My wife isn't the least bit interested in sex and I am taking it personally. Should I?

[Steven1]

Hey guys. I am hoping I am not the only guy in this boat... my wife never wants to have sex with me. We are still relatively young (I am 30 and she is 29) and we have been married 4 years, been together about ten. We used to have a pretty active sex life but it has gone dormant since we had kids about 3 years ago. She always says she is tired and makes excuses like she can't be bothered or other trivial things. And she never comes on to me. I always have to initiate it and I feel rejected and horrible when she knocks me back.

Being depressed and having low self esteem probably makes it seem worse, but I take it pretty badly being knocked back and going without sex for months. I feel maybe she isn't attracted to me or in love with me anymore but she denies this. I don't know what to think anymore. Any thoughts anyone?

[DeepBreath]

Hey SubduedBlues.

Hindsight exists to help those who haven't been there yet.

We've had some frank and honest discussions about all of that. Damn I was offended when she suggested outsourcing sex and affection rather than extending herself. I've asked those questions directly though (do you want to see other people? Do you want someone to join us? Male? Female?). I take some consolation in the openness of our discussion - but it doesn't solve the problem.

[DeepBreath]

Hey Jacko,

Really appreciate the response.

Elaborating on what I do to reduce tension:
- Avoid any approaches, hugs, affection, suggestion or discussion of sex
- Provide plenty of massage and drawing a clear boundary that it's not sexual (most days)
- Go to lengths to make sure I never show the slightest sign of sexual frustration (apart from occasional boilovers every three months or so when I hit a limit and can't not talk about it because I dip into a depression)
- Guide her through periods of immense stress (Study, work, stuff with the kids) where I have to absorb what can almost be described as panic attacks/manic episodes. It's tough, but I wear it because she needs the support. This will happen probably once a month. In bad patches 2 or 3 times in a week.
- Push her to go and see/hang out with her friends, see her family. Happy to look after kids to enable as much of this as she wants. (She's incredibly social)

Basically all the stuff that I think a supportive partner should do. The fact my (sexual) needs aren't being acknowledged makes it really hard. The sleeping with other people suggestion was not a throwaway comment. It was after a very strained patch in which she felt it was the only 'logical' option left.

We hard a very raw discussion two days ago - after I posted above. She asked me what I actually want. I responded with: I want to be touched, loved, physcial affection both sexual and non-sexual, sex approx once a week is what my sex drive is at, etc. She told me point blank that I'm just not going to get what I want.

We went through what a lot of her blockers are (her mum left her dad for this reason; she had some horrible relationships and especially early when we were seeing each other we frequently had sex because she was scared I would leave her). This summation of it all is that sex just is not a priority, not a drive for her. She doesn't lust for others, she doesn't lust for me. (ouch).

But - in the interest of mental health. I've done a lot of meditation and exercise in those two days. This helped a lot, as well as the open conversation It's weird to have a relationship that so honest and open, but so void of affection and physical intimacy.

[Guest_986]

Fellow thinkers,
I spent almost half an hour reading through some of the messages left on this situation, and it is astonishing how many men find themselves stuck here, and the effect it has on his ego.
Steven1, your honesty on such a touchy subject is a credit to you - well done!
The underlying message here was the communication lapse between the two, and what the best way to make her feel loved is.
Im intrigued as to what was the outcome? It has since been almost 2 years, has anything changed? Did you find the counselling sessions beneficial in the long term?

My thoughts are with you and your family

[SubduedBlues]

I think hindsight exists for those that have had and lost. And we wonder if we had said/done something different how things may have turned out different.

Sorry if I upset you with my previous message, it was not my intent.

Not everyone attributes intimacy to sex. I think you may need to find out how to be intimate with her without sex. Only then might you find yourself in a position to lead her back to it.

[Apollo_Black]

DB she's pretty much told you to give up trying and tolerate the situation, i.e.: no sex. Which naturally is of course, quite confronting. Mine did the same to me. It's supposed to be an attraction issue. So, if she's not attracted to you then she's not going to want to have sex with you. But there's no many variables which offset this, such as past critical moments in the relationship (like bad stuff that's gone down that hasn't been dealt with), history of sexual abuse in previous relationships, etc.

