap right now (3-5pm)...

I don't know if I can hold out revealing i know about about the ongoing affair for another 3 weeks until the couples counselling.

Late in the day appears to be my weakest..

Sorry, I'm just.... venting I guess

Vent away, it's your thread and you can pour anything out in it as long as it's within the guidelines.

How I see it (from an online distance lol) is that you are now deceiving W.
You are not being honest about what you know, that Ws affair is still going on.

I've no idea to what purpose but it's your "marriage" so it's your call... myself being observant of the core of marriage vows as fidelity... I consider you're no longer married anyway IMO.

But the saying "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me" comes to mind.
All of Ws behaviours are referenced in italics above... atm she is rug-sweeping. But so are you.

Are you afraid to tell W that you know the affair is continuing and you KNOW about it?

I'm finding it hard to follow but then again here, it's not my marriage lol.

From my observations of mine and other marriages involving a cheating spouse, the ONLY way W will come out of the affair fog is for you to lodge in Mediation. Tbh I doubt W will come out of the fog even then.

I guess in a way YOU are in the marriage fog and W is in the affair fog.
Yes I agree, a facade, this would be a difficult time for you to keep up the facade.
W seems to have zero issue with same.

EM

Hi EM,

Thank you for the candid advice. Please for a moment don't think I'm not taking it on board. you raise a good point that I am deceiving her by not revealing that I know what's really going on. This hurts me at my soul, I always try to be an genuine person as best I can. So for me to have to partake in this charade does not suit with me all.

I'm trying to follow the advice of all the objective people around me. but as I said I don't want to make a decision rashly and look back later and go F. I wish I did that differently. Kids are on the line here.

Ill outline my reasons why.

  1. Speaking to a family lawyer on Friday, she advised that my goal in order to protect my parenting rights as the primary carer is to document everything in doing for the children. Because my wife is so exhausted (genuinely from health conditions) and from her middle of the night and all day online fantasy romance, I've been doing those roles anyway, so the longer I perform those roles, the better placed I am when it comes to determining the primary carer role.Ive already got the evidence of the affair, (ongoing) so that is there.
  2. At the moment, I don't have a sound and respectful way to bring this up without it just falling apart and going bad. I'm seeing my psychologist on Tuesday to discuss whether I raise it now, and how, what framework should I use. I want to be calm, considered and show her that I am strong without her.
  3. W is so convinced of her being manipulated by me, that she was pushed to have this affair, that me raising it without objective and independent support, will just be seen through the negative / toxic glasses she has on. Flushing it out in counselling means that our counsellor, who can be objective can ask the hard questions, can be the one to get to the truth. It's not this fiction of her husband trying to manipulate her further than she already thinks she is.
  4. I would have raised it already, except that we just cannot get a couples session until the end of the month.
  5. If the psychologist thinks it's better to raise it this week, and I get a framework to do it, I will. I will also be prepared with legal advice.

I know these probably seems clean cut looking in from the outside, but my wife is convinced of who she thinks I am, of the reasons she is saying she can't talk to me. It's important, for me, that I demonstrate genuinely that it's not the case.

W is still a person, and despite her actions, I can still be respectful and considered.

Praeteritus_braccas
Community Member

Confronted W today. I couldnt wait a y longer. Also was a risk as I couldn't sleep last night at all and decided it was time.

6 hour long chat while the kids were at school.

She admitted to the affair immediately. I admitted I had seen all the messages including this mornings, including his manipulaton from him saying he was thinking of suicide if she pulled away from him. (professional Help was recommended to this guy in case it was actaully true for the record)

In short, Essentially I explained that I wont compete with online BF. That if she needed this in her life, she had to leave, she couldn't have me and the kids. That if this dalliance was something that was more important then she was free to leave. Given the choice of him or the kids she decided immediately it had to end.

In short, she ended the online affair and removed herself from that whole community, blocked the guy on all platforms, email and phone. He got angry and at face value told him it over forever.

Long story short is that she will committ to couples counselling,still weeks away.

Im not holding out hopes for it to work, but hopefully with her now getting some sleep and rest, she can start to function as a human again.

Praeteritus_braccas
Community Member

Hi All,

I am going to move this thread into the family section.

Thanks again to EM and Tony WN for all your input.

Thanks

P77