Is depression a natural reaction to an insane world?

[Unbeliever]

This is a thought I have been pondering for a while.

The default to view depression as "something wrong", or a "brain chemical imbalance" or as "a disease" or something that "needs to be fixed" or requires "medication" or "therapy" appears to be the most common response of practically everyone. 

From doctors, to psychiatrists, to therapists, to the general population, to the depressed individuals themselves... the universal belief appears to be that "the person needs to get help".

But what if... the living in depressed state is correct? What if it isn't an "imbalance" or isn't something "wrong"? What if being depressed is the only natural state to be in for an intelligent, empathetic, compassionate, informed, thinking individual to exist in the current state of our world?

What if to NOT be depressed about is the true indication of mental sickness?

I'm not saying that being depressed is fun in any way... most people on this forum would be well aware that it sucks. But that is not what I'm saying. 

What I mean is... could existing in a state of depression be completely natural for someone living in a place where so many things are obviously terrible... both on a personal level and in the world as a whole?

My reasons for this perspective are numerous. Far too many to write in only 2500 words. But basically...

The real world is an extremely depressing place for any person that cares at all about anything outside of themselves.

Eg. If you care about animals... the reality is many beautiful species are already lost forever, many others are so close to the verge of extinction that even if everyone worldwide decided to do everything they could to save them... they would still be lost. At home there are people that still buy people animals as christmas gifts, refuse to desex their pets, the massive amount of pets put down in pounds annually. There is backyard animal cruelty, the dog racing industry using live bait, shooting race horses with legs, women's hormonal treatments for menapause, the meat industry, birds choking on our plastic half a world away, overfishing. The list goes on and on.

It is reality and it is depressing. Care about animals and feeling "depressed" about it IS correct. And that is one tiny subject in a plethora of subjects.

3 billion people in starving poverty, the water wars, religious fanatics, corrupt governments, womens rights violations, slavery, wars, child rape, etc etc

It's the people that are not depressed that worry me.

[Unbeliever]

bigstar,
I don't want to turn this thread into a debate between you and me. I designed it for a purpose (for people to think about things that are usually just commonly accepted with no real thought). The thread is meant to inspire alternative perpectives of accepted topics. You give yours, I give mine... discuss. Not whatever this is.

I said that brains are different, they experience things differently and so scans are different. "Suicide" was not the topic because then I would have used examples of not depressed "brains" types that do this act... of which there are many.

Parkinsons/diabetes show significant brain tissue degeneration. MRI's of "depressed" brains are looking for blatant physical reasons (like tumors or cancers) and now studies are looking for structural abnormalities... using hypothesis and theory. Some studies have claimed differences in sufferers but what they are seeing and what it means? Could be a result of over use of anti-depressants for all they know (Hence the ongoing research). Therefore I used "proof" with "bunny ears", the studies are still ongoing and to reveal any significant conclusions. That is why in the articles they are covered in words like "possibly" and "potentially" (despite article headlines).

The chicken thing is a result of the flaw with humans attempting to define anything. Eg. Biologists find a new animal, it doesn't quite fit into any catagory. So they have a choice, expand the definition to include it... or create an entirely new catagory. Whatever they decide... in doesn't have anything to do with the animal itself, it just is. It's OUR definition that changes, but reality remains the same. The creature that laid the first chicken egg? What humans classify it as is utterly immaterial. Technically, a dinosaur laid the 1st chicken egg... or the 1st animal that left the ocean to lay its eggs on land with the first hardened shells.

There is always a reason for depression. Otherwise it would go against the whole MRI scan thing YOU mentioned. I wont bother explaining this one.

Lastly, the definition of "inexorable" is... "impossible to stop or prevent". That YOU would claim this on a depression forum is what makes no sense. Why bother with meds? Or psychiatrists? Why are the BB advisors even bothering to help people if "suffering is impossible to prevent or stop"?

Even the name of this site is "Beyond Blue"... indicating that there IS something "beyond" (more than) the suffering.

[Brunswick]

Actually, I think Beyond Blue is referring to the notion that depression is beyond sadness (=being blue). Not that this helps the discussion on any way, lol.

[Brunswick]

I agree with you. I too suffer from depression but this topic got me to thinking about how much comedy stemed from finding the world an insane place. And how many smart people are actually often chronically and clinically depressed.

Perhaps recognising that there's nothing irrational about our depression can move us to do something more positive than dwelling on our misery.

[Unbeliever]

You're right. It could be interpreted in both ways.

Interesting, one addresses recovery and looking beyond a life of depression and the other addresses the general populations common thinking of depression just standard sadness... I wonder which one it is.

But like you said. It doesn't really matter.

[Unbeliever]

What about society that disappoints me so much?

Oh I don't know... is it that we collectively thought Steve jobs was a great man, even though when we knew he made billions off the backs of children?
Or maybe it's that it feels like all our heros are counterfeit. The world itself is just one big hoax. Spamming each other with our burning commentary of bullshit masquerading with insight. Our social media faking as intimacy.
Or is it that we voted for this? Not with our rigged elections, but with our things, our property, our money.
I'm not saying anything new, we all know why we do this. Not because Hunger Games books makes us happy, but because we want to be sedated. Because it's painful not to pretend, because we're cowards.

I see all this potential and I see it squandered. We're the middle children of history. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War is a spiritual war….our Great Depression is our lives.
We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars... but we won't and people like you and me are slowly learning this fact.

Do you know what a duvet is? You may say it's a comforter. It's a blanket, just a blanket. Now why do people like you and me know what a duvet is? Is this essential to our survival? in the hunter-gatherer sense of the word? No.
What are we then? Consumers... we are by-products of a lifestyle obsession. Murder, crime, poverty, these things don't concern me. What concerns me are celebrity magazines, television with 500 channels, some guys name on my underwear.

Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance.
Choose fixed interest mortage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fabrics.
Choose DIY and wondering who you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing junk food into your mouth.
Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, messed up brats you spawned to replace yourself.

Choose your future. Choose life.

[Unbeliever]

I didn't write any of the words in the above post, and yet when I first heard each of them... they spoke directly to the boy in me that had been plagued with thoughts like these and much more since I was still in primary school.

It makes me wonder what 8 year old kids are thinking about these days... which so much more access to information.

I can't believe that I was the only one, and there must be more kids like I was back then now these days.

[blondguy]

Hey UB

I am replying to you from Demonblasters thread of that okay

Thankyou for explaining what you did to me. I am going to read the the forum guidelines and have see if I have missed anything...which is more than likely 🙂

Now I am here on your thread...its easier to post. Our opinions about depression and whether or not it has a partial chemical trigger is not really that important at this time.You are and have been helping out many people that are doing it really hard. Your life experience and heartfelt support is GOLD to the forums

I dont have a huge ego as a poster....just very appreciative of the TLC and input you provide UB

Thankyou for the info you provided on the other thread re posts

I hope you can call me Paul...if you wish...Blondguy is only a tag that I grabbed when I was in quicksand and trying to sign up in January 2016

Paul

[Unbeliever]

Paul,

I will attempt to remember your name in future. However, I should warn you that I am TERRIBLE with names (always been an issue with me... certainly never personal to anyone).

In a previous life I was a researcher by trade, specifically employed to try and seperate "facts from fiction" especially regarding information available online. It turned that I had quite a talent for it.

Soon after in my personal time I became somewhat obsessed with researching persistant myths that had survived inexplicably for generations and how they actually started in the first place with no basis but regardless became "common knowledge". To be honest, I found it an extremely facinating subject.

For example...

Swimming within 30 minutes of eating. No evidence, no known origin. There are no specific "skills" assigned to the "left or right hemisphere" of the brain. We do not only use 10% of our brain. The bible never mentions "3 wise men". The Great Wall of China can't be seen from space. Toilets do not flush in the opposite directions in the northern or southern hemisphere. Einstein did not "fail maths". Humans only have "5 senses" (we have at least 21). Drinking milk does not "increase mucous (with flu or otherwise). Bats are not "blind"(their eyesight is decent). Goldfish do not have a 3-10 second memory (more than 3 months). Sugar does not cause hyperactivity in children. Bulls are not "angered" by red (they are colorblind). Hair and nails do not keep growing after death. Captain Cook did not "discover" Australia (he was a lieutenant). Kangaroo does not mean "I do not know what you are saying" in Aboriginal language. Slaves did not build the pyramids. Lightning does strike the same place twice (often in fact). Most oxygen on Earth comes from oceanic algae and moulds (not trees). Shaving does not increase "thickness" nor does pulling grey hairs create more surrounding grey hairs. It was pretty common knowledge that the Earth was round worldwide by about 330bc (flat Earth theory was long outdated by then). Sharks do get cancer (and brain deterioration). Glass has "liquid-like" properties (it doesn't). Police do not wait 24 hours to start searching for "missing persons" and undercover cops to not have to be honest if asked whether they are police".

... the list goes on and on and on (you would not believe).

This is also how I found out about "chemical imbalances" in the brain. No test, no agreement between scientists or psychologists (ever), no complete studies even.

[Unbeliever]

Paul (Blondeguy),

I was thinking about something you wrote in your post after I woke up... so I am responding.

I am a strange one. I'm not sure exactly what my motivations ever were to join this site initially or when I ever write on this website. I've never considered it could be to do with "ego"... perhaps it is.

I've never felt overly desperate for someone to listen to me. I didn't think that I would come here and find anyone who could "help" me or to find kindred spirits who thought in similar ways as I do. I didn't write to try and validate my thoughts or beliefs via others, or even to try and help others that are struggling.

You mentioned "TLC" and "heartfelt support". It's funny, I was never very good at those things in practise.

I've never felt comfortable telling people "what they needed to hear" or little white lies intended to make things easier for them... it always seemed too disrespectful to them. If I had any kind of love or respect for a person I've always felt obligated to be as honest as I can and unfiltered as possible. This of course has some unique "pros" and some obvious "cons" when applied to the real world.

Everything I believe has a reason, has an origin. If it is a belief I believe in strong enough to share it to others as my opinion... then not one of those is something I believe because someone "told me" once or I saw it on the news or online or it is commonly accepted as true. This has never been enough for me.

Even things I may find interesting concepts, I still literally doubt everything until I can research it, find correlating evidence or test it out myself.

Until I do these things I remain an "unbeliever".

This of course has put me at odds with almost every group of people I have ever interacted with, even those whose core beliefs I may share. I have argued with atheists as much as I have theists, argued with environmentalists as much as I have industrialists. With vegetarians as much as I have carnivores. Simply because, many commonly accepted "truths" in even opposing groups... don't make sense. The more on the extreme side of an argument a person is the more blind they seem to become to everything else... until they are literally incapable of seeing it.

Of course, the result is still only that I have "my truths", not "THE truths" (I'm still working on it... waiting for new data).

It is my best attempt at genuine honesty, not just the regurgitated opinions of others blindly followed.

[Moonstruck]

I am intrigued Unbeliever. Just what are "your truths"....those things that you have proven beyond doubt?

are you really 100% sure of them? Has nothing unseen or as yet unproven ever touched your heart?

It must take up an awful lot of your time to "research, find correlating evidence or test out yourself" as you put it. do you ever take time out from these tasks to simply feel "joy"? Or do you have to "see, or prove" that joy even exists, before you allow yourself to experience it?