I think you mentioned you've done quite a bit of research on this subject. Are you aware or have you read the resources I mentioned? If not, they are quite revealing. It sounds like you need to take the red pill. Google it. I can't remember if you are married or had kids but - it sounds like she did the old bait and switch. Lots of sex to suck you in then nothing. Or like I said there's an unhealthy sexual history on her part, or her hormones are out of whack, or she's seeing someone else, or some other mental issue. You say she's incredibly social but you have to push her to do things? Blow ups once a month sounds like hormones. But from what you've described you're doing too much beta stuff. STOP. Cut out the massages for starters. Stop talking about sex. Focus on you for the meantime.

If you're married, got kids, hurting bad, and want more from your marriage get help with it. That's why I suggest Athol's books to at least get you thinking about why this might be happening (I mean you might as well stop doing what's not working and try something else). The thing is, once you take the red pill you can't undo it. You might not be able to rectify your situation (i.e.: get what you want from your current marriage), but you can prepare yourself, better yourself and get into position for a better life with someone who will meet your needs.

[Apollo_Black]

I'd also Google "The family alpha"

[aegidius]

Had this situation with first wife in mid 20's. She was in total denial that there was even a problem, and managed to find more than one counsellor-type who agreed with her position. Religious hangups no doubt contributed, but when you're in love to try to accommodate and you think all things are possible... After two years of honest effort to even get my point of view heard, I walked. It did leave me with some pretty warped ideas about women, relationships and myself - fortunately I was able to have better relationships since. I've stopped beating myself up about it eventually too, 40+ years on...

[Apollo_Black]

Agree with aegidius. You can try and fix things but if they don't work sometimes you have to walk. I hope you had better progress with subsequent relationships.

in the future I'll be quite clear about sex, it's importance and high frequency. It'll be more than once a week that's for sure.

[Flying_daddy]

For me the writing was on the wall years before kids and marriage but loyalty kept me here. 13 years on her excuses are still just that and I'm at breaking point. Staying at home looking after the kids. Lack of sleep and no one to talk to makes me volatile and less forgiving. Anger is through the roof but I need to contain it for the sake of our kids.

It's no consolation but an interesting insight, but for whatever reason there is a book in our house called The Secret Language of Birthdays which I have recently reopened. I'm not one for astrology but this book is frighteningly accurate, possibly due to it being based on research rather than reading stars. And there it was in plain english: "career dedicated" and "emotionally blocked" amongst other accuracies. As I said, it's no consolation but if anyone here would like to amuse themselves and dig a little deeper into their other half's (or your own) character. I wasn't amused as i've lost my sense of humour but I hope it can help someone understand their partner or yourself. My disclaimer though, I found it accurate but you may not.

[DeepBreath]

Hey Apollo Black,

Thanks for the post. You've covered a bunch of thoughts I've had at various times. Let me give an update to everyone for the sake of the board and to actually bring a bit of positivity to this place. I took a lot of your advice before I read your post, if that makes sense. I posted here in a moment of despair, but have spent a lot of this year working on putting myself first and making myself happy.

Since I had the last direct, open honest flare up argument with my wife her whole demeanour has changed. We've really made sex and intimacy different things.

But here's what I'm realising it boils down to: most of the people in this deep hole that I've been in so many times feel that "I would be so much happier if I had the sex and intimiacy in my life that I deserved". I was verbally slapped by a business mentor of mine when I said as much about a work scenario. he said to me "WRONG ORDER! You will get what you deserve (sales, promotions, opportunities) if you make yourself happy! People respond to confidence, intruige and excitement and run from neediness. So make yourself happy, get excited and interestied in your work again and you'll be amazed at what comes your way"

This bolded part was a massive reminder that you can do exactly the same action on two different occasions, with different motivation and mindset and have a completely outcome.

The discussions on here and with my wife have helped a lot. And being reminded of this stuff was great. I just spent a week away with my wife and kids, and instead of being resentful and hurt for the whole trip I'd spent a few days planning and working out a bunch of other (non sex) stuff in life that I wanted. Not status crap like money and job offers, but things that are genuinely fun and thrilling. My wife and I were genuinely intimate for the whole trip. It was amazing. It's what I've been missing and craving - and pursuing it directly turns out to be the very worst way of getting it.

Last night I tried to initiate sex with her and instead of shutting me down she tried to go with it for a while and then said "look I'm sorry - my mind is just racing. I can't get into it. If you were doing all of this two hours ago it would have worked but right now I just can't stop my mind racing. I'm so sorry.".

Then she said "Look - I know that's really crap for you. Really hard for you and I'm really sorry."

And for some reason - I really didn't mind.